Resolved 2G - Missing starter plate...

[Afizzle]

I installed my new motor without a starter plate. The car still runs and drives great but sounds kinda whiney while the starter is turning. Could the missing starter plate be causing my clutch to slip at WOT? Or would it more likely be the fact that I'm missing 2 clutch bolts on the flywheel?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Your missing two clutch bolts on the flywheel???? Well theres your answer your pressure plate isnt even 3/4 the way clamped.

The starter has nothing to do with that. But since you now need to pull the trans anyway, install the damn flywheel pressure plate bolt and do the starter plate then.

Why the hell would you be missing two of those bolts??

 

[Afizzle]

I had one day to get the car together and running and found out there were 2 stripped clutch bolt holes :/ I'm about to pull the trans to drill and add helicoils or swap the FW.

 

[highpsigsx]

Your car will start without the starter plate untill it gets loose and than it wont start.i had the same problem when I bought my 2g eclipse.i got tired of messing with the starter trying to keep it tight so I gave up and decide to pull the transmission. To my surprise the starter plate was missing so I bought a new one threw it in there and problem solved.

 

[thomcasey]

you may be warping the PP framing every time you press the clutch on. Definitely should fix it asap

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Classic example of why not to rush your work, Now you have to do it twice. Instead if tajing a few more days down time and doing it right. Taje a bus to work

 

[curt-s]

I had one day to get the car together and running and found out there were 2 stripped clutch bolt holes :/ I'm about to pull the trans to drill and add helicoils or swap the FW.

Drill, tap, helicoil steel for one of the highest torqued fasteners found on that engine? Helicoils aren't magical fix-alls for any stripped bolt hole. They have specific uses, and this is not one of them.
I think you should get it professionally repaired before something bad happens, and not just to your engine or transmission. I'm talking public safety.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Highest torque? The pressure plate bolts are 15ft/lbs... People heilicoil transmission holes too


But I'm all for recommending a clutch assembly replacement, flywheel at the least.

 

[Afizzle]

I want to use the FW from my first motor but the FW bolts in the used short block I bought are all 7 stripped to hell. I'm going to try those reverse thread sockets and try to just get that junk flywheel out of there...

I need to pull the trans to have it powder coated anyways. It's one of the few things remaining in my engine bay clean up project.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Wait a sec, are the CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE bolts stripped or is the bolts that bolt the flywheel to the crank stripped?

If your crank bolts are stripped I'd get a new crank....

And are the two bolts your missing on the pressure plate that clamps to the flywheel?

 

[Afizzle]

The flywheel bolts are not stripped, they are rounded off pretty nasty. Any recommendation on how to get all 7 off? I'm going to try those craftsman reverse thread bolts, PB, a torch, and an air impact tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'm going to use a dremel to file down the bolts to the next size..

I really don't know any other way? I have my new flywheel ready to go on, and it doesn't have any stripped clutch bolt holes which fixes all my problems. I'll then be putting the starter plate back on and I'm boosting again.

The car has only been driven in its current stet for a couple 100 miles so I'm hoping all will be well with the clutch and PP.

To answer you ?, it is the holes in the flywheel that the pressure bolt up to that are stripped. There are 2 and they are side by side

 

[Cdc1221]

A punch and hammer to the edge of the bolt may shock them loose. Or it could destroy them. But its probably your best option.

 

[ReYnd]

Some heat and the Craftsman Bolt-Out tools you mentioned would be the first thing I tried. Note that there's an impact grade version of those tools, since you mentioned using one of those. I primarily use hand tools and thus only have their regular, low profile version. The flywheel bolts are Grade 11 so I'm not too sure how accepting they'll be of being bitten into by the tool, but it's worth a shot. At the very worst you'll spend hours carefully drilling bolts out of the crank. I wish their heads weren't so shallow. But at the same time, I wonder how someone was able to deform them in the first place. Maybe trying to take them off without using heat to release some red Loctite.

On the other subject, a starter plate performs several tasks. In addition to providing support for the starter, which wasn't the symptom that made me realize mine was missing, it also provides proper spacing between the engine and transmission so that your clutch isn't constantly riding in the friction zone (if it was otherwise adjusted properly), proper engagement depth for the starter pinion, and in my case, keeps your ring gear from chewing into your starter and transfer case (a lot of problems discovered all at once).

 

[Afizzle]

Thanks a bunch for the info guys. Pulling the trans now I'll keep you posted. Very thankful of a supportie community. I hate it that it's gotten o this point. I've always spent the money and done the research and taken my time to do EVERYTHING on this car myself and right and it's been killing me knowing what's going wrong with such a crucial component.

For future reference? What would be the best type and size but to drill those crank bolts out should worse come to worse. Is the dremel idea to file them down another size not practical?

 

[SaulHudson]

The likely hood you are going to be able to drill those flywheel bolts with an electric drill and a off the shelf cobalt or HSS twist drills is pretty slim....

 

[Afizzle]

So I think I got lucky and there was no damage to the clutch or trans. I did notice this little scar on the inside of the trans. It definitely was not there before so missing the starter plate or those 2 pressure plate bolts def caused it.

Here's a good look at the FW bolts from hell. I'm doing my CV boots while I have everything out.. Anything else I should do while I'm there? I noticed the gasket material between the different section of the trans is peeling off. While I was using a wire brush I pulled out a nice size chunk of that gasket material and am now worried about a leak. You guys think I'm good? It's clamped down so it shouldn't be able to pull the inner seal out IMO.

[ame=http://youtu.be/Aj6ZCw9xs_4]f*** these bolts - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ReYnd]

Those aren't as bad as I thought. Grade 11... hard, but brittle... but hard! I'd honestly hit each of them with a propane torch for about 30 seconds, pound a 6-point 17mm socket onto them, make sure the flywheel can't move, obviously, and crank on it with the longest breaker bar you can muster, having someone else or some sort of fixture to hold the wrench on the bolt and make sure it doesn't slip off. If I recall correctly, they make a pretty horrid sound when they break loose. Thought my bar had snapped.

By the way, just in case, the bolt size is 12x1.25x21mm.

 

[miliman13]

Only thing that worked for me was 33 gallon compressor and a 375 Fpt impact. good luck

 

[Afizzle]

Okay guys got those bolts off. They were so bad the 17mm craftsman bolt out socket wouldn't grab them. I used a grinding attachment on a dremel to file them down and was able to hammer the 16mm craftsman bolt out socket on. Used a breaker bar on the crank and control arm and a 3 ft breaker bar on the bolts .

Got that junk flywheel off and my good ACT one back on. Starter plate is back on of course, with dowel pins this time, I was missing them too. All of my pressure plate bolts are in and everything loc tited and greased.

Went ahead and did CV boots while the axels were out, and painted the transmission. The car grabs GREAT. I haven't felt third gear like this in awhile!

 

[Afizzle]

Okay guys got those bolts off. They were so bad the 17mm craftsman bolt out socket wouldn't grab them. I used a grinding attachment on a dremel to file them down and was able to hammer the 16mm craftsman bolt out socket on. Used a breaker bar on the crank and control AEM and a 3 ft breaker bar on the bolts .

Got that junk flywheel off and my good ACT one back on. Starter plate is back on of course, with dowel pins this time, I was missing them too. All of my pressure plate bolts are in and everything greased.

Went ahead and did CV boots while the axels were out, and painted the transmission. The car grabs GREAT. I haven't felt third gear like this in awhile!

 

[miliman13]

Congrats man.

 

[fredyvalles1995]

Im glad to know u got it fexed and running again.