My new e85 16g setup!!

[JayRolla]

That's awesome, I can't wait to see what my car is going to pull like on e85 at 20+ psi - it pulls pretty good now on pump gas at stock boost. It's going to be sic... Let me know if you get any dyno numbers up.

its like night and day. I couldnt go back to anything under 20psi on this 16g. I would just be sad.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

its like night and day. I couldnt go back to anything under 20psi on this 16g. I would just be sad.

Yeah i'm tired of running under 15 psi, when i hear of dudes with the same stock motor running 20+
Stimulus check please come soon.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Yeah i'm tired of running under 15 psi, when i hear of dudes with the same stock motor running 20+
Stimulus check please come soon.

WOW. your still waiting on those? I got mine almost three weeks ago!! WTF

Used it to buy transmission parts.

 

[JeffGST]

its like night and day. I couldnt go back to anything under 20psi on this 16g. I would just be sad.

Yes, E85 is amazing stuff. I have my boost set at 35 PSI (65lbs/min airflow) everyday of the week with less than 2 counts of knock.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, E85 is amazing stuff. I have my boost set at 35 PSI (65lbs/min airflow) everyday of the week with less than 2 counts of knock.

Yea, my brother has 0 knock at 28psi. My buddys all run 70lb/min turbos at 35psi and 0 knock. One is building a monster mirage with dual fuel rails. Time for some preignition issues!!!!

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, my brother has 0 knock at 28psi. My buddys all run 70lb/min turbos at 35psi and 0 knock. One is building a monster mirage with dual fuel rails. Time for some preignition issues!!!!

My new wastegate cap and spring should be here next week to allow me to run over 24 PSI but right now i'm getting away with 24 psi with timing moving in a linear fashion from 28* @ 7psi down to 23* at 24 psi and i'm getting zero knock. And mind you my timing doensn't "build up" like a stock ECU. As soon as i put the hammer down my timing is all the way advanced only declining a few degrees with higher boost and even then 23* is stilla pretty good advance...E85 is abslutely a hot rodder's dream, 105 octane that acts like C16 for only a 1/4th of the cost per gallon

 

[JayRolla]

Its funny because sometimes Im in the low timing map and other runs im in the high. Madders how dense the air is I guess. Last nights run I had 25* advance by redline with 3 counts of knock. Others I only get 17* max. So im going to turn the boost up a little and see if I always hit the hi timing map.

 

[turboglenn]

Its funny because sometimes Im in the low timing map and other runs im in the high. Madders how dense the air is I guess. Last nights run I had 25* advance by redline with 3 counts of knock. Others I only get 17* max. So im going to turn the boost up a little and see if I always hit the hi timing map.

I guess this is one case where having too big of an injector for an SAFC (thus putting you in a high timing map ) would end up being a good thing! But the only way i could see more boost putting you in the higher map was if you had to subtract more fuel from the "HI" settings on your SAFC. otherwise with increased air flow you will end up in the lower timing map more often.

 

[JayRolla]

You are right I meant to say I want to be in the lo map, . Im still at 0* BTDC and want to bring it up to 5* which would put me at 22* max as long as I stay in the lo map. Idle is not to great with 1200's, safc and 0* base timing.

 

[turboglenn]

You are right I meant to say I want to be in the lo map, . Im still at 0* BTDC and want to bring it up to 5* which would put me at 22* max as long as I stay in the lo map. Idle is not to great with 1200's, safc and 0* base timing.

I bet not! Man talk about pushing the SAFC to it's limits, a set of 1200's should do it


I would say turn up the boost or richen it up (or both slightly) to try and consistantly get in teh lower map and then advance base timing back to 5* to get that idle back to normal at idle.

Keep thsi thread updated bro, can't wait to hear soem more results from your particular setup and E85, It may just be the next best budget combo your average joe can get his hands on (sAFC, 1200's and E85) That is as long as everything continues to provide positive results!

 

[JayRolla]

I bet not! Man talk about pushing the SAFC to it's limits, a set of 1200's should do it


I would say turn up the boost or richen it up (or both slightly) to try and consistantly get in teh lower map and then advance base timing back to 5* to get that idle back to normal at idle.

Keep thsi thread updated bro, can't wait to hear soem more results from your particular setup and E85, It may just be the next best budget combo your average joe can get his hands on (sAFC, 1200's and E85) That is as long as everything continues to provide positive results!

That is my goal. Budget all the way. Everything I have on my car is in a budget and the cheapest possible but still max out this 16g. 400whp is my goal with stock longblock and 16g.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I think I read or 'heard' from somewhere that in order to run E85 or any alcohol-based fuel you need a specially treated fuel rail, lines, and some other stuff. Is this true? I understand that you need 'twice' the injector for E85 than for gasoline. I've been reading a little about ethanol being used for higher performance fuel over gasoline, but still dont quite have a picture of it in my head. Only what limited information I have read. Can somebody either confirm or deny this?

 

[JayRolla]

No you dont need to treat the lines or rail. But corrosion could still happen since no one has ran it in a dsm for 5 or more years. Its like race gas at the pump and you need about 30% more fuel. Read over all the e85 threads on this site and your answers will be answered.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Believe me!! I do my research. I may not come accross everything within a subject, but I am far from making uninformed decisions. I've been all over Google about Ethanol vs Gasoline (pros and cons of both) and although Ethanol is 'less expensive' it does contain less energy than the 'slightly more expensive' (relatively speaking) gasoline. Im not biased in any way, just being objective about what I am reading.

Are there custom fuel rails and filters treated for alcohol based fuel available for DSMs? Not yet? I havent really seen too many but havent looked too hard either.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Believe me!! I do my research. I may not come accross everything within a subject, but I am far from making uninformed decisions. I've been all over Google about Ethanol vs Gasoline (pros and cons of both) and although Ethanol is 'less expensive' it does contain less energy than the 'slightly more expensive' (relatively speaking) gasoline. Im not biased in any way, just being objective about what I am reading.

Are there custom fuel rails and filters treated for alcohol based fuel available for DSMs? Not yet? I havent really seen too many but havent looked too hard either.

Just upgrade your lines then and your fuel filter, the pump, tank, and rail will be fine.

 

[turboglenn]

Your biggest problem with the stock fuel system is going to be the filter and banjo bolt/line from filter to rail The banjo bolt and line are the most restrictive and the filter clogs FAST when going to e85 because it cleans EVERYTHING out of your tank.

Get yourself a Wally 255HP and THIS FILTER AND LINE and you will be fine. guya have made 500 HP on stock lines and rail with just an upgraded pump AFPR and filter and new line eliminating teh banjo bolt. The filter linked above is what i now have, just make sure to buy a stainless steel 10micron filter element when you order it (if you do order it) as it comes with another paper element that will not only have a short life, but is not able to bea cleaned...the SS can be cleaned and re-used.

 

[JayRolla]

Believe me!! I do my research. I may not come accross everything within a subject, but I am far from making uninformed decisions. I've been all over Google about Ethanol vs Gasoline (pros and cons of both) and although Ethanol is 'less expensive' it does contain less energy than the 'slightly more expensive' (relatively speaking) gasoline. Im not biased in any way, just being objective about what I am reading.

Are there custom fuel rails and filters treated for alcohol based fuel available for DSMs? Not yet? I havent really seen too many but havent looked too hard either.

Remember the main reason too switch is for performance not gas mileage. The being cheaper is just a plus. You will lose gas mileage though.

 

[turboglenn]

Remember the main reason too switch is for performance not gas mileage. The being cheaper is just a plus. You will lose gas mileage though.

With a good tune you won't loose too much, or at least i didn't. On my pump gas maps, certain areas under light to medium boost levels (5 - 12 psi) i had to run richer on pump gas for the motor to be happy (say 12:1 - 11.5:1) where as on E85 i run about 13.2:1 up utill about 7-9 psi then only go to 12.5:1 in that area. Also under light load steady state cruising i have the closed loop setup to operate at about 15.7 - 16.2:1 AFR and the motor runs great. I tune to around 11.2 - 11.5:1 under WOT.

Being able to run/tune leaner in these areas helps balance out the extra usage when you are comparing it it to regular petrolium. I averaged about 16MPG in the city on pump gas. On E85 i am getting from 14.5 - 15.5 MPG in the city. On the highway i'm sure i could easily get around 25 MPG or more!! i'm going to KC in the next few days, so i'll take the laptop and see how well i can do with E85 on steady state long highway drives

A little story that's kinda off topic :

One night i was tuning with pump gas on the highway late at night in the middle of no where, my girl was driving and i kept having her lay into it amd holding the boost adn RPM steady with the brakes for mid range stuff..

I was tuning in 4th adn 5th gear doing everything from WOT to cruising (basically a full remap) and i got 112 miles out of the first 1/4 of a tank. Now i don't know how much was in that first 1/4, but for how hard we were running the car, to this day i cannot figure out how/why the mileage was so damn good that night (because i'd like to get that more often)....the only thing i can think of is that we were averaging 75 MPH, never stopping or taking off from red-lights. But still, being WOT at 20psi during a good 1/3 of the ride i'm amazed!

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

With a good tune you won't loose too much, or at least i didn't. On my pump gas maps, certain areas under light to medium boost levels (5 - 12 psi) i had to run richer on pump gas for the motor to be happy (say 12:1 - 11.5:1) where as on E85 i run about 13.2:1 up utill about 7-9 psi then only go to 12.5:1 in that area. Also under light load steady state cruising i have the closed loop setup to operate at about 15.7 - 16.2:1 AFR and the motor runs great. I tune to around 11.2 - 11.5:1 under WOT.

Being able to run/tune leaner in these areas helps balance out the extra usage when you are comparing it it to regular petrolium. I averaged about 16MPG in the city on pump gas. On E85 i am getting from 14.5 - 15.5 MPG in the city. On the highway i'm sure i could easily get around 25 MPG or more!! i'm going to KC in the next few days, so i'll take the laptop and see how well i can do with E85 on steady state long highway drives

A little story that's kinda off topic :

One night i was tuning with pump gas on the highway late at night in the middle of no where, my girl was driving and i kept having her lay into it amd holding the boost adn RPM steady with the brakes for mid range stuff..

I was tuning in 4th adn 5th gear doing everything from WOT to cruising (basically a full remap) and i got 112 miles out of the first 1/4 of a tank. Now i don't know how much was in that first 1/4, but for how hard we were running the car, to this day i cannot figure out how/why the mileage was so damn good that night (because i'd like to get that more often)....the only thing i can think of is that we were averaging 75 MPH, never stopping or taking off from red-lights. But still, being WOT at 20psi during a good 1/3 of the ride i'm amazed!

Your gas mileage is right in line with mine, but I'm still 'stuck' on stock fuel for now The best I have gotten in city driving is 17MPG with 3 miles of it HW to the airport every day for school. I have gotten a best of 31MPG all HW driving with a little bit of road rage boosting. HKS 264/272.

I predict a brake-job for you in the near future.....I cracked the lining on my brake pads riding them in boost trying to troubleshoot something...

 

[turboglenn]

Your gas mileage is right in line with mine, but I'm still 'stuck' on stock fuel for now The best I have gotten in city driving is 17MPG with 3 miles of it HW to the airport every day for school. I have gotten a best of 31MPG all HW driving with a little bit of road rage boosting. HKS 264/272.

I predict a brake-job for you in the near future.....I cracked the lining on my brake pads riding them in boost trying to troubleshoot something...

It always makes me feel better to know that my mileage isn't WAY otu of line compared to other DSM'ers out there. I hear stories of 300+ miles to a tank and just start to think something's seriously wrong with my car...then i remember "oh...1000cc injectors, 255 pump, big turbo, always spooling from redlight to redlight...oh yea, i get crappy mileage"

Yea, the motor is definitely out driving the brakes in a heart beat. There's blue chatter/heat marks on both my rotors and that's just from getting into it on the road here and there in 2nd and 3rd only to discover i got going way too fast way too quickly

I'm torn between bigger brakes and teh ability to run my slicks on 15'' rims. I need to find out what's the biggest brakes i can get that fit under a 15'' rim (i don't think the stock GSX stuff will) but i have a GSX front brake setup with slotted rotors i can get here very soon just for doing teh swap out to his new brakes, so i'm going to do it as soon as he gets teh wilwoods...sorry to go OT...back to our regularly scheduled prgram

 

[JayRolla]

It always makes me feel better to know that my mileage isn't WAY otu of line compared to other DSM'ers out there. I hear stories of 300+ miles to a tank and just start to think something's seriously wrong with my car...then i remember "oh...1000cc injectors, 255 pump, big turbo, always spooling from redlight to redlight...oh yea, i get crappy mileage"

Yea, the motor is definitely out driving the brakes in a heart beat. There's blue chatter/heat marks on both my rotors and that's just from getting into it on the road here and there in 2nd and 3rd only to discover i got going way too fast way too quickly

I'm torn between bigger brakes and teh ability to run my slicks on 15'' rims. I need to find out what's the biggest brakes i can get that fit under a 15'' rim (i don't think the stock GSX stuff will) but i have a GSX front brake setup with slotted rotors i can get here very soon just for doing teh swap out to his new brakes, so i'm going to do it as soon as he gets teh wilwoods...sorry to go OT...back to our regularly scheduled prgram

I believe you gas mileage is good because your running real lean during cruising. Everyone I know thats ran e85 said running in the 16afr's is dangerous and can burn up a valve.

 

[turboglenn]

I believe you gas mileage is good because your running real lean during cruising. Everyone I know thats ran e85 said running in the 16afr's is dangerous and can burn up a valve.

Yea, i think some one else had warned me about th esame thing. My theory is that i've ran a couple hundred miles on the interstate running as lean as 17-19:1 on pump gas and never had any issues. And as i pointed out in another thread, honda experimented with lean burn models of the accord and accord wagon that ranas lean as 22:1 on highway and during warmup after teh first 30 seconds of afterstart.

 

[JayRolla]

Yea, i think some one else had warned me about th esame thing. My theory is that i've ran a couple hundred miles on the interstate running as lean as 17-19:1 on pump gas and never had any issues. And as i pointed out in another thread, honda experimented with lean burn models of the accord and accord wagon that ranas lean as 22:1 on highway and during warmup after teh first 30 seconds of afterstart.

Good point, when tuning the lo throttle on the wbo2, what throttle percentage should I be at. I mean 10% throttle and 15% throttle drastically changes the wbo2 reading.

 

[JayRolla]

Well I got the car tuned out pretty good now, lo throttle hits 15.5 afr lowest under any load. WOT is 10.9-11.1 afr. Here is a third gear data log. Boost hits 30psi and by 7000rpms its holding 26psi.

RPM INJD KNCK TIMA
2800 14.8 0 25
3200 26.5 0 19
3600 39.8 0 18
4000 57.0 0 11
4200 57.0 4 9
4600 60.1 3 13
5000 64.0 2 15
5400 65.6 1 18
5800 65.8 0 20
6000 67.1 0 23
6400 67.9 0 22
6800 68.0 0 22

Im going to have it dynoed and then take it too the track. Im going to test this clutch and tranny setup pretty hard. I just have to wait till my fiance has our second little girl. She is due June 24th so its pretty close.

 

[turboglenn]

Wow those are great timing numbers. Looks like you got a pretty good tune out of it, especially at 30psi. Keep us updated with the track and dyno results.