ECMlink Nagging Knock

[nice97civic]

I'm having a really hard time getting this knock to go away unless I run ridiculously low AFR. I have not replaced the knock sensor as of yet, motor has 74k original miles on it, 20g, cams, intake, exhaust, evo 560's, walbro 190. Other than considering the knock to be "phantom" I don't really know what else to do. Runs as expected with 9.5:1 afr or 11:1 afr under boost. Please help.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Let me guess, you are running 91 or 93 octane. I can't get more than 5* of timing on gasoline anymore which is why I moved over to E85. I can run 14+ degrees of timing on it. On gas, I was limited to only 5* and still seeing a small amount of knock retard. Once on E85, the timing issue went away. (not really went away, but is covered up).
I also start with the least aggressive maps (2g) that I can. I looked at your log but that thing is SHORT so not much to look at with my Link on a Stick.
Marty

 

[nice97civic]

I'm running 93 only yep. Straight E85 is pretty tough to come by and I dont have fuel setup for E85. I could run something like E30.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

IDT the E30 is enough to combat the pre-ignition. 50% of E will quelch it usually, but like you said, you have a hard time finding it. You will need to back the timing down, which will decrease performance but will save the motor. I once thought I was getting "phantom" knock at 6*, NO WAY, so I moved the knock sensor range WAY up high and went and did a pull. It ran good, for most of the pull (on 91octane), then melted a ring land down to the first ring and I drove home on 2 3/4 cylinders. I had to pull the motor and rebuild it all because of timing, so don't try to cheat it. Back the timing off and be satisfied. Maybe a tuner will see this and be able to pull some tricks, but my tuner couldn't.

 

[nice97civic]

Out of curiosity, how much of the fuel system did you upgrade for E85? I dont have SS lines from the tank to the pump but do have SS lines from the pump the the rail.

 

[nice97civic]

I also lied so I can get E85, PA just likes to call it Flex Fuel however my question about fueling components remains the same

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I found the log that I ruined the motor on. It is the "Misfire after pull" log. The one labeled "Drive 2 matts with spirit" is the log just before I moved the knock sensor up to 7000 rpm, at which point I melted a piston due to pre-ignition.
Feel free to gander over them. Ask questions as you feel, I don't mind admitting that was a big mistake, to not trust what my knock sensor was telling me.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am running STOCK lines with a 525 Hellcat pump and FIC 2150 injectors. It has a issue with small lines so anytime you can increase the VOLUME of fuel to the rail, you are helping the motor out.
I am running a Wally 255 with FIC 1120s on E on my White 90 GSX with the stock turbo setup. It is no monster like my other cars but is a lot of fun still!

 

[nice97civic]

I have a walbro 255 I can swap in along with 1100cc injectors. In your opinion will that suffice to run E85?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yep, does on my car
I'm home, let me look at my IDCs.
My 1120s are running at 64% of their duty cycle on E85 and my little turbo/stock MAF setup.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I suspect you'll run out of fuel around 400hp with that pump? Not sure, but you can easily look up the max on a 255. The gold standard right now is a walbro 525 and some hiz FIC 1650s or 2150s. Those will get 99.9% of dsmers where they want to go for very little money. Don't even HAVE to upgrade your lines but that could help in some situations.

 

[nice97civic]

dang I shouldve done some ecmlink logs before buying two sets of injectors and the 255 . Car was previously running evoscan and frankly im amazed based on the knock numbers that it's not completely destroyed.

 

[nice97civic]

Yep, does on my car
I'm home, let me look at my IDCs.
My 1120s are running at 64% of their duty cycle on E85 and my little turbo/stock MAF setup.

Curious what numbers you put down with that setup? I'm not one to care about hp numbers cause its a daily street car but I'm always interested.

 

[jed344]

The 255 pump equipped cars i have tuned appear to run out around low to mid 400whp depending on few factors. E30 works so much better then premium pump gas. I tuned a 9:1 6 bolt with bolt on hx35 first on crap 91 and we got stuck around 20-23psi with any decent timing numbers. Then put the car on E30 and ended up maxing the turbo out around low 30's for boost and high teens on timing. The turbo was a 8 blade hx35 in bep .55AR housing so anything over 30psi didn't show any real gains. For injectors i was at 90% IDC on fic 1050cc back in the day around mid to high 400whp on e85. 1250cc will stretch into low 500whp range with a walbro 450 or larger pump. I currently am using 2150cc and 525 pump with bulkhead fitting larger lines. I log fuel press and have gotten in the range of the limit of what the 525 can do. I do not remember the lb/min that was but it was at 37-38psi on a 62mm.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Curious what numbers you put down with that setup? I'm not one to care about hp numbers cause its a daily street car but I'm always interested.

That car is just putting out around 275 and the same torque. I am still playing with it since it is pretty much stock (no wideband to tune with) except injectors and Link.

 

[nice97civic]

Pretty solid! Semi-related question. ECMLink says that it's possible to run SD without an IAT Sensor, which is what I'm doing now, I just need the bung welded in. That being said, how dangerous, or not so, is it to tune with SD and no IAT Sensor?

 

[nice97civic]

Okay so I put the stock 2g afr table in, still running ~17psi and did a few pulls. Most knock I saw was .7deg retard and I believe that was a third gear pull but otherwise there is zero knock, even with afr table being pegged at 9.5-9.6 at max load and rpm. I was half hoping the rich condition was causing knock, but this log appears to disagree and now I'm really at a loss. Apologies for the length of the log, I didnt feel like cutting it up.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The 2g tables are the most modest tables and what a lot of folks start with. I hope you can get the car more timing with some E30 or something like that. Before I had a flex sensor, I just had a min map for gas and a max map for E.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I'm not sure what you're at a loss for. That's not very much knock and is within the range of acceptable levels of knock in a tune. Knock can be picked up through engine/chassis noise or just a plain old knock sensor.

 

[nice97civic]

The AFR's are terrible and its awful listening to the motor chug fuel. I'd like to be up in the 11.5AFR range but thats not happening without knock retard of 5+

 

[nice97civic]

I'm not sure what you're at a loss for. That's not very much knock and is within the range of acceptable levels of knock in a tune. Knock can be picked up through engine/chassis noise or just a plain old knock sensor.

Which log are you referring to? The most recent one I'm fine with <1deg knock retard but the AFR are just so rich and the car is a slug.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I would advise you to pay a well-known tuner to tune the car via remote tune. It's worth the money and you'll gain a lot of knowledge.

 

[nice97civic]

I'm not opposed to that at all. The reason I posted is because the knock seems to be coming out of nowhere. 17psi no knock at 5100rpm but 3* knock retard at 5200 rpm, fueling is the same, throttle position same, etc. That's what's not making much sense.

 

[nice97civic]

So after some reading, seems my base timing may be off. See attached for timing drawing (hooray paint). Mark is on the T but by all accounts should be between the T and 10. Being that its a 2g, how do I use link to adjust this? Can I adjust the timing slider 5* being that I'm using SD?

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