My build list:

[Spoolin_TSI]

Whats up guys? Im Phil, I just got my Talon running again and im looking to build my 2nd 6 bolt Heres what i have gathered, I want the motor to look somewhat stock, Please tell me what you think and if i need to change or look at other opitons, Ill be using this as a track car and random street racing

Block:
Eagle Rods
Ross Pistons .020 over (8.3.1 comp)
Balance shaft delete kit


Between the Block and the Head:
Cometic head gasket (4 layer)
ARP head studs

Head:
4 angle valve job
1mm Over sized valves
B/C stage 2 valve train
B/C 272 OR 280 cams
Ports gasket matched
Evo III Turbo manifold
Cyclone Intake manifold
20g


Fuel:
550cc injecters
Walbro 255

Tunning:
AEM wide band
S-afc
AEM boost controller


Ill also have:
3in Turbo back with a O2 automosphere dump
FMIC with 2.5 or 3in IC pipeing


What else should i look at? or change?

Thanks
-Phil

 

[Joe Cool]

Well I'd personally get DSMLink V3 to tune with, it's a lot more specific and advanced, it also allows control over ignition.

Only 550's on an engine like that? What are your specific goals? Why the 20G? I'm thinking your injectors will need to be much bigger unless your goals are simply reliability and a fresh rebuild. You will not easily be seeing even 12's with injectors so small. Give yourself some room to play with.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Yeah, im used to a 16g and a 18g on my old set up. and the guy that tuned my car said that 550cc were just right, But a 20g is bigger then an 18g so well see, What size should i get? im only goin to use this on the street once in awhile, but i want it to be a track car, where i live we only have a 1/8 mile, but i would like to go to a 1/4 mile once in awhile


Thanks
-Phil

 

[1990gsx1781]

i would go bigger then 550's on the setup and with dsm link also. but sounds like its gonna be a beast

 

[Joe Cool]

From my experience I've seen most guys say that you shouldn't need much bigger than 6xx's for the 16G. I am not certain of the flow difference but I would probably go with something like 950's on the 20G. They may be a little bit more than you need but you don't want to be too close to 100% IDC and you might as well get a little bigger in case you plan on running an even bigger turbo in the future or if you wish to push it further and start needing more fuel at the top end.

I am personally going with 1150's for my E316G but only because I may or may not be running E85 at some points. If E85 is an option where you live I would consider running that as well. It's a beautiful race gas that you can get for less than regular gasoline but you just need to feed more of it to the engine to run properly.

I'm not 100% positive of the flow on the 20G but I think you might consider looking into a 50trim, that may be a more desireable turbo for you.

But I will repeat it again as it can't be stressed enough: Get something better than SAFC. Get yourself DSMLink.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Thanks guys, But what size should i run? how about some 650s or 750s? Like i said i would like to keep it looking somewhat stock, but later down the road ill prob get a Different Turbo manifold and intake manifold, Im just goin to use the best of the stock manifolds till i get some extra cash, this build will be enough as it is , ill have to save a lil bit more to get the new manifolds


Thanks
-Phil

 

[1990gsx1781]

Thanks guys, But what size should i run? how about some 650s or 750s? Like i said i would like to keep it looking somewhat stock, but later down the road ill prob get a Different Turbo manifold and intake manifold, Im just goin to use the best of the stock manifolds till i get some extra cash, this build will be enough as it is , ill have to save a lil bit more to get the new manifolds


Thanks
-Phil

i would do 650s but im not sure about them on a 20g

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Is there a 50 trim turbo that will fit on a T-25 flange? or would i have to move up to a T-4 flange? I have a buddy thats running a SC61 on his GST and hes loving it, what do you guys think of that turbo?



Thanks
-Phil

 

[Joe Cool]

I do believe that you can get a hotside that will work fine with the Mitsubishi flange. But stepping it up might not necessarily be a bad idea.

 

[TSimage]

is a BC stage 2 valve train??

And don't go with the cyclone manifold, just a regular 1g manifold is perfect.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

B.C = Brian Crower, my bad

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Heres my Current set up, 1g rods/2g pistons, Evo III Turbo mani, Cyclone intake mani, With a t-25, but i upgraded it to a EvoIII 16g sence then,

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[canada4g63]

FPR and i would run bigger injectors, i have a 50trim on my gsx with a evo3 manifold ported works fine. maybe a maft but if your running a 20g that your 2g sensor should be fine.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Alright, So ive heard use 550cc, 950cc. What do you think? i do want to go with a bigger turbo down the road!

 

[Joe Cool]

Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance

Go down to Fuel Injector Size Calculator, put in how many horses you want to have, change injector number to 4, change B.S.F.C. to 0.625, leave Max Duty Cycle in % at about 80, press calculate.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

I just got some 850cc injecters today for 100 bucks, buddy didnt want then and they were just sitting in there box. Im goin to use these till i go with a bigger turbo

 

[907dsm]

So your going to running those 850's with your AFC???

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Look, IM new to this whole DSM shit, Im just tryin to learn a lil bit here, and i dont have a AFC yet so no im not useing it YET

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Alright, my wide band as been ordered ( For current set-up ), What kind of boost controller should i look at? and would it really be a waste of time and money to get a AFC? and just go to DSMlink?

 

[My1GLaser]

Get a Joe P MBC. I run 28-30 psi with it and have no problems.

Yes, IMO an SAFC is a waste if you know you will upgrade turbos or your setup down the road. DSMLink is the best upgrade I have ever made.

If you use an SAFC, then you can really only run 650cc inj b/c of how it works. You are only really lying to the ECU about airflow in order to run larger than stock inj. Your inj are bigger and will spray more fuel than stock, right? So an AFC tells the ECU that you are flowing less air so it will spray less fuel. Since you are actually running larger inj, the AFR ends up working out properly. The side effect is that the ECU thinks you are actually flowing less air (remember you aren't) and it puts you on a lower load timing table which will be a big problem with the already aggressive 1g timing. 450/650 = .69 which means that you are reducing the airflow the ECU sees by 31% and that is about the limit you can do with out problems.

Just get Link and be done with it. Then you can run whatever inj you want. If you do then I would seriously consider getting 9:1 CR pistons. You will have timing control and can get away with it. I am running an 18g at 28 psi with 9:1 CR, 11.5:1 AFR and 19-20* timing with no knock.

If you get a chip burned for your inj, etc then that is an option too since you don't have to lie to the ECU. http://www.dsmchips.com/

This is more of a suggestion for motor building. When the motor is put together, pay attention to what is called "quench pad." (also called squish) Get it as close to .040" as possible. A search will explain it better than I can after the amount of alcohol I have consumed. Put it this way, you don't want your pistons to be .010" down into the cyl @ TDC and then put a .054" thick HG on there.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Alright man, That was alot of help, ill lookin into DSMlink, and i was thinking about .040 over but i didnt want to go to far.


Thanks
-Phil

 

[My1GLaser]

and i was thinking about .040 over but i didnt want to go to far.
Thanks
-Phil

Definitely not .040 over as in cylinder boring. Only bore the motor as much as necessary to get the cyl walls into spec.

.040 as in the distance from the top of the piston at TDC to the bottom of the head. When the piston comes to TDC, if the "quench area" is tight enough then it causes a violent swirl action in the CC. This helps to reduce hot spots and the likelihood of knock. We have dished pistons so there isn't much quench area to speak of, and making the most of what little surface we have is important. I knew nothing of this before I built my motor last year, and was instructed about its importance from engine builders.

 

[Spoolin_TSI]

Definitely not .040 over as in cylinder boring. Only bore the motor as much as necessary to get the cyl walls into spec.

.040 as in the distance from the top of the piston at TDC to the bottom of the head. When the piston comes to TDC, if the "quench area" is tight enough then it causes a violent swirl action in the CC. This helps to reduce hot spots and the likelihood of knock. We have dished pistons so there isn't much quench area to speak of, and making the most of what little surface we have is important. I knew nothing of this before I built my motor last year, and was instructed about its importance from engine builders.

Ah Alright, i must have mis read the 1st post, i get it now, So how much should i bore it? is .010 - .020 alright? im used to V8s so im used to having more Cyl wall to bore out then these 4cyls ,


Thanks man

 

[My1GLaser]

Ah Alright, i must have mis read the 1st post, i get it now, So how much should i bore it? is .010 - .020 alright? im used to V8s so im used to having more Cyl wall to bore out then these 4cyls ,


Thanks man

.020 is normal unless there is significant cyl damage. I don't know if they have .010 pistons for our motors, but that would be ideal if it was all you needed.