NEED HELP upgrading Internals

[Avalanche419]

I'm looking at parts to upgrade the rods and pistons....I'm on a budget and don't have much...I don't understand what to look for when it comes to pistons and rods either. I found some eagle rods for the 420a at $300.00 and I found forged pistons at $115 on this website<br>http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/je-208477.asp<br><br>but what i don't understand is in parenthesis it says (late) on some (early) on others, what does that mean, and what does the mm mean...I know the ratio is for compression....I want to run a 150 shot of nitrous or better if I don't turbo, so what will i need to upgrade with....from reading It sounds like mostly just the lower end....So, what compression of pistons do i need for nitrous/turbo and what rods would hold up well.....I want to upgrade the cam shafts to crane shafts also, but is that as necessary as the rods and pistons, any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!<br><br>I also found a package set for the neon 420a http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
would this work for the eclipse 420a engine also, and i found this for the 420a eclipse http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EAGL...016QQitemZ260145834641QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW would either or both work?

 

[Blitzeclips]

I'm looking at parts to upgrade the rods and pistons....I'm on a budget and don't have much...I don't understand what to look for when it comes to pistons and rods either. I found some eagle rods for the 420a at $300.00 and I found forged pistons at $115 on this website<br>http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/je-208477.asp<br><br>but what i don't understand is in parenthesis it says (late) on some (early) on others, what does that mean, and what does the mm mean...I know the ratio is for compression....I want to run a 150 shot of nitrous or better if I don't turbo, so what will i need to upgrade with....from reading It sounds like mostly just the lower end....So, what compression of pistons do i need for nitrous/turbo and what rods would hold up well.....I want to upgrade the cam shafts to crane shafts also, but is that as necessary as the rods and pistons, any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!<br><br>I also found a package set for the neon 420a http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
would this work for the eclipse 420a engine also, and i found this for the 420a eclipse http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EAGL...016QQitemZ260145834641QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW would either or both work?

Heh. DUde, you've posted alot the past few days. And, ALOT of this information can be found in these forums. We don't spoon feed information here, especially on alot of your questions. Please, please, please do a search. It seems every other thread is a question by you that could have EASILY be found with a SEARCH BUTTON.

In all honesty, please don't take offense to this, but given the information I've seen you dish, and the questions you've been asking, please do alot of research before you start building your car. If you're owkring on a budget, attempting to build the intrnals, and you don't even know what 'mm' stands for, you probably aren't qualified to install or assemble any of those parts yets. Seriously man, you are asking too many questions to build the motor with that budget, unless you do it yourself.

If you upgrade the internals, I would go with a turbo. Just because you can have that power whenever you want, and push a nice amount of boost with the new motor.
Search please. ALL this information can be found due to the fact it's been asked many, many time before.

 

[Shadow98]

^^^ I wanted to say this, but didn't want to hurt his feelings.

Seriously 419, you need to use the search option. Most of your questions if not all have been answered before if not here than on 2gnt.com

Don't take offense, but you seriously don't seem to know much about even the basic.

 

[BigRand]

seriously man, I would either go turbo, or go nitrous (75 wet shot and a walbro 255) And at least determine if you like it, and want to go further with the car.

And while you are getting those, read all the tech guides on this site and on 2gnt.com you'll be surprised what you can learn, in a short amount of time thanks to these two websites. Don't forget vfaq, as well

 

[Avalanche419]

This is not a should i go nitrous or should i go turbo question, this is what companies make good internals for forced induction....I'm not asking you all what i should do, I'm asking when i use forced induction of any kind what should i look for, what do you all recommend for INTERNALS? I used the search engine, but no one really talks about what companies make good internals, or what internals need to be upgraded on the 420a, I know what everyone thinks i should do as far as forced induction, the question isn't about that, its about what compression ratios for forced induction should i look for and what should I upgrade on the bottom end....I did look, and I guess y'all didn't understand the question, because your saying go turbo, when I wasn't asking that question at all this time...And your right Shadow, I don't know much about this stuff, i'm trying to learn, and the mechanic work i'm not actually gonna do. This is why I'm on a budget for parts, because I pay alot to get it installed... i'm just buying the parts for the job......

Question I was actually asking<br><br>So, what compression of pistons do i need for nitrous/turbo and what rods would hold up well.....I want to upgrade the cam shafts to crane shafts also, but is that as necessary as the rods and pistons, any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!<br><br> And I do appreciate the help, I'll try to tone it down on all the questions, you guys have been a big help

 

[0RWHP]

I'm looking at parts to upgrade the rods and pistons....I'm on a budget and don't have much...I don't understand what to look for when it comes to pistons and rods either. I found some eagle rods for the 420a at $300.00 and I found forged pistons at $115 on this website<br>http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/je-208477.asp<br><br>but what i don't understand is in parenthesis it says (late) on some (early) on others, what does that mean, and what does the mm mean...I know the ratio is for compression....I want to run a 150 shot of nitrous or better if I don't turbo, so what will i need to upgrade with....from reading It sounds like mostly just the lower end....So, what compression of pistons do i need for nitrous/turbo and what rods would hold up well.....I want to upgrade the cam shafts to crane shafts also, but is that as necessary as the rods and pistons, any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!<br><br>I also found a package set for the neon 420a http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
would this work for the eclipse 420a engine also, and i found this for the 420a eclipse http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EAGL...016QQitemZ260145834641QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW would either or both work?

hey man before you start messing with internals you are going to have to figure out what you want nitrous or turbo i can tell you this know 150shot is a pretty big shot for a motor. Turbo you want less compression and nitrous you want more to an extent just do some research read threads.

 

[BigRand]

This is not a should i go nitrous or should i go turbo question, this is what companies make good internals for forced induction....I'm not asking you all what i should do, I'm asking when i use forced induction of any kind what should i look for, what do you all recommend for INTERNALS? I used the search engine, but no one really talks about what companies make good internals, or what internals need to be upgraded on the 420a, I know what everyone thinks i should do as far as forced induction, the question isn't about that, its about what compression ratios for forced induction should i look for and what should I upgrade on the bottom end....I did look, and I guess y'all didn't understand the question, because your saying go turbo, when I wasn't asking that question at all this time...And your right Shadow, I don't know much about this stuff, i'm trying to learn, and the mechanic work i'm not actually gonna do. This is why I'm on a budget for parts, because I pay alot to get it installed... i'm just buying the parts for the job......

Question I was actually asking<br><br>So, what compression of pistons do i need for nitrous/turbo and what rods would hold up well.....I want to upgrade the cam shafts to crane shafts also, but is that as necessary as the rods and pistons, any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!<br><br> And I do appreciate the help, I'll try to tone it down on all the questions, you guys have been a big help

Okay sorry to seem like were coming down so hard on you, but you have to understand were trying to save you from spending more money then you have too.

1) if your running nitrous, chances are your going to want a higher compression motor at least at or above the stock compreson level so if you if search on 2gnt.com you'll find that our stock comopression is 9:6:1, so if you look at most websites selling interal parts, 10:5:1 seems to be a pretty common option for high, or 8:8:1 or 8:6:1 for low compression

2) as for as compaines that make good internals, you have to search no futher then other members profiles and see what we are all running, wesico and JE pistions, Eagle rods, and for those people that can afford it, they are probably running Crower internals, or some custom made setup.

3) if your having a shop do all the work, you have to understand the processs that its gonna take.

Shop A uninstalls the motor and takes it to machine shop B, Machine shop A takes motor apart, cleans and hottanks it, and measures it for imperfections. At that point Machine shop B calls Shop A, and gives them the numbers. Shop A should call you and inform you of your options unless your paying them to do that too...but the options you should have are What type of compression you want in the motor, and what size pistons and rings to get based on how much cylinder wall is left on the block. There are other options pertaining to bottom end rebuild but I'll skip them for now.

I can't stress this enough, if your not taking apart the motor yourself, you should not buy any internals for the motor until a machine shop has told you what you need or what your options are.


4) Camshafts and top end work

If your going to use aftermarket camshafts, then you need aftermarket topend internals, such as valve springs and retainers, and lifters, otherwise you risk the idea of floating a valve wich could destroy the head and a pistion in the process.

They have different types of lobe grinds depending on if your turbo or nitrous or NA, but whatever your doing anything less then a stage 2 is probably not worth the money.

5) what internals need to be upgraded

Well myfriend I'm gonna assume your going to be using nitrous so I'll give you a list but I could be missing some items

Bottom end
Pistions (w/rings)
Rods
Main bearings/Rod bearings
oil pump
water pump


Top end
(if your usings cams)
Cams
Rockers
Lifters
Valve springs/retainers
valves
valve stems/seals


I know I misssing somethings but pretty much just go look at topend or bottom end kit that howellautomotive or concept illusions sells.

6)note to original poster

And most people weren't telling you to go turbo, but to make up your mind, from previous threads it sounded like you wanted to go nitrous, but were still leaning towards a turbo install, and when you asked a broad spectrum quesiton like what kinds of internals are good for running a 150 shot or any kind of forced induction, and saying you were on a budget, It didn't really sound like you were completely ready to go into the internal aspect of tuning without even added the power adder of your choice first.


7) searching

All of this information can be found by searching, I'm not saying sometimes you can't just ask, but realize that your going to get flamed for asking certain questions. The best way to get a response is by showing that you did some reserach on your own and let us know what you've found so we can clear up certain things and add to it.

Look, I know that we seem like were some kind of faction that our moto is search or die, but sometimes when you've been around here for a while, and you see the same question pop up four or five times a month in can take a toll on some of the veterans here, I know some people move on to other cars, and don't post as much as they used to or help out as much as they used too, and when I see that I feel like its just getting to boring for them to stick around answering the same questions.

I miss guys like DSMcrazy or GSgoignFast posting on here every other day , but I guess we all gotta move on sometimes, I just liked seeing this place as fun for both the new and old.

Okay sorry for getting all novel on you guys, I'll stop

 

[Avalanche419]

Thanx BigRand, I appreciate it....Thanx for the break down, and i'll try to watch asking all the questions, I need to search 1st from what it sounds like.....Anyways, I decided I'm going to save and go turbo.....I decicde that its more boost on stock internals which means I can worry about upgrades later and get up around 210 wheel horsepower compared to nitrous 75 shot at i'm guessing 180-185whp.....and if i decide to, i could add a small shot of nitrous later on....So i'm going to save and buy the turbo in a couple of months.....Thanx for all the help, I appreciate it!!!!!

 

[McFox]

Are you planning to go turbo with stock internals? If you are I wouldn't plan on moving anywhere near past 5psi.

 

[Locke]

Are you planning to go turbo with stock internals? If you are I wouldn't plan on moving anywhere near past 5psi.

Stock internals can safely handle ~8psi with an intercooler. (Who doesn't have an intercooler?) 5psi without.

 

[eclipsers-t]

Stock internals can safely handle ~8psi with an intercooler. (Who doesn't have an intercooler?) 5psi without.

Well put Locke!

 

[Shadow98]

Are you planning to go turbo with stock internals? If you are I wouldn't plan on moving anywhere near past 5psi.

If you really are turbo'd you should know you can run 8 psi without a problem, just like Locke said. Your profile is kinda fishy BTW...

 

[Slo2gen]

Just to give you an idea, I have AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm throttlebody, AFX UDP, No PS, No A/C, Ebay 4-1 header/downpipe, OEM cat, 2.5" tsudo catback, Nitrous Outlet wet kit 75 shot tuned. I put down a peak of 200 ftlbs of tq and 177 whp on a dynojet dyno. With that said, I am ready for turbo!