New Evo 16g install issues, fuel cut ect..

[KrazyRob]

Got a few expected issues with my 99 GSX.. Just did a bunch of work to it, Head gasket, timing belt and turbo swap with a rebuilt HMI Evo III 16g, IC piping, hoses, put back stock fuel injectors and MAF for SMOG here in CA... I started the car for the first time today and it fired right up but during my test drive i noticed a few things.

1. Fuel Cut at around 5500 rpm
2. Air fuel code P1103 pops up when fuel cut happens
3. Idle has slight surge sometimes from 800 rpm to 1200... When checking with light Timing mark is moving up and down when surging
4. Not great high end power, better low end.

I have "0" porting done to anything on the car...

When I purchased this car it had a bunch of mods (listed in my profile) on it, so in a way im down grading but still keeping some of the mods.. I had a SBR G50 50 trim turbo before..

I ordered a Boost Leak Tester a few days ago just incase I have boost leaks..
Im wondering if I have vacuum hoses wrong to my evo wastegate? Basically Im just using the stock vacuum routing of the hoses except im not using a "T" that went to the T25..

I have a Aermotive adjustable fuel pressure gauge, and it reads 40psi is that too much for stock injectors?

Also I have something stupid set up to hopefully pass the LAME (visual) smog inspection part of the test .. I am using the stock air intake,Air filter box and MAF. but on the top of the air intake it has the large 2'' or so spout that hooks to the stock IC piping.. I have the stock IC removed from the car and I have a FMIC..

Anyway i just plugged in the stock BOV to that spout with nothing hooked to it on the bottom ... from the top it looks alot more stock.. underneath the stock air intake I have a Blitz BOV turned upside down in the FMIC pipe and its out of sight ... Im wondering if that stock BOV that I hooked up for looks is giving me a massive boost leak at 5500 rpm..

As soon as I get my 2012 tags.. Im yanking out that stock air intake for my Injen, installing my 680cc injectors back, installing my new Wally 255 fuel pump, ordering a boost gauge and wideband, getting a fuel management system, and installing my MBC.. But till then im gonna try to smog it and see what happens, oh and I removed my 3" downpipe and installed my stock DP with cat..

Is there a better place to get vacuum from to run to my wastegate than how I have it set up? I dont have a nipple on my FMIC piping or on my J pipe..

 

[NHerron]

2. Air fuel code P1103 pops up when fuel cut happens

This code is telling you that too much air is being introduced and it thinks the wastegate solenoid is to blame. This is what a SAFC is for, to alter the airflow. The ECU sees too much air and you get fuel cut. The SAFC modifies the airflow signal going to the ECU so it can run more boost without fuel cut.

Make sure to get a logger and a wideband in the future when altering fuel

I ordered a Boost Leak Tester a few days ago just incase I have boost leaks..
Im wondering if I have vacuum hoses wrong to my evo wastegate? Basically Im just using the stock vacuum routing of the hoses except im not using a "T" that went to the T25..

Surging is most likely boost/vacuum leak. Just wait for the tester and test, you probably have a few [common] leaks

I have a Aermotive adjustable fuel pressure gauge, and it reads 40psi is that too much for stock injectors?

Double check the base fuel pressure. While car is running, unhook the vacuum line running the to FPR (and plug it with a bolt or something) and adjust the FPR for 43psi, then plug the line back in. It will drop slightly.

Also I have something stupid set up to hopefully pass the LAME (visual) smog inspection part of the test .. I am using the stock air intake,Air filter box and MAF. but on the top of the air intake it has the large 2'' or so spout that hooks to the stock IC piping.. I have the stock IC removed from the car and I have a FMIC..

Anyway i just plugged in the stock BOV to that spout with nothing hooked to it on the bottom ... from the top it looks alot more stock.. underneath the stock air intake I have a Blitz BOV turned upside down in the FMIC pipe and its out of sight ... Im wondering if that stock BOV that I hooked up for looks is giving me a massive boost leak at 5500 rpm..

I can't even imagine how that is but it could defiantly be causing some problems..

Is there a better place to get vacuum from to run to my wastegate than how I have it set up? I dont have a nipple on my FMIC piping or on my J pipe..

The wastegate operates on boost, don't know if you were just typing quick but yeah. It's signal should come from the turbo compressor cover or j pipe, just something that see's boost pressure. As close to the compressor cover as possible for shortest/cleanest vacuum hose routing. Improves response

Defiantly the same for the BOV (in reguards to dedicated lines). Some like to cut corners and run the WG & BOV off the one vacuum line coming from the intake manifold. No. Run one single line from the IM to the BOV. Then just take off the J-pipe, drill a hole in the side and weld in a 1/8"NPT bung. Then screw in a 90* 1/8"NPT to barb fitting and bam done. Paint to match for a stealthy look and maybe weld the fitting out of sight

 

[honda_burner]

Did you de tune the car when you put the 450's back in? Or is the car still looking for the 700 cc injectors?

 

[Abe'sGST]

One question for you, I may have read it but not understood, do you have any vacuum lines coming off your wastegate? Like mentioned, try to drill a nipple as close to the compressor as possible and hook it up there.

 

[KrazyRob]

Thanks Nherron good info! Guess i will have to modify and weld in a nipple.. so there is no boost coming from the nipple on air intake? Thats where i have the 1/8 vac line hooked to.. on the stock 2g air intake there is i believe 3 places for vac hoses. There are 2 larger sizes lines one goes from the crankcase valve cover, the other i believe comes from the charcoal canister area and the 3rd line is the tiny 1/8 line that comes off the air intake and goes to the stock boost control solenoid ( bcs) and then goes from the bcs to the WG nipple.. this is how i have it hooked up and how its hooked up on my stock 97 gst.. however my gst has a line going to the T25 in the "T" fitting and now with this 16g i have nothing hooked to the turbo or boost side .. so im wondering if by not having it hooked to my turbo or jpipe that the WG is not getting boost at all to open up ..

The car was externally tuned with a MAF translater, and had a GM MAF and delphi 680cc injectors.. i removed all that and but back the stock MAF and injectors for smog.. also on my old set up i had a DNP header with TIAL external wastegate and i remember that wastegate had a direct vacuum line going to my 50 trim SBR G50 turbo housing.. now with my current set up i am set up differently..

Also where can i get that 1/8 barb to weld on? Hardware store or is tgat something special? I also got to find out if my aftermarket jpipe is aluminum or not. If not i will weld it my self with my wire feed.

 

[KrazyRob]

Haha Car passed CA smog earier.. now the game changes..

 

[NHerron]

Sorry I'm late to answer it's been busy!

Stock BCS is an electronic bleeder type manual boost controller. The lower nipple (closest to electrical connector) needs both the wastegate and a boost source running to it. The top nipple goes into the air intake since it is after the MAF and its a lower pressure. Normally, the valve is open so it can "bleed off" a bit of air for higher boost pressure performance. It closes when it wants less boost. There is a "free mod" here on tuners which opens up the hole a little bit bigger so it can bleed off more air therefore wastegate opens later and causes more boost in the charge pipes. AKA free HP!

But you just passed inspection and can now mod right? Undo all the vacuum lines running to the BCS, but leave it plugged in electronically and just hang it out the way somewhere. I don't see if you have a MBC or not? Do you have a Hallman manual boost controller or anything? For the ball and spring type boost controllers, run a line from a boost source->to MBC->to wastgeate actuator.

There is actually a thread on how to tap the E316G compressor cover but I don't think you can pull off just the cover on the car without getting the entire turbo off first.

I attached pictures of my 16G setup

 

[KrazyRob]

Cool.. well i have MBC but i dont want to install it yet till i get gauges and fuel management... im finding out that my pipes are all aluminum so i cant just weld it normally.. i will have to take my j pipe to a shop that welds aluminum... hopefully its not a grip $$$.... so basically the way i have it hooked up now is not right and wont open my wastegate correct? So im getting fuel cut...

 

[NHerron]

Yup. The boost is not being controlled whatsoever so the turbo just keeps spinning faster and faster until the computer sees too much airflow and cuts off the injectors

Here is tapping the compressor cover, but I would be very careful about doing it on the car. Stuff a lot of rags down the compressor outlet and spread a layer of grease over the top rag to make sure no shavings drop past the first rag.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...boost-source-16g-turbo-compressor-outlet.html

If you want to weld into the aluminum J-pipe and can't find an aluminum 1/8" NPT bung around your area (my town doesn't even know what a weld bung is) you can get one off eBay for about $5 shipped.

Mine was steel, I would just call around and ask if they can do a small aluminum weld for ya if you went that route

 

[KrazyRob]

Yup. The boost is not being controlled whatsoever so the turbo just keeps spinning faster and faster until the computer sees too much airflow and cuts off the injectors

Here is tapping the compressor cover, but I would be very careful about doing it on the car. Stuff a lot of rags down the compressor outlet and spread a layer of grease over the top rag to make sure no shavings drop past the first rag.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...boost-source-16g-turbo-compressor-outlet.html

If you want to weld into the aluminum J-pipe and can't find an aluminum 1/8" NPT bung around your area (my town doesn't even know what a weld bung is) you can get one off eBay for about $5 shipped.

Mine was steel, I would just call around and ask if they can do a small aluminum weld for ya if you went that route

Yeah there is a speed shop here in town with the aluminum 1/8 barb but i just gotta look around for someone to do a quick aluminum weld.. i rather not tap into the E316g unless i have to.. incase i wanna sell it and upgrade turbos later or something ..

 

[NHerron]

Kinda the same thing here. I didn't like the way it looked coming off the compressor cover so I welded a bung on the Jpipe instead and threaded in the 1/8 to barbed nipple

 

[KrazyRob]

Well i found a industrial shop here that carried all types of stainless an aluminum fittings. Ended up finding a threaded aluminum sleeve and stainless 1/8 barb fitting.. because it was an industrial shop the guy just gave me the fittings for free as he was to lazy to write up a tag on something so small .. then I found a weld shop local that will weld on the sleeve for $35..it will be done tomorrow..


Meanwhile the surge problem was pulling up a po505 (IAC) code at my buddies smog shop but it was not turning on the CEL.. i was not able to reconize that code on my handheld scan tool later.... but the car never had this problem before.. so im thinking yes i probably have a vacuum or boost leak somewhere.. i Just got my boostleak tester today so im going to check for leaks tomorrow.. i think i hear a hissing sound near the throttle body at idle...

 

[NHerron]

Awesome! I love those kinds of shops that give small things away. I got a free sample of copper heat sink tape not too long ago for some electronics shielding

Your ISC motor is shot
Code is attached

This guys' channel is awesome. Full of great tech on our cars
Here is one of his videos on how to easily test the ISC
DSM ISC motor testing & Replacement - YouTube

 

[KrazyRob]

I dont believe my IAC is shot just yet but i will still test it.. is there a way to install a throttle body gasket wrong? Iam hearing a vacuum leak around the gasket. That is probably causing the surge and po505 code.. its 105 degrees in my garage right now so i have been putting off going out there to work on my car ..

So hey back to the wastegate / boost question.. so shouldnt i use the stock BCS instead of just unhooking it? Remember i do NOT have a MBC, gauges, big injectors or fuel management hooked up to the car.. if i just want to run stock boost on the e316g for now till i get my mods, should i hook into the BCS like the stock set up? I dont want to blow my motor with uncontrolled boost...

 

[bryanwheat]

I would definitely run off the stock boost control solenoid. You could of just used the port on the throttle body for a pressure source for the boost controller. It will work perfectly fine that way.

 

[NHerron]

I would definitely run off the stock boost control solenoid. You could of just used the port on the throttle body for a pressure source for the boost controller. It will work perfectly fine that way.

The boost solenoid will make him run a little more boost which is fine, but for simplicity's sake, J-pipe straight to wastegate would be good. When/if he wants to run more boost just cut the signal line and stick the MBC in between the two. Yes running a line from the manifold to the wastegate would work but again, simplicitys sake, it's better to have short dedicated lines.

I recommended it because it only cost me $20 for the bung, nipple, and weld job. After so many mods you'll be tapping into manifold lines already making enough new leak points. Don't play games with Mr. Wastegate.

*While were on the subject, I know the P port sees vacuum and boost, but E and A sees nothing but boost, correct?

I dont believe my IAC is shot just yet but i will still test it.. is there a way to install a throttle body gasket wrong? Iam hearing a vacuum leak around the gasket. That is probably causing the surge and po505 code.. its 105 degrees in my garage right now so i have been putting off going out there to work on my car ...

The P0505 only comes up when there is something electronically wrong with the ISC circuit. Look at the probably cause in the attached picture. Most likely, it is one of the ISC motor coils which failed open. Or it isn't plugged in.

 

[KrazyRob]

So to clarify..its not good to run a direct line from the j-pipe to the WG right now correct?? As i dont have mods yet..

So i should use the stock vacuum routing , including BCS, and T-Fitting to Turbo (or boost source j-pipe) just like the stock set up correct?

Also i read a few places that the po505 code can be caused by vacuum and or a boost leak thats why i said that.. i will check out iac circuit then...

 

[NHerron]

Running a line straight from the J pipe to the wastegate will cause the wastegate to see a true unmodified boost source all the time. If you have seen some of the diesel turbos, they have a line going off the compressor cover straight to the wastegate.

The stock setup bleeds off the boost signal that way the wastegate opens LATER causing more boost in the system since the wastegate has not opened all the way yet. Thats why there is a mod people do which bleeds off more so they can run more boost.

The Evo3 already flows more air at the same PSI than the stock turbo anyway, so running an unmodified boost signal to th wastegate will still be an improvement over the stock turbo and solenoid.

There is a spring contained within the wastegate 'can' that is preloaded. I think its a spring rated for around 10-12psi. So when 10-12psi of boost pressure has been jammed in there, the spring will be compressed and fully actuates the wastegate which bypasses the exhaust gases around the turbine wheel.

Hope that makes sense, I don't know if you already knew that.

 

[KrazyRob]

Yeah makes sence.. im new to turbos and mods.. i was worried about messing up my motor by running too much boost and not having the fuel to back it up.. i figured since a MBC is placed inline between the boost source and the wastegate that with out a MBC i would be running max uncontrolled boost and damage my stock motor.. but you are saying that it is ok run a direct line from my.j pipe to the wastegate with out any boost controller and with out bigger injectors, boost and wideband gauges, with stock fuel pump and no fuel management.system? Sorry i never really got a yes or no from the last reply ...



BTW I hooked up my new boostleak tester and Oh man i found a MASSIVE boost leak under my intake manifold.. its in a spot where i cannot see or get too but its near the gasket/ bolt area.. i did use a new 2g paper gasket that i had left over from one of my other 2g cars in the past. I probably should have just bought a metal gasket for it.. its either the gasket leaking or my intake is cracked from over torqueing the bottom.bolts where the torque wrench would not fit... i hope it is the gasket!!

And what a pain in the ass to take all this apart again.. after just doing a head gasket job.... im.suprised i drove this car on the freeway and that it passed smog .. it wont even hold 2 psi of pressure, with a 120psi shop air hose the air leaks out of that intake leak almost as fast as it goes in . Its a huge leak ..

 

[MHuddy1213]

yes you can run a hose from j-pipe directly to wastgate the wastgate will open automatically around 9 psi so you will not overboost at all and you can run 15 psi of boost max on stock fuel system

 

[WES_393]

Yes you can very safely run a line straight from the j-pipe to the wastegate. It will only build about 10psi which is low enough for the stock fuel system.

For the intake manifold gasket, I have never liked paper gaskets. Get yourself a Felpro gasket.

 

[MHuddy1213]

if you hit 10-12 like NHerron said you will still be 100% fine once that spring reaches a certain amount of pressure the rest will leak out the exhaust

 

[KrazyRob]

Awesome.. i will mess with it tomorrow..... with the new E316g and a massive boost leak it still seemed faster than my stock 97 gst daily driver .. cant wait to get this 99 gsx on the road for the first time! And running right...

 

[NHerron]

Sorry about that, I was typing on the phone while waiting for the air compressor to air up. Damn those oil less compressors taking so long...

J-pipe to waste gate = clean look, guaranteed consistent boost control. Perfectly fine for stock everything. Just leave the solenoid plugged in and tuck it away under the fuse box. When you start playing with fuel and boost levels, simply cut the line in the middle and put the new MBC in series. Short lines and easy access to the boost controller adjustment.

I like the stock boost level. It's pretty potent for street driving and whatnot. Make sure the oil return line isn't kinked

Felpro is a great brand

How do you like the Nology hot wires? I seen them on another members car and I liked the idea / look but I don't know about the price...

 

[KrazyRob]

Thanks nherron. Yeah i have a oil less compressor too 30 gallon.. takes a while.. cool well im off to get a fel pro gasket and start pulling the intake off
..i will hook up the line straight to the wastegate just wanted to be a 1000% sure ... i have no problems with the nology wires.. they came with my car... each wire has its own ground braided cable.... ... also i removed the stock intake and i am using a injen intake... this baby is gonna fly when i get that massive boost leak fixed haha..

My oil return hose does have a small kink in it, and it still can flow.. but i dont want risk it ...lucky i found a EVO factory metal return line in a old box of parts i got from someone. I am gonna swap it out.. sucks cause i just spent $20 getting the correct fittings for this hose, but that aint shit if i burn up my evo ..

Ok i took off my intake and yes the new paper gasket was leaking severe but not because it was paper but because it was the wrong f' ing gasket!! Even though it came in a gasket kit for 2g turbo the ports on the gasket were larger so the bottom of each intake port was leaking cause there wasnt any gasket there at all . If u could imagine that type if leak .. cant believe i missed that when installing it .. oh well i got a metal felpro in there now so i shouldnt have to worry... soon as i get this intake all wrapped up im gonna run that line to my wastegate and take it for a spin.. updates to follow..