My 3000GT Vr4 Holset Hx52 build

[BoyRacerBlu]

Any pictures of the collector at the flange where it meets the turbo?

Is this on the stock cam?

Auto/Manual?

Weight?

What gear are you seeing 14psi @ 4500? That seems a bit late for a 3.0 on E85.

- stock longblock- changing that over winter

- its the 6 spd which has taller gears than the 5 spd in the 1st gen 3/s cars, but in the 6 speed, 1st and 2nd are relatively tight, 3rd is tall, roughly in the range of 4th in the dsm transmission -pull was in 3rd at about 35, which is too low for it, but my 2nd synchro is shot and slated for a rebuild in nov, so its the best i can do

weight: unsure, I've only done some basic weight reduction thus far and thats on my list of things to do, but I've roughly dropped 180-200 lbs out of the car without spending any money or sacrificing anything to detract from enjoying it as a cruiser, such as interior components or sound deadening. Estimates are, with me not in and a full tank of gas, roughly 3550-3600 from the 3750 stock dry weight based on the collective weight of parts, brackets, and systems i have removed, i still have race seats, carbon fiber drive shaft, rear steering rack delete, and possibly a custom thicker wall aluminum single shot custom exhaust to fab. yup. aluminum. maybe some lighter body panels if I have a extra coin, but at least a hood for sure

I thought the spool was ok...... its litearally only got injector scaling on a 99 3000gt Vr4 ROM
no timing

no fuel

no nothing.

- so im hoping to improve the gains a bit with some actual tunning, but keep in mind on an HX52, full boost @ 4500 isnt abnormal on a 3.0. BigLady hits @ *EDIT* 6500 on a 2.0 with a built head, i think adding another liter and dropping 2000 rpms of spool on a car with a factory turbo basemap rescaled to handle 1250cc injectors is plausable

- take the video above as a sort of "it runs" more than "thats the end result" it needs to go back to start tunning, but the tuner has been busy and I've been busy myself, and the tranny needs repairs before I want to put real power through it....it's just taking some time waiting for the stars to align when ill have both money AND time to play on my own terms when it comes to my sched

 

[biglady112]

We have never done a 2.4. I helped a friend with a 6262 T3 car, but neverade it past 18psi. It is around 6500-6700rpm for peak torque(actual full boost) on a 2.0L.

Good job on getting the car running. I advise putting some 1/4" chicken wire behind that mesh for support. We almost destroyed a T67 a few years ago when we noticed on the dyno the mesh was being sucked in under boost. When we saw it it was pretty much contacting the nut/end of the shaft on the compressor.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Ahh, i msread the thread, apologies, you guys have been a big help back when i was initially researching this and putting it all together, your one of the few places that actually has data on this turbo outside of norotors and their 1 guy in an rx7 the tried one, and some guy with a custom setup in an e30 bmw - thankyou for posting your data and helping me (unknowingly)

The screen fitting is actually destined to go, im attempting to locate an hks or other low profile style filter as its too tight to make a 4.5" pipe piece for the inlet where its located on my car, so if you know anyone who has one up for grabs....

Also if you guys have a spare 16cm hotside up for sale from a blown hx52, id love to buy it. Im going to design a quickspool valve inside the exhaust housing and i need a guinea pig housing to do it on/ test machine tolerances and attempt to bring boost response to hit full boost BY 3800 with the valve and some actual tunning with timing in the mix

I dont thing i have a very good pic of the pipe collector, but i can see what i can dig up, but the manifold is twin scroll with 1 7/8" runner pipes for the cross pipe going to each scroll in the flange, the runners also have a pipe off the peak of each arc that merge to a single collector for the 60mm external wastegate. The exhaust might be the choking factor though as the "intestine pipe" as i like to call it, the goes off the back of the turbo and underneath the car is a bit bendy to clear parts and only 3"- ive been contemplating on going up to 3.5" and hoping to free up some power and spool being robbed from a downpipe the essentially looks like an anatomically accurate colon

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

With an extra 50% exhaust flow (dependent on VE of course), you should be able to bring it down almost that much with tuning. More heat at the turbine inlet would help.

Biglady: When you say full boost are you referring to the 37-38psi from ~815whp run, or the more recent 30psi / ~780whp from the other thread?

Was that 6500-6700 in 3rd?

I could've sworn that was what you were telling us you saw on the 1.6 Colt with the revhard manifold, no? Perhaps I've misunderstood.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

yeaahhhhh, more heat at the turbine would help quite a bit, I'm not really USING the E85 yet, but hopefully that can change and i can use some more aggressive timing and spool tuning to get it rolling, but regardless though, im still probably going to get the QSV thing going, the more broad and linear powerband I can get, the better, as I intend to mostly road race, with the occasional drag every now and then


keep in mind though, general VE of larger engines decreases due to increased parasitic losses such as increased friction due to more contact area, increased loss of energy through heat, sound, ect, it just happens as engines get bigger, and isnt an area I havent tapped into yet

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Wheres the 3.5?

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Well, the 3.5 is actually kinda old school, they were doing 3.7's for awhile and now after profiling the 6g75 crank, they now offer 4.0 strokers. 4.2 if you bore out the cylinders, unfortunately, this stroker forged setup is stupid pricey, as is any stroker assembly for the 3s, the 4.0 kits are about 6.5k in just the internals, and 8300 installed in a shortblock- hence why id prefer just to keep it a 3.0 ( internals are only 1200 then for rods and pistons that are a direct fit, the crank is already forged) and duplicate the results of stroking and low end grunt with a quick spool valve on the 3.0

 

[untouchablecc]

It seems like a lot of people aren't a fan of the QSV. I myself am a spool nazi. I was going to run a cyclone on my 9:1 compression with Holset h1c. My friend talked me out of it because I start spooling at low 3k and Im more then happy with the spool time but I was dead set on making a QSV. It just was not really needed. Im sure it would help on anyset up but im dailying this thing right now and I wanted one less mechanical error (especially something I fab, thats all I need to do is shoot some metal down into my turbine on accident on my way to work).

I really like the build man. I love Holset turbos. I plan on throwing one on my mk3 supra and my future 3000gt because thats my dream car.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Well, the supra will be easy, the 3s will be a pita to install in as theres one vendor that even makes a kit, and i was not a fan of the design, or the price haha

But yeah, if your spooling by 3k rpms, then a qsv is totally unnecessary, all you will have are traction issues ans slow 1/4 times/lower traps from not being able to hook, and if say you did get tires to compensate, then all you'll probably do is break drivetrain parts by shearing something haha

For the fab portion, im not worried about my own work failing, just need good strong welds and to deburr it, thats all

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I know all the about the 3s. My brother has a 3.5 stock block, running twin 14b's on e85. All the big power guys are running the 3.5.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Ooooor a 3.7 or the 4.2 for "the big power guys"

3.5 was the peak deal awhile ago, but now its far from the "be all end all" it used to be for options

since then 3 big major platform upgrades have happened:

we got Flash and opensource working finally- way behind subaru, dsm's, evos, every other car ect, but at least it happened

we have billet boltons that hit peak torque and power at 3.4-5 grand and make 600+ awhp on pump and meth on a stock longblock with simple tunning, like the popular maft/safc combo. Heres an example vs a 701 crank hp wrx at the drag strip to show what raw powerband these aka Dr750's offer

wrx in the left lane running the 1/2 mile, 3000gt in the right running the 1/4, track is in the UK, and the owner's name is Andre or PermanentGrin online

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSkw5JJqHvk

here's the promotional thread from the turbo vendor that the video was introduced in for Q's on specs:

http://www.3si.org/forum/f1/stock-motor-dr750-3000gt-vs-701hp-wrx-vid-502172/

we have increased the size of our stroker kits from a 3.0 to options ranging 3.5-4.2L with manageable piston velocity

ie this Pampena Motorsports 6G74 3.9 to 4.2 Liter Stroker - Pampena Staged Short Blocks - Engine - Pampena Motorsports

- not to take away from anything your saying, but since then the 3.5 swap has seen massive improvements from 10 years ago, and not all the "big power guys" are running a 3.5 or above, Chris Hill- one of the vendors and former shop/dyno manager of 3sx performmance in SC's personal car is a bored out 3.1 thats making over 800, that seems like pretty big power to me. Not everything demands displacement to handle it, just proper engineering.

- not that im against displacement, a 3.5 would be nice but currently I can't afford to drop THAT kind of money for just a rotating assembly, so im living my dream vicariously through a friend's car that way. I'm helping the guy build a 3.5 swapped car thats going to be running twin Hx35's. He's using my header setup (350z runners on 3000gt exhaust flange to the block) and running the BEP housings. I'm trying to talk him into running the holsety VGT turbos as its pretty easy to get the VGT actuators to work, heck there's a writeup on turbobricks on how a man made a bracket to a wastegate, then a boost controller to that to actuate the turbo mechanically- similar to the quick spool idea. - it should be a fun build.



*** update on the car, started the first real tune session today, and blew a hole through a coupler after the first pull, the car buried the wideband at 10.5 (lowest it will go) and the car bucket quite a bit, so currently ordering a replacement and waiting on a 4ply coupler in its stead. Updates to continue

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Update on the car


went in for some dyno tunning to dead short haha

went for the first dyno session beyond the base tune, but after the first few initial pulls, the car developed a dead short, my guess is due to the wiring harness still being exposed to heat in someplace I overlooked. Most of it is wrapped in DEI cooltube and my engine bay could be sponsored by NASA, but I missed a spot somewhere unfortunately.

 

[fosforito95]

man that must suck to finally get to the dyno and something small go wrong. hope you get it up and running soon

 

[Mishimoto]

man that must suck to finally get to the dyno and something small go wrong. hope you get it up and running soon

Agreed keep us updated!

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

For sure, I'm also talking with a developer for a Quick spool valve built into the exhaust housing, it would allow you to keep your twinscroll manifold as the flapper acts as the divider between the volutes

Just small nitpicky things to address with the turbo setup otherwise, one being finding further ways to vent my hood some.

 

[ncdirtrider249]

Man, this thread is making me want to have my old 3s back. I had a single T70 set up for my old N/A fwd second gen. Ah, miss that car. Anyways, good luck with the rest of the build!

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

Thanks! I've been pricing transmission and engine builds, I'm thinking of seeing how far I can upgrade this holset to a 1000 awhp capable drag monster, and build a car to take it!

I loved my DSM- until it refused to run no matter what I threw at it for money, and I love this thing, despite its weight. Its been a great car for me. The only other cars I'd like to see in my stable is either the 2011+ mustang 5.0L GT or e46 M3 as a daily, and an older 97-99 GTS viper as my road race car


better pray that this college education of mine ends successfully and holds me over......

Thanks! I've been pricing transmission and engine builds, I'm thinking of seeing how far I can upgrade this holset to a 1000 awhp capable drag monster, and build a car to take it!

I loved my DSM- until it refused to run no matter what I threw at it for money, and I love this thing, despite its weight. Its been a great car for me. The only other cars I'd like to see in my stable is either the 2011+ mustang 5.0L GT or e46 M3 as a daily, and an older 97-99 GTS viper as my road race car


better pray that this college education of mine ends successfully and holds me over......

 

[StrovenM_DSM]

TO be honest i've always loved the 3Kgt-VR4's, I think the main reason i'm in an eclipse and not a 3kgt is because before i was well knowledged in DSM's i had heard they have horrible manual trannies (and i wouldn't have owned an auto at that time in my life PERIOD ) I heard you couldn't rebuild them yourself for some reason about being assmebled at 500* (pobably all was crap but i don't honestly know)

ANyway, i think it's still part of the diamond start motors line isnt it?? and this doesn't say "eclipsetuners" it says "dsmtuners"

Anyway... I can't wait to see the results from this, I do't see very many good builds on these cars posted anywhere, I found a cool one on a personal web page but the page lacked good info and detail like you find in a build thread.

I do wonder is the auto's in those can be built toperform at thesame level the eclipse/talon autos are now capable of. IF so I might have renewed my interest in owning one

as for the sinle Vs. twins debate, I honestly lean towards the single setup.. I like seeing the big blower mounted up in the front of the engine bay and also, as i'm sure you know, working on anything to do with the turbo in the stock/twins configuration absolutely SUCKS!!!!!!!! if i wanted something that hard to work on i would buy an Subaru (inside joke ebtween me and a friend with an Sti)

what are you using for engine management??maybe i missed it, i'll read your post again'

Anyway, keep the info coming

Duuuuddeeee I completely understand what you mean about how much of a pain in the ass it is to work on a subie My brothers WRX has been a pain to work on!!! Its getting the engine rebuilt with forged internals at the moment so we dont have to work on it for now

Okay! So I just wanted to share with you my build for my 3000gt I've been working on over the last year. BEFORE anybody bawlks that this is a DSM forum, I'll post pics of my old talon I had that got me sparked into the turbocharged tuner scene from my original early 70's muscle car I still have haha.

Ye Olde Dizzy:

Keydiver Ecu, roku (fleabay 3") turbo back with Vibrant muffler, evo3 510cc injectors, CX racing FMIC, Greedy Type S bov, ACT 2600, Evo3 intake mani, MHI Evo3 turbo, wally 190 hotwired, Injen short ram intake, Motegi FF5 rims, 97 talon spoiler, Dub Audio sponsorship, kustom broken cam gear cover mod by dbag friend - i know i know, I personally don't like open cam gears for belt wear....

View attachment 481983

View attachment 481984

View attachment 481985

So, theres my history, and with how much I had redone/rebuilt/replaced/removed/refurb'd/repatched/rejunked on that car, I was feeling pretty confident with my fab skillz. I sold it, went to school some more, bought an old hum drum 90's impreza for the daily in wisconsin winter and saved my pennies. Then when one of these popped up in MN for my favorite year AND color, I scooped it:

View attachment 481986

View attachment 481987

View attachment 481988


Essentially......its a pricey land barge relative to dsms, but it had more torque, a nice interior, sounded nice, looked good, and came with a few pricey goodies, such as an old ATR catback, KN FIPK, and Blitz dual SBC-R 4 stage EBC. Despite its weight, its deceptively fast, it also was nice common ground between my talon and my 73 mustang, still turbo, but with more displacement. Soon though, I wanted more, and about a year and a half later, this is what has become of things....


View attachment 481989


Some also would argue that the single setup isnt as efficient in the 3s vs twins due to packaging, and after going through the fab, I'll agree with them somewhat, but then again, theres twin T3 kits available for these cars anyway, so what the heck!

I know its not a 4g63 power plant, but HOPEFULLY I can help add to the data for pushing this turbo to the max to help anyone else consider using it for drag racing, ect ect.

I'll keep the thread updated and hopefully get some extra clues on what to expect due to the crowd who's pimped the holsets for years


-Turbo is an Hx52, just like BigLady's- thanks for the great data btw, I've been following your threads, and the Holset FAQ thread, and anything else I can find on this thing as users are scarce

-fuel is 1250 cc's - about the equivelant to 14-1500's on a dsm, twin walbro 400's

View attachment 481990

- 32x12x4 custom ETS fmic with 3" piping and Tial 50mm bov

View attachment 481991

View attachment 481992


-spec 4+ solid hub, welded and balanced until the twin disc next year,

-Custom 3" dp and 350z header setup (matches right up to 3000gt manifold flange and works like a charm!) with divided 60mm wg dump.

View attachment 481993

-STM avenger intake manifold

View attachment 481994

DSM remote mount brake resevior- to make room for the 3" IC piping

View attachment 481995

-Maft

-lightweight odyssey race battery,

-3" ATR for this year still

-flash tunned ecu (FINALLY, we have it too, bout' time we caught up to the modern world)

-various deletes to cleanup that spaghetti basket of an engine bay.

-Billet aluminum bracing tig welded in for the tranny.

-MSD ignition and race wires.

- ABS delete with braided lines- faulty system on the 3000gt's under load/extreme braking conditions such as roadcourse and high trap drag racing.


View attachment 481996

- race grade fluids/wear items

- solid front/rear motor mounts

View attachment 481997

View attachment 481998

Next year is the bottom end and heads, a twin disc, a set of coil overs, and possibly making 4" exhaust- as it fits! (totally thought I didnt have the room!)

View attachment 481999

View attachment 482000

- Power goals for this year are 550/600 with pump gas on the stock engine and accesss to timing control. Perhaps a bit lofty to some, but it's a fairly realistic number for the 2nd gens with the forged crank and 4 bolt mains that have been pushed to 700+ on stock enigne. After the bottom end, I'd like to try for 850 out of it. If the 67mm billet comp can't keep up, ill upgrade the internals to the Hx52 PRO with 71mm billet comp and larger turbine. I'll also be looking at a quick spool valve like this to keep power under the curve:

Quick Spool Valve Dyno Tuned Comparison Test

excellent and sensible device with no compromises for performance except space around the turbine for the bracketry and extra wg


just wanted to share whats been happening in my garage and hopefully add a little more to the all of 3 pages on the interwebs that talk ANYTHING about actually using this turbo and how it behaves....

The turbo youve got on that thing is freaking huge dude!!