My Archer Brothers Racing SCCA World Challenge Championship Winning Eagle Talons

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I didn't know you had two! That is awesome Phil! I'm glad to see you preserving that part of DSM road race history!

 

[Phil1320]

I have three questions.

1. Why was the number changed from 31?

2. Did they come with the Comptech engine?

3. Where is their 2G Talon?

1a. This car is the original #34 car. Mitch Wright started the first race of 1991 in the #31 Talon at Sears Point Raceway in CA. Something happend at that race that caused Mitch to switch and finish the race in #34. He then kept that car throughout the '91 season. Mitch drove #31 in the 1990 season in full the year before. If you have a 1992 Eagle Talon dealer brochure, the car in the picture is the the #31 with Mitch's name on the rear quarter window. A bit confusing...

2a. The engines were said to have been ''balanced and blueprinted'' and assembled by Comptech. I haven't been able to confirm that the engine in the car is that exact engine. Apparently there is a stamp of some sort on it. Relative to the engine, I have an article that states the engine had a header installed back then for racing. This engine has a stock exhaust manifold and downpipe. It is 100% stock appearing. A compression bump of one point to 10.0:1 and some type of cams were also mentioned and power was rumored to be at 160, up from the factory stock 135. The gentleman I got the car from stated he confirmed the authenticity of the car with the Archers, and confirmed that engine is indeed the Comptech prepared piece.

3a. There were three 2g Talons. #32, #33, & #34. One of them was sold to Spirit of Daytona Racing in FL. It was stripped of it's Talon bumper covers and rear spoiler, replaced with Eclipse parts, painted white, and competed in the 1998 & 1999 Daytona 24 hour races.

Pretty sure another went to Bruno Buso Racing in Canada. No confirmation on that.

Apparently one at a minimum is still around in it's original state, and might be for sale at some point in the future.

That's all I've got...

I didn't know you had two! That is awesome Phil! I'm glad to see you preserving that part of DSM road race history!

Yes, sir. As stated elsewhere, #32 would have been mine about 7 years ago had I not lost my job. But, #34 came my way first, March of 2012. First on track was March, 2013. It's a blast to drive. Much less power than I'm used to, however, it will make me a better driver for sure as you need to be very smooth and understand the powerband to get the most out of it.

#32 came back around to me. A post I made on the Archer Resurrection Thread generated a PM to me by it's owner at the time. I acquired it April or early May of this year.

Thanks Nate! I'm doing my best. No perfection here, but, the best I can do. Both cars had some things done to them that took away from, 'original,' but I'm able to correct or bring back some of it. Works in progress......

Best thing is, I'm havin fun with them

 

[arrowhead]

Congratulations on your 2 pieces of history.

I hope you can get more info on the N/A 34 car with some engine specs, especially cams that are in there and comp ratio.

 

[Phil1320]

Congratulations on your 2 pieces of history.

I hope you can get more info on the N/A 34 car with some engine specs, especially cams that are in there and comp ratio.

Thanks!

I'm currently in touch with some people that may be able to give me some info on the engine.

As I said above, compression ratio should be 10.0:1

The engines weren't too modded. It still has balance shafts intact and has a factory crank pulley.

I might have stumbled onto a lead that might give me the manufacturer of the cams.

Here's a couple shots. Coming down off the transport and loaded on the trailer for a short trip to it's new home. I met the transport at a large local parking lot rather than having him drive some of the tight roads to my house.

 

[1qkfwd]

Ya I'm curious as to what they used for internals. What kind of tuning did they use??

 

[Phil1320]

Ya I'm curious as to what they used for internals. What kind of tuning did they use??

The classes they raced in were 'Super Production.' Now I don't have a rules book from back then, but basically, a slight cut above 'Showroom Stock.' So, with that, these cars aren't too modded relative to the engine. Internals should be all stock, especially on the #32 turbo car. The #34, NA motor, to my knowledge, was torn down, everything was balanced, clearances were set, and it was re-assembled, by Comptech. The engine in #32 should be 100% stock.

Keep in mind I've gathered info from a limited number of publications and that is really all I have to go by.

I'm in touch with people that know people etc. trying to gather more info. But, that always doesn't come through, and, it's such a long time ago that much has slipped through the cracks. Doing my best though. As I said above, #34, was said to have a header on it to help it make 160 hp. Unfortunately, that header is no longer in place. Who knows, could've been damaged over the years. Either way, the car has stock mani and downpipe. There is a 'Borla' sticker on the driver side rear bumper. Archer's did sell a 4 into 1 header back in the day that I'm fairly certain they developed for Borla or in conjunction with. Well, about a decade ago I was wanting to build an NA 4g63 drag racer, but that fell through. I had purchased that Borla header back then from NOPI. It's still brand new in a box in the basement. See where I'm going with this?

Now, as far as tuning:

#34 NA - NO tuning at all. Stock non-eprom ECU. Now, this doesn't mean there wasn't something else at some point, but most likely not. I will pull the valve cover to see what I can see with the cams. I will also try to inspect the engine block and head for any signs of anything from Comptech. This car has a flowmaster muffler mated to the stock downpipe where the cat would sit with a turndown exit aft of the floorpans.

#32 Turbo - stock non-eprom ECU - leaking caps- why car wouldn't start when I got it. Donor ECU in car for now, modded MAF: lower honeycomb chamber removed, modified factory metal framed air filter housing, HKS PFC-FCON for fuel adjusting.

Stock boost control solenoid is in place, haven't checked if restrictor is still there.

Stock manifold and downpipe. Where the cat would be bolted to the downpipe, there is a turndown exit. I'd be surprised if the car made more than stock crank hp at the wheels.

 

[1qkfwd]

I only ask because you mentioned the compression being bumped up to 10:1. That's 1 full point over stock. Have you done a compression test to see what the numbers come up.

 

[arrowhead]

The 34 car has ITA on the doors which it may be in reference to SCCA, IMPROVED TOURING class, very litlle was allowed to be done to the car, todays rules in this class are a little more liberal than they were back then, in fact even had to have a passenger seat in the car.

The cars were not classifed by engine size, it was base on their potential based on SCCA criteria.

 

[Phil1320]

I only ask because you mentioned the compression being bumped up to 10:1. That's 1 full point over stock. Have you done a compression test to see what the numbers come up.

Yes, and I'm not sure how that was accomplished, via pistons, etc.

Not sure how much it can be bumped by shaving the head. I've found nothing in writing about it.

I have not done a comp. test. At some point I will.

The 34 car has ITA on the doors which it may be in reference to SCCA, IMPROVED TOURING class, very litlle was allowed to be done to the car, todays rules in this class are a little more liberal than they were back then, in fact even had to have a passenger seat in the car.

The cars were not classifed by engine size, it was base on their potential based on SCCA criteria.

Yes, the guy I bought the car from was going to compete in ITA with the car. He went to pull it on the trailer for his first race weekend IIRC and fuel was leaking onto the ground. At that point he decided to sell the car as he didn't want to put any more into it.

So, he never raced the car.

 

[1qkfwd]

I have read but haven't had any solid answers on it, but the edm N/A 4g63 engines had 10:1 compression engines and more aggressive tunes on there ecus. Now being that when the cars where raced it was in an era that those parts where a little easier to obtain here in the states.

Wonder if you can get an eye or scope down a spark plug hole to see if they are forged or a factory style piston.

 

[Phil1320]

I have read but haven't had any solid answers on it, but the edm N/A 4g63 engines had 10:1 compression engines and more aggressive tunes on there ecus. Now being that when the cars where raced it was in an era that those parts where a little easier to obtain here in the states.

Wonder if you can get an eye or scope down a spark plug hole to see if they are forged or a factory style piston.

Interesting. Possibly.

Here's a bit of info I haven't shared yet:

#34 is a Canadian car. Instrument cluster is km/h

Wonder if Canadian cars were Euro spec...

 

[1qkfwd]

Most edm cars I thought came from Europe. The ecus in those won't be usdm. Maybe pull the numbers off them unless they have been swapped. I think they came EPROM to.

Vin tags still any where on the car?

 

[Phil1320]

Most edm cars I thought came from Europe. The ecus in those won't be usdm. Maybe pull the numbers off them unless they have been swapped. I think they came EPROM to.

Vin tags still any where on the car?

Ok. Definitely no eproms in either car. No VIN tags on #34. Just on the dash which is irrelevant most likely.

#32 has VIN tags on all the panels. Dash VIN doesn't match. Alot of stuff got switched around.

 

[taz4432]

Interesting. Possibly.

Here's a bit of info I haven't shared yet:

#34 is a Canadian car. Instrument cluster is km/h

Wonder if Canadian cars were Euro spec...

I do not know of any Canadian cars that were/are euro spec. I do not a lot of Canadians that wish their cars were, though.

We had our own spec (no power seatbelts, metric gauges, DRLs, etc.) and that was about it as far as I know.

 

[arrowhead]

Checked rules for ITA and the car would still be legal by SCCA rules.

Are you planning on racing it?.

 

[Phil1320]

I do not know of any Canadian cars that were/are euro spec. I do not a lot of Canadians that wish their cars were, though.

We had our own spec (no power seatbelts, metric gauges, DRLs, etc.) and that was about it as far as I know.

Ok, thanks, good to know!

Checked rules for ITA and the car would still be legal by SCCA rules.

Are you planning on racing it?.

Yes it meets ITA rules, as I said above, the guy I got it from planned to run in that series.

I myself will 99% not RACE either Archer car. #34 was raced by the first two owners after the Archers' let it go. The first owner being Chuck Cassaro, who currently races in the reborn Trans-Am Series. I have his logbook and it shows three wins and a couple of second place finishes in 5 races iirc.

I only plan to run track days with the cars, preserve them as best I can, have fun, maybe bring them to some Mopar shows, etc.

 

[SBstar]

Finally have a chance to sit down on a computer and comment. Phil's been updating me on the progress of both these cars as well as given me a lot of history about them.

First I'll say that Phil has poured his heart and soul into these two pieces of DSM history, he's done a lot to preserve and more-so return that history by making them as close to original as possible. From utilizing multiple photographs to ensure the decals were exactly the same, swapping multiple parts, etc. He's moved them back to their "original glory".

I've known about the archer cars for quite a while, as I remember reading a little bit about them back in the Greg Collier days. But, I do not know their history and the impact they had like Phil has been able to reveal. As much as we think of our dsm's as drag race machines these cars were doing laps around real racetracks long before they were doing real 1/4 passes. To me it's extremely interesting and I'd like to hear/read more about what was done back in the day.

Anyways, keep up the good work Phil and I'm glad you're having a lot of fun with these two projects!

 

[Phil1320]

Finally have a chance to sit down on a computer and comment. Phil's been updating me on the progress of both these cars as well as given me a lot of history about them.

First I'll say that Phil has poured his heart and soul into these two pieces of DSM history, he's done a lot to preserve and more-so return that history by making them as close to original as possible. From utilizing multiple photographs to ensure the decals were exactly the same, swapping multiple parts, etc. He's moved them back to their "original glory".

I've known about the archer cars for quite a while, as I remember reading a little bit about them back in the Greg Collier days. But, I do not know their history and the impact they had like Phil has been able to reveal. As much as we think of our dsm's as drag race machines these cars were doing laps around real racetracks long before they were doing real 1/4 passes. To me it's extremely interesting and I'd like to hear/read more about what was done back in the day.

Anyways, keep up the good work Phil and I'm glad you're having a lot of fun with these two projects!

Thanks man, means alot. My passion runs deep when it comes to the roadrace history of the DSM.

1996, the year I got into DSMs, was the last year the Archer Brother's Team ran Talons. It was their 8th season running Talons, and the first season they DIDN'T win the driver's championship, finishing second and fourth in points.

So, unfortunately, I missed the whole phenomenon.

The first season they ran, 1989, in AWD TSi's, they ran here at Lime Rock, CT, where I run my track days, and they won. That's the year I graduated high school and was headed into the military soon after. I hadn't started going to races yet. I was busy riding my Haro Master.

The next year they raced at Lime Rock was 1993. The 1gb Talon TSi FWD Turbo's. I'm sure I was there but wasn't into the cars yet. What this also means is that neither of my Archer Talons competed at Lime Rock. Bummer. Would love to have a lap time to shoot for.

The only other season they competed at LRP was 1995. The second season they ran the black and yellow 2Gs. I have pictures of one of their competitors cars, the Mountain Autosports BMW M3. No pics of the Talons! Before DSM's, I was all about German cars.

In a nutshell, I missed 99% of it all, which is why for the last 8 years I've been gathering info and just trying to relive it through text, pictures, and race results. And, er now, by driving two of the original cars.

I'm in touch with several people who have provided great info. Team owners, drivers, photo journalists and more. Really cool people.

At some point I will give some overviews of it all.

I've had some pretty cool cars over the years, but, none of them make me smile the way I do when I see my Talons.

 

[warp9]

I've seen these cars and Phil's passion! The cars are amazing and I'm glad theyre in the right hands. Phil is like a DSM curator!!

 

[Phil1320]

I've seen these cars and Phil's passion! The cars are amazing and I'm glad theyre in the right hands. Phil is like a DSM curator!!

Thanks !

Lol....

 

[Phil1320]

Well, I did get #32 to Lime Rock Park on July 30 as planned. It is a pretty quick car. Boost is at 15 psi due to no cat or muffler section. Stock boost control solenoid is still in place. I can definitely feel the excess heft compared to #34. Also, I'm not so much for the power brakes and power steering in #32 either. #34 spoiled me.

All things considered, I feel a bit more at home in #32 as I've only had turbo dsm's until last year. The welded diff ensures all the power goes down, the car exits corners well. Handling is close to neutral, neutral-understeer. New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires are pretty impressive.

The car had a few issues:

1. Brake pedal feel/front brake pad wear
2. Coolant guage went to always reading full cold
3. Some light coolant spray under hood

I'm working through those issues now.

Confirmed from two previous owners that neither of them did a timing belt and water pump. Before that, #32 was in a museum. Found this out two days before the event. So, needless to say, I didn't have the time before the track to get that done. So, following, I pulled that all apart for replacement. It's all original! 23+ years old. Crazy. Belts actually look good. Water pump appears to have been seeping from the weep hole. Tensioner is rusty.

So, I put 102 miles on it. Drained the oil and it was dark. Mind you, I just changed it two days before the track. Probably just from fuel contamination. Apparently the car was blowing some flames out on decel/partial throttle.

Anyway, overall, I was impressed, alot better than I expected, and I was surprised at how quick the car was.


So, now to iron out the issues and head back to the track at the end of the month.

 

[taz4432]

Awesome news. Would love to see some video of the beast in action! Pictures of the work in progress as well.

 

[Phil1320]

Awesome news. Would love to see some video of the beast in action! Pictures of the work in progress as well.

Thanks! A friend took some short vids on his iphone I have yet to receive. I have gopro in car but have no experience with editing and uploading to a site. But, I will get that going. It appears I can't upload pics right from my phone. Guessing it's image size.

I do have some pics I'll upload soon though.

Thanks for the interest.

 

[1qkfwd]

Ya vids would be way cool!!!!

 

[Phil1320]

Ya vids would be way cool!!!!

Ok, cool. I've got a busy last month of summer going, but, I'll get some stuff up asap.

Thanks for the interest.