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2G Name that sound (video)

TheFlashDSM

Supporting Member
1,075
274
Feb 18, 2010
stony brook, New_York
Well this happened after the dyno the other day.
idle no sound, at about 1200rpm the tapping starts, then will go away at idle again?
So far I’ve change new rockers (cast) new lifters
Still has sound.
I’m trying to get some input before I rip the head off.
1g head on 2g block
Head work
+1/+1mm valves
Super tech comp plus valves
Super tech duel 9*lbs spring
Gsc 280’s
1/2 boosted head studs
I will be doing more diagnostic tomorrow, again before I rip the head off
Cylinder 1-2-3-4 i labeled from passenger to driver
Compress 140* cyl 1 100 / cyl 2 100 / cyl 3 140 / cyl 4 120. I will be running test again when motor is cold tomorrow
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DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,174
1,756
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
Totally no offense and I don't know if this is related or not to the sound. But I wanted to let you know that I just noticed that you had the solid lifters installed improperly in one of your videos. In the video, you set the lash as zero but you don't want "Zero lash" with solid lifters in a running car. Zero lash with solid lifters is only when you degree cams, not for running. Even if you have cams for hydraulic lifters you still need some clearance for heat expansion (I see in the video you have GSC cams). Otherwise that zero lash would cause valves not closing/seating properly once the engine gets hot, and the heat from combustion chamber may burn/overheat valves or damage some.
You mentioned that you replaced lifters. I don't know if you replaced them with solid lifters again or with hydraulic lifters. But in case if you still have solid lifters, making this kind of sound is normal due to the clearance. Maybe the sound started because the clearance got loose on some lifters.
 

TheFlashDSM

Supporting Member
1,075
274
Feb 18, 2010
stony brook, New_York
Totally no offense and I don't know if this is related or not to the sound. But I wanted to let you know that I just noticed that you had the solid lifters installed improperly in one of your videos. In the video, you set the lash as zero but you don't want "Zero lash" with solid lifters in a running car. Zero lash with solid lifters is only when you degree cams, not for running. Even if you have cams for hydraulic lifters you still need some clearance for heat expansion (I see in the video you have GSC cams). Otherwise that zero lash would cause valves not closing/seating properly once the engine gets hot, and the heat from combustion chamber may burn/overheat valves or damage some.
You mentioned that you replaced lifters. I don't know if you replaced them with solid lifters again or with hydraulic lifters. But in case if you still have solid lifters, making this kind of sound is normal due to the clearance. Maybe the sound started because the clearance got loose on some lifters.
good point, here's a little incite on how I set up my solids. basically I say zero but it was really like 2 pieces of paper gap. I then took the car to dyno session 1 and the tuner said I have a higher chance of throwing a rocker. after he said that I put in hydraulic lifters. now dyno session 2 (last week) this noise started. so I replace all lifters with new hydraulic ones. I noticed that when I went from solids to hydraulic I lost like 5-10psi compression, ran the car to "bleed them" and it was the same, so I might just put my solids back in tomorrow and see if it fixes the issue, as I still think something is going on via hydraulic lifters.
 

DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,174
1,756
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
good point, here's a little incite on how I set up my solids. basically I say zero but it was really like 2 pieces of paper gap. I then took the car to dyno session 1 and the tuner said I have a higher chance of throwing a rocker. after he said that I put in hydraulic lifters. now dyno session 2 (last week) this noise started. so I replace all lifters with new hydraulic ones. I noticed that when I went from solids to hydraulic I lost like 5-10psi compression, ran the car to "bleed them" and it was the same, so I might just put my solids back in tomorrow and see if it fixes the issue, as I still think something is going on via hydraulic lifters.
Since you have already ran solid lifters with improper clearance, the worst case scenario would be valves/valve seats already got damaged, burnt, deformed by heat slightly due to too tight clearance and causing compression leak. I would do a leak down test for making sure.
I am not saying this is your case, just mentioned as one of possibilities. The issue could be something else or just related to the hydraulic lifters like many cases. But anyways running solid lifters with cams for hydraulic lifters is not a good idea. Yes you can run, but not proper way and not recommended. The proper way is with cams that have lobes for solid lifters and adjust the clearance properly on each lifter.
 
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TheFlashDSM

Supporting Member
1,075
274
Feb 18, 2010
stony brook, New_York
Since you have already ran solid lifters with improper clearance, the worst case scenario would be valves/valve seats already got damaged, burnt, deformed by heat slightly due to too tight clearance and causing compression leak. I would do a leak down test for making sure.
I am not saying this is your case, just mentioned as one of possibilities. The issue could be something else or just related to the hydraulic lifters like many cases. But anyways running solid lifters with cams for hydraulic lifters is not a good idea. Yes you can run, but not proper way and not recommended. The proper way is with cams that have lobes for solid lifters and adjust the clearance properly on each lifter.
yea i think what I'm gonna do today it, swap 4 lifters at a time with my solids and see if i can narrow down the cylinder that's making the sound and go from there for now

Here’s a better video of the sound (longer)
You can hear at idle no noise, but once I rev it a tad the sound appears. I’m going to be checking out again today! I’ll post an update


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DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,174
1,756
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
Compress 140* cyl 1 100 / cyl 2 100 / cyl 3 140 / cyl 4 120. I will be running test again when motor is cold tomorrow
So this compression test result was with hot temp? Was it like this since before? I can't be sure if the sound and this low compression are related but anyways I would do a leak down test first.
 

TheFlashDSM

Supporting Member
1,075
274
Feb 18, 2010
stony brook, New_York
So this compression test result was with hot temp? Was it like this since before? I can't be sure if the sound and this low compression are related but anyways I would do a leak down test first.
Okay… here’s the scoop.
1st. me and Brian put back in the solid lifters and adjusted them, and now I have 120-140 across the board. Still have noise

2nd. Then we drained the oil, had a shimmer to it. We removed the oil filter and cut the lid off using tin snips, AND…. There was a ton of metal flakes (bearing material)

I’m going to drop the pan this week and see what is going on, hopefully the damage is minimal and I can slap a new bearing in it and call it a day!

Picture is inside the oil filter!

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DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,174
1,756
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
1st. me and Brian put back in the solid lifters and adjusted them, and now I have 120-140 across the board. Still have noise
You have lower compression with the hydraulic lifters than with solid lifters because probably you have low oil pressure at the cylinder head due to spun bearings or some other cause. The low oil pressure at the head doesn't affect the valve timing with the solid lifters, but it does with the hydraulic lifters.
2nd. Then we drained the oil, had a shimmer to it. We removed the oil filter and cut the lid off using tin snips, AND…. There was a ton of metal flakes (bearing material)
I’m going to drop the pan this week and see what is going on, hopefully the damage is minimal and I can slap a new bearing in it and call it a day!
I'm sorry to hear that and to say this but once you spun the bearings, rebuilding the engine is usually the only solution 😢
 

Igotadsm

Probationary Member
7
4
Apr 7, 2022
Hesperia, California
Low oil pressure or one Lifter is not getting enough oil .clogged oil ports, oil diverter
Remove your valve cover clean every oil port/ holes / galleries plugs an everything the supplies oil for lifters an cams on the head
Just my thoughts you know
 

DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,174
1,756
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
Why would you run solid lifters?
Generally speaking, more reliable at high RPM, more direct response, less loss etc. You cancel hydraulic lifters, so theoretically it wouldn't be affected by insufficient oil control anymore. You eliminate the negative factors of hydraulic lifters. Also you would be able to prevent the risk to drop exhaust rocker arms by hitting an aggressive limiter that utilizes ignition cut.
You "can" use solid lifters with cams for hydraulic lifters but is not the proper way. To maximally and safely have the pros of solid lifters, you have to use the cams that have lobes designed for solid lifters, such as Kelford, Tomei, Jun's solid lifter cams, and you follow the clearance that is recommended by the manufacturer of your cam set. If you use cams for hydraulic lifters with solid lifters, you would need much tighter clearance, and improper adjustment (either way too tight/too loose) may cause valve damage.
There are cons. It would obviously be noisier, costs more money and time to start, needs to check clearance sometimes, less off the shelf cam set for solid lifters exist, If you are not used to use the BLE jam-nut style solid lifters, it's kind of PITA to adjust clearance since just a little bit of different tightening torque would easily make a .0005"-.001" difference on clearance. Tomei style sold lifters would be easier to set clearance since they utilize shims, but much more expensive and you need to have all shims you need each time when you adjust, otherwise you need to order and wait until delivered.
 
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