Modded GS with problems

[reborn750]

First of all i would like to say hi and this looks like a great and helpful forum. Im a very mechanically inclined college student, i have 5 motorcycles (prefer the older kaw superbikes) 75 z1, 79 kz1000, 83 gs1100, 1428 kz dragbike, custom kz fighter, and drive an 86 monte carlo ss for my dd, 11:1 350, vortec heads, carter 4bbl, blah blah blah. I am not one of those guys who hates anything unless its american, i like just about anything. I decided i needed another car so i didnt put so many miles on the monte at 12mpg. I found someone to trade a bike for their supposedly non-running eclipse. Its a pretty slick lookin car, barcelona red, tan leather, 5spd, stock body other than cf hood, coilovers, rly low. The motor was rebuilt by a shop with eagle rods, wiseco pistons, stage 1 head, pt cruiser valves??(is that common?).

• He decided he would install crower cams and adjustable cam gears on his own and he doesnt think hes got it timed right. I got the car home and got it started. it was loud as f#$K and sounded horrible. Its just runnin an open header now, but im havin a test pipe made to fill the space where the cat is missing. Unplugging the o2 sensor from the back half of the exhaust helped quite a bit.
  
• It has a cheap ebay intake and i noticed theres no sensor on it but theres a hole in the intake pipe. is there supposed to be a MAF sensor or something?
  
• I tried to drive it today and experienced a problem ive never heard of before. It winds up good in neutral or with the clutch in and will roll right when the clutch starts to engage but when u let it out any further it dies. its like it wont get any gas with the clutch engaged somehow. I had a buddy pull me to the exhaust shop to get the test pipe made and while he was pulling me i put it in gear and let the clutch out, it still acts like it isnt even getting gas, doesnt wind up at all or anything but as soon as u press in the clutch u can rev to redline. ???? any ideas? could the timing being off cause this problem?

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[Tanro]

I am pretty sure that if he installed the cams and gears off time the car would either not start or bend the shit out of the valves if it did.

I think your safe on the timing but it could be something else with the sensors. I believe that 420a cars run mass density? A inlet air temp sensor should be screwed into the hole in the air filter. My saturns would run without the IAT but ran like shit and got terrible gas mileage without them.

 

[reborn750]

well since it has adjustable gears i was maybe thinkin it was close but too far off to run good, but the only thing i cant understand whether its a sensor or timing is why will it make no attempt to run when in gear but will run when clutch is engaged or in neutral

 

[Fotowntalon]

The motor was rebuilt by a shop with eagle rods, wiseco pistons, stage 1 head, pt cruiser valves??(is that common?).

For some reason my memory is failing me, i know its common to use pt cruiser parts, but cant remember if its the valves or lifters and retainers.

He decided he would install crower cams and adjustable cam gears on his own and he doesnt think hes got it timed right.

This is possible, have you checked the timing or even made sure that he kept the cam gears zeroed out?

It has a cheap ebay intake and i noticed theres no sensor on it but theres a hole in the intake pipe. is there supposed to be a MAF sensor or something?

There is no sensors on the intake, the only sensors on the intake system are the TPS and IAC on the TB and the MAP on the intake manifold

I tried to drive it today and experienced a problem ive never heard of before. It winds up good in neutral or with the clutch in and will roll right when the clutch starts to engage but when u let it out any further it dies. its like it wont get any gas with the clutch engaged somehow. I had a buddy pull me to the exhaust shop to get the test pipe made and while he was pulling me i put it in gear and let the clutch out, it still acts like it isnt even getting gas, doesnt wind up at all or anything but as soon as u press in the clutch u can rev to redline. ???? any ideas? could the timing being off cause this problem?

I've herd and been a victim of stalling problems with the crower cams, but didnt experience anything close to this. Any idea what stage of crower cams they are? Also are you sure it isnt a transmission problem?

 

[reborn750]

i will check the timing next but have to get a manual or find a writeup on how to time it. I guess im not sure its not a tranny problem but i sure wouldnt think so. i drove the car around the block today, it drives as long as u only release the clutch until it starts to grab and the car rolls at a speed of a lil faster than a walk, but if u release it any further the car will die no matter how much throttle u try to give it. I am just clueless on what would cause this. Only other thing i noticed on the car is that the top clip that plugs into the computer is broken but the plug still slides in, and holding it in further makes no changes. All these sensors and stuff are all new to me, i though i was gettin with the times when i got an electric choke

nobodys ever had this problem or knows whats causing it?

 

[reborn750]

Nobody?

 

[rocafellafw]

Have you tried plugs and wires ? Also is the check engine light on ?

 

[reborn750]

I checked and I have no vacuum leaks that I'm aware of, I jacked the front end up til both wheels were off the ground to test if my problem only occurs under load, and taking the load off did not fix anything, what could it be?

 

[rocafellafw]

It could be plugs, wires, knock sensor, bad ecu, timing, a million things you have to start eliminating stuff. Like I asked before does it have the check engine light on ?

 

[reborn750]

yes the check engine light is on, does this eliminate any of the problems u suggested? i pulled the plugs 2nite and one of them the electrode is chipped. tomorrow im gona toss in new plugs and see if it helps

 

[derrickeclipse]

if check engine light is on then find out what is on for, it just may be the problem your looking for. if not i do have the full repiar manual for the car you have. i can read through it and find the problem your looking for. first find out what the cel( check engine light) is.

 

[cyexmaster]

Actually the IAT is also on the intake manifold, I suggest you find out what the CEL is it could possibly tell you what is wrong with the car.

As for the timing of the engine here's a link that will help you out: 2GNT.com - A_Proper_Rebuild


I suggest you make an account there becuase all you could possibly need to know about the 420a is there.

And the PT cruiser lifters and rockers are a very common upgrade to the 420a valve train.

 

[reborn750]

well guys getting closer!!!!!!! i put 4 new plugs in and now the car will run in gear if i let out the clutch real slow, btw i still have the front end jacked up to take the load off. It runs in gear but wont wind up much past 1500rpm, and while running in gear it backfires and pops and sounds horrible. It still just bugs me that it doesnt do this while out of gear. As for testing the CEL, does this mean i have to find somone or take it to shop with a diagnostics tester?

 

[psx]

You have a nice eclipse
any CELs come up?
atleast in runs

 

[ktgurl87]

For your check engine light, if you can drive it at all, take it up to any parts store (autozone, advance) and they can do a basic reading. If you can't really drive it, have it towed to s hop or somewhere that has a code reader. I have no real knowledge of manual transmissions so I can't really help you out with your clutch issue. Any pictures of the engine bay? Maybe you can show us this hole you're talking about?

 

[BLINKY619]

a picture of the engine bay may help a bit...!!!!

 

[reborn750]

ya, i can post a picture of the engine bay i guess but are you going to be able to see any of the sensors? thats what your looking for in the pics right? also i dont think its an issue with the tranny/clutch, its gota be something with the motor/sensors/coil/etc i would think

sry bout the shitty phone pics, in the first pic u can see the hole in the intake pipe but i dont think its much of an issue, i dont think theres a sensor for it. I duno if these pics help much but here they are. i have a sturdevants auto a block from my house, ile try to drive it there and them diagnose the CEL, itl be a long drive ridin the clutch but its the best way to get it there

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OK, just got a call from the previous owner, he said he thinks he knows the problem. He said something about he thinks its got the wrong PCM (powertrain control module). Could this be my problem? which is the right one? where is it located?

 

[Fotowntalon]

The right one is teh one out of a 97, if he has tried to change them before and put in the wrong year, then that would cause a bunch of problems. The PCM or ECU (same thing) is behind the fuse box (driver side engine bay, left of the intake).

Also it may be the picture but is there a whole in that intake in the bend? Also what are the two wires running ontop and over of the intake manifold, and where the IM meats the IM?

 

[reborn750]

Well I'm not gona pay 200 for another stock ecu/pcm when I plan on running 10+ lbs of boost on my built bottomend, I might as well go megasquirt now. Anybody wana fill me in on this megasquirt business? Is it tuned at all when u order it? I have a built bottom end, crower cams, and a ported head, should I wait 4 the turbo to have it tuned?

 

[rocafellafw]

I know NOTHING about n/t's and MS but I'd say deff wait for the turbo until the you get it tuned 100%. I mean unless your in a rush to drive it and have no other car. I only say this because you would have to get it retuned after the turbo is installed.

 

[TotalEclipse21]

I don't see a MAP sensor on the end of the manifold.... maybe it's just the lighting.

 

[reborn750]

I can get a better pic of the intake if u want? Where should the MAP be? As for tuning I don't plan on doing any turbo or other mods til this car is running perfect so I'm not just adding to my prob. lems. As for the megasquirt I still don't undestand if u can ge it pre-tuned for factory settings? Cause as of now I just want to get a MS and install rather than track down a different ecu

 

[ktgurl87]

i think a better (more lighted) picture of the entire engine bay is in order and i don't think another ecu should be that hard to find? did you have your CEL checked out yet?

 

[reborn750]

CEL has not been checked out yet, i dont rly feel like pulling the car there. I would like to get megasquirt installed if the PO knows the ecu is the wrong one. Here are a couple pics of the engine bay after ive cleaned it up a lil, removed power steering, a/c was already gone. i want to remove the box, hoses, and lines under the front bumber on the pass. side behind where the fog light would be but im not sure what they do??? anybody got any answers? i was removing the power steering lines that run to the steering column and noticed a sensor in back side of the block that had nothing plugged into it? its gona be hard to get a pic of it, anybody know what it is?

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[Locke]

The knock, oil, and crank sensor are on the backside of the engine.

The stuff inside the bumper in front of the passenger wheel is your charcoal canister and purge valve. They're emissions equipment, part of the evap system.

MS will not come pre-tuned, although you can find some rough starter tunes on SymTech Lab's website, which ought to be enough to get you up and driving.

The 420a engine uses speed density for air measurement. The MAP sensor is located on the intake manifold opposite of the TB; yours is there. Because this engine uses speed density, the hole in the side of your intake pipe will have no effect on engine performance, though it is a source of unfiltered air. The hole is probably caused by it rubbing against the battery, which is common. Wrap some tape or something around it to seal it up until you get a proper fix in place.

Zero the cam gears, then make sure the cams are timed correctly.

Your EGR tube runs above the transmission, against the engine block, to the intake manifold. There are a couple wire looms very near this, inspect them to make sure they haven't melted and shorted to the EGR pipe.