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~97TalonTSi~

20+ Year Contributor
178
0
Jun 17, 2002
Livonia, Michigan
I just went to the track recently for the first time with new mods. Turbo-back 3in, Injen Intake, MBC@15psi, UICP, and Webcams street grind. The car was slower than I had expected. Then after my 3rd run, we noticed that my rubber boot on the UICP was sliced from the hole in the sheet metal to the intercooler not being big enough. A lot of air is escaping. Obviously I am going to fix it but would that make a huge difference in performance or a small one??

Also, I was told that the car was ready for the cams, now I'm not so sure, as everyting before the 1/8 mile was slower than stock. My mph was 10 faster and my E/T was faster by eight tenths, but it didn't go anywhere of the line, I mean no where. I was expecting a 13.9-14.1. It's an auto...should I just relax and wait with the cams for a bigger turbo and/or torque converter?

Any help appriciated
 
2.3 60ft stock, 2.5 now
Although I didn't get a good launch as throttle response is different now
87 mph stock, 97 now

My friend said my mph was good for a 13.9 sec pass
 
60ft is horrible, get that down and you will be in the 13s, your mph is high so thats telling me that the power is there.

were you having traction problems on the lauch?

i dont know much about cams in a dsm but from what i know about my mustang is that when you go to different cams you lose low end power to gain hp on the top end, so its a trade off
 
After you installed the cams did you do any tuning or just drop them in. Usually cams do not change power greatly when they are just dropped in. In some cases I have seen a decent loss in power with after market cams without tuning. Trust me it could happen I used to drive a Integra Tyoe and saw a few examples of people losing power with aftermarket cams. Granted the gained it back and then some when the finally tuned the car to the new cams.
 
Boosted97GS-T:

I do have some traction problems, but nothing that wasn't there before.
 
1997 Eclipse GSX:

What kind of tuning...degreeing and cam sprockets? Is there any other ways to tune cams for these cars? I admit I did just drop them in. I do know for sure that the timing is dead on.
 
You would need to tune your cams. Most likely lining the cams up at TDC would not be the best setup. You will need to experiment with different cam settings for both the intake and exhaust cams. You will also need to alter the fuel delivery. New cams will need differenet levels of fuel at different rpm compared to stock. Also you will need to adjust your ignition timing maps. Unless you do all this and possibly more that I am missing you will not get the full potential of the cams and in fact may actually be hurting performance.

Hope that helps.
 
Tune Cam Gears
Increase/Tune Ignition Timing
Cleanup Fuel

Can Gear tuning is trial and error. Basically start at one 0 degrees and advance/retard for the best results first on the intake. After fighting best setup for intake move to exhaust. Remember, the setting that gets the best peak HP may not be the most poerful setup across the entire RPM range (look for greatest area under the curve).

Good luck!
 
Thanks for your help, I have got adjustable cam gears on the way...we will see how that does.

Thanks!
 
for traction issues and whele hop problems, get some prothane urethane motor and tranny mounts. my 95 FWD auto ran a 14.7 last week w/ urethane bushings, pro-tech tranny, Bosche platinum plugs, Magnecore wires, K&N filter, upper and lower IC piping..and tires that could stand to be replaced. cams shouldnt be slowing you down that much. like a guy said earlier..the power is there..you need to put the power to the ground.
 
If you are running the cams on a stock turbo, you aren't getting far. Remember that the T-25 doesn't flow a lot of air. You may get some power out of the cams but the cams basically just let in more fuel and air, but if the supply isn't up to par, it doesn't matter. As for degreeing the cams...They are right, but wouldn't it be nice if the companies would just grind them that way in the first place. I understand that there are little differences between engines and small amounts of degreeing will make a difference, but I've seen people using over 5* with an aftermarket cam. Just seems wrong to me.
 
The whole plan is to get a new turbo along with a FMIC plus all the fuel requirements. I knew that I wasn't going to see much from the cams until then. I was just a little surprised to see a decrease in performance and thought I may have not been ready for them....Also one of my other problems I mentioned before...the IC pipe connector being sliced, well I fixed that and it surprisingly made a bigger difference than I thought. Fuel injection is so sensitive. I am hoping my next trip to the track will be better. I will also pick up some different tires (hehe my Nitto 40 series radials just don't make very good drag tires) and look into the motor and tranny mounts. I think I overreacted a little and jsut need to get a few more runs in cause the car is really running good right now :)
 
I see posts like this and they make me cringe...

There is a reason why there is an order for modding DSMs. You know why? Because people have tried these mods time and again and they WORK, in their GIVEN ORDER. I just have to ask why fool around with that?

I wouldn't even mess around with cams until everything else you can do to the car BEFORE has been done-IN ORDER...
Go to dsm.org, they have a great breakdown of the (almost) foolproof mods path for 1 and 2G's.

Good luck!
 
Dude, 1999 GST is right, order is important. Cams usually follow after a big turbo and FMIC, but most of the cam tuning can be fixed with a Apex S-AFC. Get the Web Cams street grind, they give like 38hp from a small 16-g and more with bigger turbos.
 
Revenant, I know all about the steps to take, I have probably read everything you could throw at me and then some. A nice man (name forgotten) at Web told me I was ready for these cams, there's also this page from Road Race... http://www.roadraceengineering.com/webcaminfo.htm If I had gotten the 452/228 you should cringe. My exhaust and intake are completely freed up as well as intercooler pipes. These cams have no clearance problems, don't need different springs or a different fuel system. I am not hurting anything with these. I agree I will see huge gains with a new turbo, IC, fuel delivery, torque converter....but it was a legitimate step to take. I have come to the conclusion with opinions from some of the nicer posts that traction and the hole in my UICP connection were my problems at the track last week.
Thanks you though for your input, and do you have the DSM Link? If so what are your takes on it?
 
Originally posted by runuover2
for traction issues and whele hop problems, get some prothane urethane motor and tranny mounts. my 95 FWD auto ran a 14.7 last week w/ urethane bushings, pro-tech tranny, Bosche platinum plugs, Magnecore wires, K&N filter, upper and lower IC piping..and tires that could stand to be replaced. cams shouldnt be slowing you down that much. like a guy said earlier..the power is there..you need to put the power to the ground.

Dustin? Whaddup up big DAWG! hehe :D I was just thinking of you while reading this post.
 
97TalonTSi~
I know your cams won't hurt anything, it's just that to unleash the full potential of your car (like you said), I would have gone through the other steps first, (and making sure hoses, vaccum, fuel lines etc are good are the first step! :) )...especially $wise...but that's just my opinion. And as a FWD owner, I definitely understand your concern putting power to the ground! I have horrid 60 foots, and I'm still on the T25...:( I guess putting the cams in is an investment for the future as you keep modding.

Love DSMLink, no more worries when resetting the ECU, the stutterbox rules, you can tune for different set ups (say, pumpgas or race gas, lower boost, higher boost, whatever you want) and save your fuel/timing maps...I cannot recommend it enough.
Good luck!
 
Have you done your tranny mods yet? Shift kit and end clutch? I don't know if you are on the AT list, but you should be. There are a couple guys in the 10's on AT's now and they are very friendly and helpful.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT-DSM/

--Thorin
 
Revenant:

I really would love to get the DSMLink....I know it is used with a laptop, and this may be a dumb question but I figured you'd be able to answer it the best. I'm assuming it doesn't but does the DSMLink have to constantly be hooked to the laptop or can you make your changes and set everything how you want it, then disconnect your computer and leave it home? My car's still my daily driver and don't want a laptop next to me all the time :)

Thanks
 
Thorin:

Thanks for the info, I had heard of the AT part of the club but never knew it was a yahoo site....I will be signed up ASAP :)
 
Are you powerbraking correctly? I pulled a 1.81 60ft with the stock converter and my T28. I'd recommend you get bigger injectors an AFC and do some tunning.
 
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