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My Archer Brothers Racing SCCA World Challenge Championship Winning Eagle Talons

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
I'm still surprised they used a welded diff, but I suppose they didn't put together 4 spiders back then?

Not sure when the four spider stuff hit, I'm willing to bet it was several years beyond when this car was built. It was on track in April 1990 for it's first race. The car does pull well on corner exit however this locked diff isn't the best on tire wear. A Kaaz diff or Quaife would probably help quite a bit however that's not something I'm considering for this car. After the brakes, I'm pretty much done with replacing hard parts. From here on out I'm hoping just to be replacing wearable items: tires, pads, filters & fluids.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Still getting #32 ready for 2014. Only problem is, first track day is March 29. Coming fast and still have plenty to do. There's still snow covering the track actually. Braking system is done, but, needs another bleed. Need to replace driver side lower ball joint boot. Going to install brake cooling ducts that were removed. And, still have to get slicks mounted. Gonna be a push.
 

Billjoebob

Probationary Member
1
0
Mar 17, 2014
Search, Arkansas
Glad to see that you're enjoying the car. Myself and a few of the local car guys remember this car being here before it was sold around this time last year. Looks awesome!

Take alot of photos at your track day and post your experience with it! I will share them with Michael. I'm sure he would love to see pics of you enjoying it. He told me the whole story in how he came to sell it and what not. He doesn't plan to sell anything, but he tells me that at the right price, everything is for sale. He just sold his RX7 race car two months ago. Now we are focusing on building his miata race car and a RX8 car as well. A lot of the local car guys kept asking about the status of the DSM and I sought to seak it out. I will say that I am very happy that someone is enjoying it and restoring it. The plan was to fix most of its issues, but then you came and got it. I read your entire thread, and it's awesome. I wish you could've seen some of the cars in the transport truck. There were some completely restored vintage cars in there that Michael has a lot of pictures of.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Glad to see that you're enjoying the car. Myself and a few of the local car guys remember this car being here before it was sold around this time last year. Looks awesome!

Take alot of photos at your track day and post your experience with it! I will share them with Michael. I'm sure he would love to see pics of you enjoying it. He told me the whole story in how he came to sell it and what not. He doesn't plan to sell anything, but he tells me that at the right price, everything is for sale. He just sold his RX7 race car two months ago. Now we are focusing on building his miata race car and a RX8 car as well. A lot of the local car guys kept asking about the status of the DSM and I sought to seak it out. I will say that I am very happy that someone is enjoying it and restoring it. The plan was to fix most of its issues, but then you came and got it. I read your entire thread, and it's awesome. I wish you could've seen some of the cars in the transport truck. There were some completely restored vintage cars in there that Michael has a lot of pictures of.

Thanks! Yes, I'm having fun with the car for sure. However, it took quite a bit of work to get the car to this point. I'm happy I'll be able to drive the car more toward it's full potential this year. I've been wanting this car since 2005 when it was advertised in Grassroots Motorsports magazine for sale. As stated earlier in the thread, I had a deal with the current owner back then but I had to back out. So, to finally have it, and to have it paired with the '91 Champ Talon makes it even better. The car scoots pretty good and is a blast to drive. It will be a change to actually have some confidence behind the wheel as I was never comfortable last year.

I'll have plenty of photos to share I'm sure.

It appears I forgot to mention it here, but, not only was the front right caliper shot with blown pistons, the right rear caliper was seized. That explains the flat spotted right rear tire. So, in summary, #32 barely had any proper braking on the right side.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Well, I've taken #32 to two track days thus far this year. Unfortunately, they were not without issue. However, the car is a tad quicker than last year right out of the gate.

The first track day was in the 40's with a damp track, wet in some areas.

Somehow, both nuts on the front left coilover to knuckle bolts were stripped and on my first or second lap the tire came in contact with the coilover. The top bolt being an eccentric, let the camber change. That day was called short. It served its purpose as to let any bugs present themselves. They did.

The last time those were touched was at the alignment shop last year. Possible excess torque with air over the years caused the threads to sheer off the nuts. Bolts were perfect. Went and got some new lock nuts, problem solved. However, now the camber setting was not perfect. Thankfully, the brand new BF R1 was salvageable and not damaged bad enough to warrant not using it. Following this work, I was on vacation and did not return until the Friday before the next track day. So, no time for an alignment.

Again, the changes for this year were the TCE front brakes, and the BFGoodrich R1's. Went from a 205 - 225 and mounted those on the .5" wider 16 x 7.5" Kosei K1's.

The brakes are a huge difference as expected. The tires just as noticeable as #32 stays pointed a lot better now. Nonetheless the power steering fluid is still getting pretty hot.

The result:

Last year's best time: 1:04.5

So far this year: 1:02.8

I was also able to take a first place trophy in my class in the time trial competition with that lap.

Pretty stoked about that.

So for the future here:

-alignment
-possible corner balance
-tire temperature monitoring

....and of course, work on bettering my driving.


Pics to follow....
 

arrowhead

10+ Year Contributor
923
60
Apr 19, 2011
miami, Florida
Good job.

Almost 2 sec at any track is very good, I am sure once you get things sorted out, and you loosen up, your times will go down even more.

I know you want to keep things as original as possible, if I were you I would get rid of the PS system.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Are you running a p/s cooler?

I am not as I wanted to leave the car as close to how it was when it was raced back in 1990. I honestly can't find where the fluid is coming from exactly. I thought it was getting hot and pushing by the rubber gasket on the cap. I flipped that as there was a decent groove which felt like a more snug fit. There's no visible leak when the car is running here at the house. It's only after it heats up at the track. Then some drips will hit the ground forward of the left tire once the car sits for a while. There is fluid on the top of the reservoir which tells me that it is in fact coming from the cap.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Good job.

Almost 2 sec at any track is very good, I am sure once you get things sorted out, and you loosen up, your times will go down even more.

I know you want to keep things as original as possible, if I were you I would get rid of the PS system.

Thanks! I would hope there's another 1.5-2 secs. left. And for sure, I've definitely got some room left! Might take a while though. If I can get the car to be issue free, that will help.

And, I have thought of removing the power steering to alleviate this issue. The #34 has it removed and I prefer that feel. I would certainly do that before trying to install a cooler.
 

arrowhead

10+ Year Contributor
923
60
Apr 19, 2011
miami, Florida
Well I have never raced with a PS system in any of my cars, not only is one more thing that can go wrong, but I look at it from a safety point of view.

If any of that oil starts leaking out and because of placement of pump, it will go on one of the tires for sure,which can be dangerous.

But the major reason from safety is, if there is a pin hole in the system it will come out as a fine mist, which it will ignite without much heat being required.

I know that it may be a lot easier to turn the wheel at slow speeds, but as you know once you really get going there is not much difference.

For sure you will improve more than 2 or 3 sec. a lap once everything is in place.

Good luck
 

4g63t

Proven Member
1,569
10
Aug 14, 2005
North Iowa, Iowa
I know this, but, I'm sure the bulk of the people here aren't aware. I have alot of Archer Racing stuff from before the Eagle's including Renault, Chevy, and Jeep.

And here's a couple more pics relative to #32:

1. The front diff as modified by the Archer Brothers camp

2. The new stoppers - 12.2" rotors with a .980 thickness and the beautiful Wilwood calipers. This alone should make the car much more manageable and essentially much quicker around the course. I never drove with confidence last year in #32. This should remove that feeling and so between the car, and improvements in my driving, it should be a fun year with this car.

Nice upgrade! that will make a world of difference on the track.
Are your rotors on backwards? Shouldn’t the vents be going the opposite way?
I suppose it depends on what way the inside vanes are going.
 

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tstkl

15+ Year Contributor
3,874
62
Feb 10, 2005
SoCal, California
Hmmm. I just can't seem to generate much interest in here. Bummer.

However, right out of the gate, I figured interest would be sparse, my reasoning for giving somewhat of a survey before I even posted any pics.

A few guys didn't say much other than 'post pics damnit.' So, I do that, never to have them return, or if they did, they said nothing. This includes you Ludachris, what gives? I figured you'd be interested. Obviously, you've been floating around here.

Oh well.

Honestly, I'm a fan of people not contributing unless they have something to add to the conversation. I work 10-12 hours a day staring at a computer screen and when I get home I'm usually not keen on jumping on the computer again. Reading stuff like this is pretty cool, but often times gets cluttered with tons of posts of people saying "cool" and nothing else. This would be a much easier read if it was more of a narrative from you and the few others who have had positive contributions on the subject.

In keeping with that theme, I'll try and add some photos to this post later this week off my other computer. In the mean time keep us updated on the historical documents you've got in your garage.

Edit:

Photos below. Also I wanted to add a few things:

If your rules dictate that you can only connect to the chassis in 6 predetermined points on the frame (like the scca did in this case) there is absolutely no point whatsoever in making a cage stronger than the rules require. It is just dead weight. A cage that is only attached to the bottom of a unibody car does literally nothing to increase the torsional stiffness of the vehicle. Any weight added here is dead weight that raises the CG and slows the car down. The reason "professionals" go so crazy with their cages is for a couple of reasons:

1. Drag racing rules require progressively stiffer cages as you go faster (road racing rules do not).
2. People approach expensive processes such as having a cage installed with a "do it once" mentality more than any other "mod"
3. The most time consuming (and thus expensive) part of installing a cage is removing the interior, prepping the interior for paint after the cage is installed, and reinstalling the interior. The steel and welding time is insignificant in comparison, particularly if the person welding is using a mig. If a company is going to get thousands of dollars out of you though, you're going to want to see a bunch of awesome tubes all over the place which make your car hella stiff yo!

Basically what I'm saying is look at the fourth picture below of the cage greg collier used in his car in 2007, then look at the cage used in any road racing series where you are not allowed to connect the cage to the roof and count how many extra tubes they have on their cage (in comparison to what the rules for their series requires). The answer will be none.



Second, someone asked about how to make a FWD dsm handle well. Since my guess is anything on these cars is no longer available and there is no point in asking phil, I'll contribute what little knowledge I know.

1. ALL DSM OWNERS, and for that matter any McPherson front suspension vehicle, should replace the lower front control arm's rear bushing with the stiffest material they can get their hands on. If you can replace this bushing with steel, do it. Seriously. Look at reviews of whiteline's KCA400M. Then go buy KCA321. It fits all DSMs.
2. The best handling DSM I ever drove unfortunately had cut front springs. They were however, OEM evo 8 front springs on OEM evo 8 front shocks. It was a true shoe string budget car that road on KYB AGX FWD spec rear shocks and TIEN AWD rear springs. The man who put this car together obviously knew what he was doing, since the best way to get a fwd car to rotate is to drastically increase the rear roll stiffness relative to the front. I'm not aware of what swaybars may be available for a fwd DSM, but if I had to guess, I'd say zero. This is a band aid to not having a stiff swaybar available.
3. The car also had evo 8 wheels all around. Interestingly enough though, he had 235/45/17 PS2's on the front and 225/45/17 PS2's on the rear. Honestly I'd suggest possibly trying 225/40/17 on the rear. This is all in the name of getting the car to rotate.


Any alignment adjustment you can make will obviously give you more options too. Camber bolts are available from a ton of brands (most are made by SPC at the end of the day). I've never owned a fwd dsm for an extended period of time so this is as much help as I can offer.

Now for the pictures:

Flying strawberry banana shake anyone? Who know's where this body kit is from.
 

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Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Nice upgrade! that will make a world of difference on the track.
Are your rotors on backwards? Shouldn’t the vents be going the opposite way?
I suppose it depends on what way the inside vanes are going.
Thanks! It slows much better now. I inspected the vane flow before install to make sure they were correct. However now you're gonna make me go double check! Unfortunately, the Wilwoods won't let the American Racing wheels go back on, so I'll be pulling the Wilwood set up off and going back to a 2g set up. I only have one more track day scheduled this year so far. Possibility for a couple more, but, I'm not sure yet. Alignment and corner balance later this week.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Well I have never raced with a PS system in any of my cars, not only is one more thing that can go wrong, but I look at it from a safety point of view.

If any of that oil starts leaking out and because of placement of pump, it will go on one of the tires for sure,which can be dangerous.

But the major reason from safety is, if there is a pin hole in the system it will come out as a fine mist, which it will ignite without much heat being required.

I know that it may be a lot easier to turn the wheel at slow speeds, but as you know once you really get going there is not much difference.

For sure you will improve more than 2 or 3 sec. a lap once everything is in place.

Good luck
The #34 NA car has no power steering and is definitely a better feel for me. As a last resort I would remove it from the #32 car. I really don't want to alter it however. It doesn't drip on the ground when driving. It gets caught on the surrounding sheet metal. But, when the car is stopped, after about 15 minutes it will start to drip. I just replaced the filler cap/dipstick and it fits much more snug than the original. I'm still thinking it was pushing by the cap seal because there are zero signs of leakage anywhere. I definitely understand the safety end of this. It could get ugly.
I'd like to see an improvement in lap time. Proper alignment and corner balance should help.
Lastly, I will probably reduce usage on the Archer cars soon anyway as I'm building my AWD for the road course. While I thoroughly enjoy running these cars, I'm limited with most aspects in order to preserve their originality. I'll still hit a track day here or there. Both cars are very quick and #32 is strong against some big boy cars, however I'm wanting to get out there in my own creation.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
While it's true not many people have too much to contribute, unfortunately, tstkl, your post is in the wrong thread as well. Posting a tutorial here along with pics of and or references to Greg Collier or his Laser don't have much to do with the Archer cars at all....along with the rest of your content. There's other threads that address all of that. But hey, do whatcha like, everyone else does. I think I'm pretty much done here for the most part.
 

GRAVEDIGGER

10+ Year Contributor
3,621
108
Nov 26, 2007
Uniontown, Ohio
I think I'm pretty much done here for the most part.

Don't let it get you down Phil. Just because nobody is saying anything doesn't mean they're not reading and enjoying what you have to share. I can't be the only one who reads through and follows this thread, but doesn't say too much. I enjoy it very much, so thanks! :D
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Don't let it get you down Phil. Just because nobody is saying anything doesn't mean they're not reading and enjoying what you have to share. I can't be the only one who reads through and follows this thread, but doesn't say too much. I enjoy it very much, so thanks! :D
Well, thanks for checking in. Glad you enjoy it. It doesn't get me down so much as it makes me question if I'm wasting my time. I've got a super demanding lifestyle right now and free time is very limited. I see now we have "like" buttons. So, essentially, no one has to post anything, they can use that. Then I can see that people are viewing at a minimum.
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Hey keep it up Phil! I try to show love for the Archer Racing cars on my blog and people love them. Keep those photo updates coming!


http://instagram.com/p/pcXE9UJ5ZA/?modal=true
I'll see what I can do. That's pretty cool man. Unfortunately, the car in that ad is gone. That is the 1989 Championship car, the first year Bobby and Tommy ran Talons. I was bummed to find it isn't around as I would have obviously tried to add it to my collection. I've thought in the past to build a replica, once I found that it was destroyed, that thought is even more so in my thoughts. We'll see. Thanks
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
Super awesome. I cant believe how far they can get on those 1g mafs, I have a buddy who maxed one out at 200hp or so. Is all of the intake piping on the turbo stock? Or are there any subtle mods to it? I know 1g piping is tiny.
Hi, this car has the most material removed from a 1g MAF that I've seen. It uses an HKS PFC F CON to keep idle and most likely for some small fuel tweaking. All other piping is as original. The car runs only 15 psi. Thanks for posting,
Phil
 

Phil1320

Proven Member
2,256
38
Dec 9, 2002
Rocky Hill, Connecticut
I only ask because you mentioned the compression being bumped up to 10:1. That's 1 full point over stock. Have you done a compression test to see what the numbers come up.
Justin, I did find out that they were experimenting with several can options back then and that Comptech did relative tuning via EPROM ECU's back then. Three extra ECUs came with the NA car, one EPROM, however it is not socketed, and if they were soldering every time they made adjustments, they did a damn good job...
 
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