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ECMlink Need help with idle & 2150s

boost97gst

Proven Member
3,033
133
Apr 2, 2012
st jacob, Illinois
Lol, i noticed that. Dude telling you to jack the injbattadj way up, then me, saying drop it low. From my very recent experience i have found that raising it basically adds more fuel, lowering it leans it out. I mean, it's more technical than that but you get the idea. In MY case, and my car is currently on a tank of e85 i should note, it worked EXACTLY as i thought. my idle at around 12.4V was giving me combined FT of around +6 to +8%. So, i took the 12v number(939 in my case) and dropped it roughly 6% to 883. I had to fiddle with it a hair but it ended up being awful close to that number to get the swing down to near zero. +/- 2%. This is anecdotal evidence and may not apply, but it was a controlled test.
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Lol, i noticed that. Dude telling you to jack the injbattadj way up, then me, saying drop it low. From my very recent experience i have found that raising it basically adds more fuel, lowering it leans it out. I mean, it's more technical than that but you get the idea. In MY case, and my car is currently on a tank of e85 i should note, it worked EXACTLY as i thought. my idle at around 12.4V was giving me combined FT of around +6 to +8%. So, i took the 12v number(939 in my case) and dropped it roughly 6% to 883. I had to fiddle with it a hair but it ended up being awful close to that number to get the swing down to near zero. +/- 2%. This is anecdotal evidence and may not apply, but it was a controlled test.

Ah crap man you confused me again LOL. Kenny said when fuel trims are positive (ex: STFT) that means its lean and you need to increase deadtime. Basically the same post you said "solid advice" to. Am I not understanding something here? :confused:
 

boost97gst

Proven Member
3,033
133
Apr 2, 2012
st jacob, Illinois
Last post, i am aware i'm a bit of a spazz on this thread, apologies in advance. I just wanted to spread the news about how DA injbatteryadj works. My sweet spot was 854 at 12v. I just ran a battery of tests. I dropped it to 700, fired it back up, ran a log. Sure enough. Can you guess how much fuel the ecu was adding in combined FT when i DROPPED the 12v injbatadj by ~19%? Yea, it added almost exactly 19% of fuel. ***This part is 100% correct. I can grab another log and show back to backs if you'd like, or you can try it

nvm, i'm stilllllllllllll really rusty. I'll "git good" again soon haha

I'm sure i got things a little back asswards, but the outcome is solid. I was running 939 12v and getting combinefts +6(means i'm lean, right?) I dropped to 854 and combinedft went to near zero. Ya know, i've been outta this for 3+ years LOL, i think i have it backwards. Lowering it Richens, raising it Leans? Idk, but i tested it and it sure as hell has a direct and exact effect on fuel trims. Nvm the top paragraph. HAHAHA. Raise your DA injbatt. Try it. What can it hurt. He is right
 
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Kenny07

Proven Member
132
29
Jan 15, 2014
clovis, New_Mexico
SOlid advice. I was looking at your better idle log and scratching my head to no end! I was like, WHAT is he running to have a global like that, deadtimes as such, and injbatteryadj table, on 2150s! Lol. Then, as i often do, i read your post LOL. You're running 1650s. Nice idle log though. Your STFTs are clean, bouncing no more than 2%. You have your global/DT/and Injbattadj tables dialed in it would seem. Nice work.

*I've been outta the tuning game for years at this point, but it would seem that adding to your injbattadj in the column needed, essentially makes it more rich. It basically says so in the description on that page. This has lead me to pull some logs and find that, on E85, i need to drop my 12v from 939 by 6%. And, it seems to have worked. I'm rusty so if i'm dead wrong, call me on it LOL

My log does look okay, but the way its running says otherwise. RPMS are bouncing +or- 100. Happens during rev as well, if I rev to 2k and hold it, it will bounce pretty drastically 300+- RPMS also cant drive it because it stalls and bucks hard. And yes you are correct, the more time you add to Injector DA tables the richer it goes.

Takes a few seconds to try it out and see how it goes, might work might not.

Tried it. First problem is latency doesnt go above 3825, which stock and my FIC data sheet put me well above. I was able to increase 9v, 12v, 14v, 16v, 19v but ran crazy rich (9.5) and thats with a VE table in the 20's, once I get that low it stays in Open Loop.
Back to the drawing board :banghead:
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
My log does look okay, but the way its running says otherwise. RPMS are bouncing +or- 100. Happens during rev as well, if I rev to 2k and hold it, it will bounce pretty drastically 300+- RPMS also cant drive it because it stalls and bucks hard. And yes you are correct, the more time you add to Injector DA tables the richer it goes.



Tried it. First problem is latency doesnt go above 3825, which stock and my FIC data sheet put me well above. I was able to increase 9v, 12v, 14v, 16v, 19v but ran crazy rich (9.5) and thats with a VE table in the 20's, once I get that low it stays in Open Loop.
Back to the drawing board :banghead:

Guess what?! I tried it too. Guess what else? Same EXACT results. SO to clarify, do NOT add those FIC values on top of stock values. Here's a short log for anyone wondering.
 

Attachments

  • log.2018.07.16-01 Adding values.elg
    46.4 KB · Views: 49

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Last post, i am aware i'm a bit of a spazz on this thread, apologies in advance. I just wanted to spread the news about how DA injbatteryadj works. My sweet spot was 854 at 12v. I just ran a battery of tests. I dropped it to 700, fired it back up, ran a log. Sure enough. Can you guess how much fuel the ecu was adding in combined FT when i DROPPED the 12v injbatadj by ~19%? Yea, it added almost exactly 19% of fuel. ***This part is 100% correct. I can grab another log and show back to backs if you'd like, or you can try it

nvm, i'm stilllllllllllll really rusty. I'll "git good" again soon haha

I'm sure i got things a little back asswards, but the outcome is solid. I was running 939 12v and getting combinefts +6(means i'm lean, right?) I dropped to 854 and combinedft went to near zero. Ya know, i've been outta this for 3+ years LOL, i think i have it backwards. Lowering it Richens, raising it Leans? Idk, but i tested it and it sure as hell has a direct and exact effect on fuel trims. Nvm the top paragraph. HAHAHA. Raise your DA injbatt. Try it. What can it hurt. He is right

UPDATE: Got to mess with my car after trying the aforementioned adding FIC values on top of stock values. Here's what I ended up with when messing with the DA tables at the 12v and 14v values. Skip to the 130 second mark or so and tell me what you guys think. The problem is, how do I get airflowperrevs down without messing with the deadtime and mafcomp sliders? Wasn't it suggested to only mess with the DA tables? Or can I proceed and mess with the sliders now?

Oh and to clarify for you boost97gst, Kenny had it right. If the fuel trims are negative, then you decrease the InjBatteryAdj values to level it out. =) at least that's what worked for me. I used your method by calculating the exact percentage I saw on the stream though. For example, if my LTFT was at 3%. I multiplied my value at 12v (743) by .03 and got 22. Added that to 743 which gave me 760 and then plugged that in instead.
 

Attachments

  • log.2018.07.16-02 Adjusted values.elg
    146.3 KB · Views: 51

Kenny07

Proven Member
132
29
Jan 15, 2014
clovis, New_Mexico
UPDATE: Got to mess with my car after trying the aforementioned adding FIC values on top of stock values. Here's what I ended up with when messing with the DA tables at the 12v and 14v values. Skip to the 130 second mark or so and tell me what you guys think. The problem is, how do I get airflowperrevs down without messing with the deadtime and mafcomp sliders? Wasn't it suggested to only mess with the DA tables? Or can I proceed and mess with the sliders now?

Oh and to clarify for you boost97gst, Kenny had it right. If the fuel trims are negative, then you decrease the InjBatteryAdj values to level it out. =) at least that's what worked for me. I used your method by calculating the exact percentage I saw on the stream though. For example, if my LTFT was at 3%. I multiplied my value at 12v (743) by .03 and got 22. Added that to 743 which gave me 760 and then plugged that in instead.

At around 132 Seconds your battery drops off to 11V's, and you go lean (Fans kick on?) Add some more latency to 9V to smooth the transition between 9v and 12v. Other than that its looking better. Good job man.
 

Attachments

  • tempsnip.png
    tempsnip.png
    135.9 KB · Views: 68

Kenny07

Proven Member
132
29
Jan 15, 2014
clovis, New_Mexico
Guess what?! I tried it too. Guess what else? Same EXACT results. SO to clarify, do NOT add those FIC values on top of stock values. Here's a short log for anyone wondering.
Once your deadtimes/latency/global is all dialed in, you can start adjusting your sliders. Pretty high on airflowperrev, for me it works like this. If I raise my Speed density table the Airflowperrev increases (more fuel, more air) not sure if its the same for the MAF sliders. I have the opposite problem as you.
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
At around 132 Seconds your battery drops off to 11V's, and you go lean (Fans kick on?) Add some more latency to 9V to smooth the transition between 9v and 12v. Other than that its looking better. Good job man.
You're correct! I turned on my fans to see if it would go lean but I never got around to checking. I was wondering if I'd had to adjust it some more because of the fans coming on and that leaning out happening. Do I? Or is it good as is?
When you say "add more latency" what do you mean?
EDIT: I think you answered my questions here. You're telling me to mess with the 9v and 12v values in order to account for the fans kicking on and going lean huh. This makes sense.
But, by "add more latency", do you mean to just increase the Usecs in the DA tables at 9v and 12v?

Once your deadtimes/latency/global is all dialed in, you can start adjusting your sliders. Pretty high on airflowperrev, for me it works like this. If I raise my Speed density table the Airflowperrev increases (more fuel, more air) not sure if its the same for the MAF sliders. I have the opposite problem as you.
I didn't think I needed to dial in global because ecmlink already has it calculated for me so I just leave it alone right?
Yes I believe it is the same for me. If I lower my maf sliders for the given Hz, the airflowperrev figures decrease. I had my airflowperrev at 0.21 this morning then I just zeroed everything to start over.

Lastly, just for a test run, I decided to move my sliders to see what would happen and it throws all my fuel trims out of whack again. So after adjusting and dialing in everything like you said, and then messing with the sliders, wouldn't it just defeat the purpose of all that work? It seems kind of pointless you know? I set everything back though. I just wanted to know what would happen if I messed with the sliders after getting my fuel trims in check.
 

Kenny07

Proven Member
132
29
Jan 15, 2014
clovis, New_Mexico
You're correct! I turned on my fans to see if it would go lean but I never got around to checking. I was wondering if I'd had to adjust it some more because of the fans coming on and that leaning out happening. Do I? Or is it good as is?
When you say "add more latency" what do you mean?
EDIT: I think you answered my questions here. You're telling me to mess with the 9v and 12v values in order to account for the fans kicking on and going lean huh. This makes sense.
But, by "add more latency", do you mean to just increase the Usecs in the DA tables at 9v and 12v?


I didn't think I needed to dial in global because ecmlink already has it calculated for me so I just leave it alone right?
Yes I believe it is the same for me. If I lower my maf sliders for the given Hz, the airflowperrev figures decrease. I had my airflowperrev at 0.21 this morning then I just zeroed everything to start over.

Lastly, just for a test run, I decided to move my sliders to see what would happen and it throws all my fuel trims out of whack again. So after adjusting and dialing in everything like you said, and then messing with the sliders, wouldn't it just defeat the purpose of all that work? It seems kind of pointless you know? I set everything back though. I just wanted to know what would happen if I messed with the sliders after getting my fuel trims in check.

I would add a few more Usecs to the DA Table at the 9v and 12v area, then do the same exact thing you did. Pull another log and turn the fans on. Log battery, AFREst and Wideband and see how it acts, you can put further strain on the alternator by lowering windows, turning on AC etc. and it will show you where you need to add more time to counter the drop in volts/AFR.

You are correct, you shouldn’t need to touch global, so leave that and adjust your sliders.
They all tie intogether, you move your sliders up, it will add more air and fuel, but since you already added more fuel with your DA table, you’re trims will be off again. It’s a constant back and forth, very much a pain.
 

snowborder714

Moderator
16,159
320
Oct 15, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
You guys are aware that generally the injector deadtimes from the manufacturer are added to the stock deadtimes? also bump up your ignition timing a little in those areas.

This is not the case with Fuel Injector Clinic injectors. Whatever numbers they give you are the numbers you plug into ECMlink.


Do you have a picture of the data sheet that came with the injectors that you can post up?
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Also, the values I got for my InjBatteryAdj are:

Volts usecs
7v 1900
9v 1230
12v 823
14v 743
16v 695
19v 595

If anyone gets anything different please let me know. Some values have been since changed though after last night in order to get my fuel trims in line.
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Have a new log up guys and I really feel like I'm getting close. The only problem seems to be my isc value and my airflowperrev is really high. Any help PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 

Attachments

  • log.2018.07.19-01 Almost there.elg
    153.3 KB · Views: 72

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Honestly, if everything else looks ok fuel trim wise, I wouldn't worry about those two values. You will never get every little detail correct when tuning. Unless you notice a drivability problem, I'd go with what you've got right there.

You caught me at SUCH a good time. I was literally about to step out in a few minutes to re-do my entire tune after dialing these injectors in as close as I could get it yesterday. Here's a log of my idle and and cruise yesterday and I REALLY think that this is the best I could do. Everything basically sits perfect other than my isc value which sits in the 50s.

Only problem is I have to start my car like five times just so it doesn't turn off on me and I have to feather the throttle for it it stay alive.

I think around the 800 second mark is when I have my final values dialed in before the cruise
 

Attachments

  • log.2018.07.22-01 Best idle n cruise.elg
    2.6 MB · Views: 62

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
The problem here is that the perfectionist in me feels like I can do more to get everything within the appropriate values because it seems as if other people are able to do so. And if they are, then I should be able to as well. But if no one is able to get every value perfect, then that is where I could tell myself to not worry about it.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,283
5,079
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
My ISC value is in just like yours, stays in one place and my airflow per rev is around 35, but those Kelfords run that way and I never had starting issues. Are you lean at startup or rich or do you know? You might try having your WB start displaying sooner to get a look in the first few seconds while you are starting up. Also, are you showing "Keystart" upon startup? Occasionally mine will not show keystart and it has a hard time starting, check your log and see if it is showing only on initial starting, it should read "1" during that time and that time only.
 

ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
My ISC value is in just like yours, stays in one place and my airflow per rev is around 35, but those Kelfords run that way and I never had starting issues. Are you lean at startup or rich or do you know? You might try having your WB start displaying sooner to get a look in the first few seconds while you are starting up. Also, are you showing "Keystart" upon startup? Occasionally mine will not show keystart and it has a hard time starting, check your log and see if it is showing only on initial starting, it should read "1" during that time and that time only.

You know it takes a while for my wideband to actually start displaying and idk why it's started doing that honestly. Is there a way I can get it to start displaying sooner?
Also, when it does finally go into closed loop and my wideband displaying my actual afrs, it shows that it is leaner and then richens up going down to 14.7ish or so finally. I'm not sure how or where to check for the "keystart" :idontknow:
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,283
5,079
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Yep, it is in settings Ashish. One of the tabs will have the delay for the WB to start reading. I saw yours a while back but didn't fool with it.
Log "Keystart" in captured and displayed values. You just want to make sure that when you are on the starter, the "Keystart" shows a number 1, meaning it knows you are trying to start the car and locks some of the fuel and timing. If it doesn't work, my car can be a biatch to start.

Here is where you will find those :
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ishnish

Proven Member
942
160
Jun 26, 2011
Modesto, California
Just verified that keystart does show a value of 1 while cranking and stops right when the car fires up.

Also, the "Delay for:" value is at 15. I've never messed with it.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,283
5,079
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Put it at 2 and see if the WB reads almost immediately (or in 2 seconds after start). I have always had mine delayed, so it warms up, but for just this instance you want to see how lean you are almost immediately so only use this as a test and then put the 15 second delay back in it. You may have to richen up the idle box just a bit in the VE table. I am like Snowboarder, if it is running pretty good, don't get hung up on those little things. I wonder why your car is so lean at start that you need to pedal it and then it seems to catch itself, is that right?
The "1" for keystart is proper so it is working, you don't have to keep logging it unless it starts giving you hard start problems.
 
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