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ECMlink No closed loop, leans out dies, 1st startup

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93xsg

10+ Year Contributor
175
25
Jul 3, 2011
Sequim, Washington
1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
Vacuum and exhaust good visibly good, tight and all new. I don't have a boost leak tester.

2). Verified mechanical timing?
Yes

3). Verified base timing?
Verified CAS but i cant get idling long enough to set ignition timing.

4). Ignition system
COP or Stock Coil: Stock
Wire brand and Age: Oreillys 1 year
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NGK-BPR7ES/set to recommended factory gap

5). Motor health (Compression Test)
Not very relevant to my issue IMO, but i'll do one tomorrow and check plugs.

Cylinder 1:
Cylinder 2:
Cylinder 3:
Cylinder 4:

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
Idle Switch: Deleted? simulated thru ECMLink
Throttle Cable: Custom cable, but throttle fully closed with no gas applied.
TPS: Yes
BISS: S90 throttlebody

7). Compression ratio
7.8:1

8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
No

9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
No

10). Electrical system
Car off (not running): 12.2 volts
Car running: 14.3 volts

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure: 37
Injector Size (cc/min): FIC 650cc

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand: PLX hooked to EGR pin 15, narrowband sim thru LINK and set to MISC egr for plx wideband
Calibration Date: ??

13). Type of fuel
Type: 92 Octane
Percent of Ethanol: 10% i believe

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
Yes years ago, they don't seem to be available anymore.



Well, I've got my 1g started up finally, and my wideband wired in.
I believe I've got everything hooked up proper in V3 ECMLink.

I can't get the car to go into closed loop, or to stay running during idle. It will slowly lean out and lose RPM and die.

**I havent been able to set ignition timing, because I cant keep it idling**

Attached a few logs.
I tried lowering the deadtime, and increasing the lower hz values in MAFComp. (seemed to help) it idles higher and smoother at first.

S90 throttle body
-everything but TPS deleted
SMIM
650 FIC (30.9% global fuel) started at 210 deadtime
PLX wideband to EGR input, using 0-5v wideband and ECMLink narrowband sim. set to egr input
Fuel pressure MT 37 PSI

Any advice on how to get it into closed loop would be great. And also how to keep it running long enough to even go into closed loop!

When I rev it, she loves it and has 10-12 AFRs. I also saw the Front o2 finally move from .2v to .8v with a decent rev.
 

Attachments

  • log 1000 idle target.elg
    23.5 KB · Views: 15
  • log idle after changes comp and deadtime.elg
    31.6 KB · Views: 14
Last edited:
My current guess is your wideband is messed up/wired incorrectly or there is something wrong with your CAS. Your timing activity looks weird and stays constant while it usually hops around everywhere.
 
Thanks guys ill make a boost leak tester at home depot racing and try swapping out CAS. I have a green top sitting around.

I tried adjusting the CAS all the way left and right and it didn't affect timing.

I had the stock o2 (not sure if sensor was good) hooked up before wiring the wideband. It made no change to how it runs
 
Something is definitely wrong. MAF & TPS adjustments seems way too high. I'd also change your maxoct timing table to stock 2g settings.

What intake manifold?

 
Last edited:
It's an ebay intake manifold, I couldnt find a similar image on ebay currently.

I haven't had time to mess with it the last few days, I'm in the middle of moving.

I will replace my OpenLoopMaxOctane with the 2g chart. And 0 out my MafComp sliders.

Are you suggesting manually adjust the TPS? rather than using ECMLink adjustment?

Something is definitely wrong. MAF & TPS adjustments seems way too high. I'd also change your maxoct timing table to stock 2g settings.

What intake manifold?

 
It is always recommended that you "physically" adjust the TPS as close as possible and only use the Link adjustments for getting it to read 0 (.63v) and 100 (5.0v) although the WOT reading can be slightly short, at 98 or 99 and still be fine.
 
It's an ebay intake manifold, I couldnt find a similar image on ebay currently.

I haven't had time to mess with it the last few days, I'm in the middle of moving.

I will replace my OpenLoopMaxOctane with the 2g chart. And 0 out my MafComp sliders.

Are you suggesting manually adjust the TPS? rather than using ECMLink adjustment?
If you can manually adjust the tps, I’d do that.
I was referring to your timing table. It’s way too aggressive for 93. Make sure it’s not leaking around the intake manifold and throttle body. I’d be suspect of eBay items especially turbos, and any manifolds.

Under maf clamp, there’s a drop down to select smim which you should also select.
 
So far, I've adjusted the TPS manually to 0.65v (as close as I could get), then re ran the ECMLink calibration.
I added the SMIM template to MafClamp
Copied the 2g stock template from V3configs.
0'd out the Maf Comp changes I made.
Set deadtime back to recommended 210 for FIC 650s

Its looking better, but still won't stay running.
The wideband is logging what my gauge is reading.

Heres a new log.
Ill compression and leak-down test in the morning, I have both Harbor Freight Kits
 

Attachments

  • After TPS adjust. SMIM option. and new 2g tables.elg
    42 KB · Views: 11
1) Did you swap in the extra CAS? I'm really thinking that's it but it should be quick to check.
2) Is this a 2.3L? If not, your loadscale is wrong and should be 100%.

Report back.
 
Hey guys. Like I said. I'm in the middle of moving so times been a little crunched. I haven't had a chance to mess with the car until now.

I'll grab my Greentop out of storage today and try that.

It is a 2.0l I will adjust that.

I'll try deadtime after cas

Thank you everyone

TO AVOID DOUBLE POST:

I got a boost leak tester in the mail today. (by Turbo Boost Leakers on eBay.)

Fixed a buncha minor leaks and a few major ones. (Mostly zip ties on vacuum lines/or hose clamps. A few couplers got readjusted. My MBC was open so far it was leaking LOL.) Realized I need a check valve for the brake booster :p I was wondering why the master cylinder to brake booster was leaking LOL.

Other than that should be solid there. I put the motor at TDC to perform a leakdown test and compression test after. Should get to that in the morning.

I reinstalled my 950cc FIC I bought for the car. I only had the 650s out of my old car just to diagnose no start.

Installed a greentop CAS I had from my storage unit.

FIxed my load scale to 100%.

Wondering if the chip I bought still had someones tune?? I had to change maxOct tables and load scale and someone said my timing is agressive?
 
Last edited:
The ecu will have the tune that was last saved so if you bought it used, yes it will have previous owners tune. Looks like you uploaded stock timing table so you're good there.
For sure ill do more digging and make sure everything else is pretty stock.

I finally got the car into closed loop!

Leak down holds about 95% air across all 4.
Compression test got 130 cold across board.


Fixed a buncha vacuum/boost leaks.
Swapped in 950cc FIC.
Changed CAS.

Still wouldn't stay running so I kept adding deadtime which helped a little.

I ended up lightly fluttering gas everytime it would start to lean out, and eventually it hopped into closed loop and stays running now.

Posted a log at bottom.

Also now throwing 0022 crank sensor circuit malfunction. May try swapping other cas back in. Ill likely need a new pigtail connector too. Theres a crack in outer housing although connection seems solid with the little metal clip in.

Thanks everyone! Oof rear main is only leak LOL

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Last edited:
It looks like once closed loop activated, it fell gradually from 120-0.
My s90 throttle body only has a TPS, everything else is deleted.
Not sure if thats related?

Roger.
Now that it runs and warms up, I'll look into getting rid of CAS code by swapping back to blacktop....hopefully,
and set the base timing.

After, I will mess with the fuel sliders.
Thank you
 
It looks like once closed loop activated, it fell gradually from 120-0.
My s90 throttle body only has a TPS, everything else is deleted.
Not sure if thats related?

Roger.
Now that it runs and warms up, I'll look into getting rid of CAS code by swapping back to blacktop....hopefully,
and set the base timing.

After, I will mess with the fuel sliders.
Thank you
Oh then you can probably ignore the isc
 
Oh then you can probably ignore the isc


Sounds good.

So I put in my blacktop CAS again, no more code there.
Set my base timing to 5 degrees. (0 with the gun at 5, and 5 with the gun at 0)

Now Ive got some sort or surge.
It seems the deadtime might be too high?
If I lower the deadtime, car leans out but stops surging.
Its an open/close loop surge.

I tried adjusting the 0 and 50hz sliders but I think this needs to be fixed first....
 
I'll try and find a throttle body around.

I got a 90 style for sure but don't want to mess with that. I think I have one taken apart somewhere...

or anyone wanna sell me one? :p

unplugging the maft (2g with ohm cable) stopped the surge. Not sure if thats related
 
I'll look into testing/swapping the MAF...bought it used years ago. Worth ruling out.

I saw something about surging idle on a ECM WIKI...quoted below

"If you are running a configured idle speed that's higher than stock, it's possible to observe a slight oscillation in idle speed even when everything else is working properly. This is because, by default, the timing tables in the ECU significantly advance ignition timing as the engine speed rises above 750 rpm, and engine speed tends to increase as ignition timing is advanced. You'll want to reduce this positive feedback by retarding the ignition timing at idle and slightly above idle. It also helps by giving the ECU's fine idle control mechanism more authority.

Also, as your idle speed setting is increased, the intended idle speed begins to get pretty close to the rpm at which the ECU cuts fuel when the idle switch is active. A good rule of thumb is to set the Coasting FC Offset to your rpm setting minus 900. For example, if your intended idle speed is 1100 rpm, set the Coasting FC Offset to 200 to raise the fuel-cut threshold by 200 rpm. Doing so also helps ensure that the idle switch will deactivate before the engine speed increases to the coasting fuel-cut threshold during no-load throttle application."



The surge is from jumping between open/closed loop. Or directly related to that. It started happening after setting base timing
 
UPDATE

I pulled the tranny and fixed a rear main leak. Come to find out that engine plug in there (Im assuming) is dripping too. Just UV tested it only drips off the slave cylinder. Dry inside everywhere i can touch in the bellhousing -.- Still good news, donut seals are pesky bastards. I will always use UV dye now for leaks, so I don't waste time or miss anything!!

While everything was apart, I found the "BISS" for the S90 throttle body. It's on the bottom hidden under the inlet flange. I turned that out a half turn or so and now its running much better and I was able to lower deadtime on injectors closer to recommended rating.

AirFl/Rev is around .25 now
Closed loop activates and idles smoothing. Revs nicely



It seems my Maf adjustments are still too high???
While I take tranny out again, anyone interested in taking a look?

Closed loop starts at 460 sec.
I lowered dead time in increments of 50 during the log 2 times to get 14.7 A/F Ratio
 
Confirmed leak is indeed the plug in the block. If anyone hasn't touched it and is in there, I'd recommend putting some thread sealer on it :)
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