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2G MHI Evo 3 16G x FP 68HTA v3 - Target 350whp

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
Hi guys,

I recently got my second 98 GST Eclipse, this car came with an Ebay 16g turbo, 800cc FIC Injectors, FMIC, BOV, Walbro 255 pump, DSM link all the basics upgrades.
My goal is to keep the internals stock, run on E85 and reach 350 whp (after a complete tune-up/ maintenance). I am trying to decide which turbo would suit me better, so far I haven´t found much info about the 68HT v3.
Also, there is some controversy about the Genuine EVO 3 16G getting to those numbers (most importantly how it gets there and for how long ). I want something with a fast spool ad more efficient on the mid RPMs. I won´t intend to be Mr. Top Speed, it is really to be a fun car to feel the acceleration and play between short distances. (a "city" car).
The 68HTA costs about 40% more, however, I know for sure it gets there without pushing too hard.


What are your opinions?
Does anyone use the new HT68?

Thanks
 

Vegas Smith

20+ Year Contributor
5,037
2,915
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
40% more? If you're buying new then you're looking at $1400 for an hta68 to your door versus $3-500 for an e16g. The e16g will be fine to get 350hp with a fwd on e85. You're good to go. People have often hit 400awhp on e16gs. You just need the right parts and e85.
 

Spleen8urLSX

5+ Year Contributor
325
217
Dec 26, 2017
Elyria, Ohio
Fuel is the biggest variable here, 350 on the evo 3 16g on 93 octane pump gas isn't unheard of depending on the type of dyno. With E85 that 350 shouldn't be a problem at all. The right cams might seal the deal but I wouldn't say stock cams would pose a problem getting there. Last time I was on the dyno with a 16g we seen 420whp and 430wtq on e85 with it about tapped out, that was a stock non turbo 6 bolt engine with the exception of bc272 cams (which might I add probably weren't the BEST cam to run on that set up though they did do well being a less aggressive 272). As long as everything else is proper and the tune is good 350ish shouldn't be a problem with the 16g, I would think the 68hta v3 would be a ton of extra cost and extra lag for what you're looking to do.
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
40% more? If you're buying new then you're looking at $1400 for an hta68 to your door versus $3-500 for an e16g. The e16g will be fine to get 350hp with a fwd on e85. You're good to go. People have often hit 400awhp on e16gs. You just need the right parts and e85.

My bad is actually around 60% more. Anyway, I´m glad the Evo 3 can get me there. A new one is around $900 (Extreme PSI).
Do you have any idea of how much boost is necessary to get there?

Thanks
 

CrackedDSM

10+ Year Contributor
2,280
929
Dec 17, 2009
Pensacola, Florida
My bad is actually around 60% more. Anyway, I´m glad the Evo 3 can get me there. A new one is around $900 (Extreme PSI).
Do you have any idea of how much boost is necessary to get there?

Thanks

No. There is no magic boost number. Boost number by itself means nothing. I can weld the waste gate shut on a 14b and tell everyone I’m running 45”psi” and sound like it’s some serious setup.


You’ll just have to build the car, make sure your fuel system and intake system(nice cool air, good efficient intercooler) are all up to snuff and see what she’ll do.
 

Vegas Smith

20+ Year Contributor
5,037
2,915
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
My bad is actually around 60% more. Anyway, I´m glad the Evo 3 can get me there. A new one is around $900 (Extreme PSI).
Do you have any idea of how much boost is necessary to get there?

Thanks
@JusMX141 may be able to get you a cheaper option.

Most 16gs will hit 32-35psi then taper down to about 28-30psi at high rpms.
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
350 at the wheels on E85 screams Evo III 16G all day long. No need for a $1300 racing turbocharger to pull off what a sub-$500 16G can do.
@Vegas Smith mentioned you as an option to get a E3 Big 16. Would you mind PM me with the options you got and how they differ from a new one?
 

JusMX141

Moderator
15,134
1,219
Dec 13, 2005
Greensburg, Pennsylvania
They're all rebuilt OEM units...no real "options" to speak of. Downside is I don't ship outside the United States so if your location is correct we're unable to do business, but feel free to DM at any time if you have any further questions.
 

Kryndon

Proven Member
908
550
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
You guys and your fancy E85 while I'm out here struggling to reach 300 awhp on 93 pump and no cams or manifolds. At ~275 awhp tho soon I'm gonna get there.

+1 for sticking with the e16G and supporting mods. No-brainer if you get easy access to E85, boost that bi*** to the literal moon.
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
They're all rebuilt OEM units...no real "options" to speak of. Downside is I don't ship outside the United States so if your location is correct we're unable to do business, but feel free to DM at any time if you have any further questions.
Don´t worry about shipping I have family in Florida and friends that travel all the time to the States.
Please, send me the options available and prices.
You guys and your fancy E85 while I'm out here struggling to reach 300 awhp on 93 pump and no cams or manifolds. At ~275 awhp tho soon I'm gonna get there.

+1 for sticking with the e16G and supporting mods. No-brainer if you get easy access to E85, boost that bi*** to the literal moon.

Well, here in Brazil Ethanol is available in every gas station, we´ve been using it since the 70´s. All domestic cars are flex fuel.
The only downside is to do the math because our gas already comes with 27% of ethanol. So the ratio if I am not wrong is 3:1
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
They're all rebuilt OEM units...no real "options" to speak of. Downside is I don't ship outside the United States so if your location is correct we're unable to do business, but feel free to DM at any time if you have any further questions.
I have sent you a message about the turbos and shipping.
 

99dsmer4g63

Proven Member
173
86
Sep 20, 2022
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
Figured I’d just add my experience here for what it’s worth. About 10 years ago, (anything not listed is stock) 20g China turbo 19psi, 93 pump, 850cc injectors, 255 walbro with no fpr I wasn’t experiencing any overrun also, fmic with hard piping, full 3 inch exhaust no cat, 02 housing external china gate, tuned on a black box with ceddy mods and a wideband. Stock and very tired 7 bolt made 330 at the wheels on the street. John (my tuner) said the tune was VERY conservative. My main concern would be pushing that china 16g above 20 psi and expecting it to last….ask me why I don’t have a china turbo anymore LOL. Seems pushing them beyond there recommend psi limit shortens their life expectancy quickly from what I’ve experienced. But I was 18 and didn’t have a lot of cash either at the time.
-Daniel
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
Figured I’d just add my experience here for what it’s worth. About 10 years ago, (anything not listed is stock) 20g China turbo 19psi, 93 pump, 850cc injectors, 255 walbro with no fpr I wasn’t experiencing any overrun also, fmic with hard piping, full 3 inch exhaust no cat, 02 housing external china gate, tuned on a black box with ceddy mods and a wideband. Stock and very tired 7 bolt made 330 at the wheels on the street. John (my tuner) said the tune was VERY conservative. My main concern would be pushing that china 16g above 20 psi and expecting it to last….ask me why I don’t have a china turbo anymore LOL. Seems pushing them beyond there recommend psi limit shortens their life expectancy quickly from what I’ve experienced. But I was 18 and didn’t have a lot of cash either at the time.
-Daniel
Not bad, at all for knock off 20g.
My last car (the avatar one) I had an Ebay Big 16G, 1200 cc injectors, 3'" exhaust, E85, and 20psi. I never took to the dyno however we estimated 320/330 crank hp. Guess what happened when I went over 20psi?
Smoke!!!! In less than 2 months.
 

99dsmer4g63

Proven Member
173
86
Sep 20, 2022
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
So it seems I’m not the only one to experience this. I think the china turbos can do okay for the price with a good clean oil supply and low boost. I’ve had a cheap cx racing 20g on one of my gsx’s this one is actually a gst now that has lasted over 5,000 miles with no coolant going through it but only 12psi also. But when they list their recommended boost levels it is something to take into consideration.
-Daniel
 

Spleen8urLSX

5+ Year Contributor
325
217
Dec 26, 2017
Elyria, Ohio
My first 16g was a ching chong special I bought new in the box for 100 bucks locally. It worked, it was fun, but also started smoking at 4k miles at 22psi, and it wasn’t at that level it’s whole life. To me cheap turbo or not, lasting barely an oil change interval on a daily driver at a real comfortable point in that turbos efficiency range isn’t something to write home about. However, while I’ve seen multiple arguments that the copies don’t perform like their MHI counterparts I’ll be the first to say while that might be true you’d never see it without looking at back to back data, from the butt dyno and scooting around town performance feels exactly the same, it feels like a 16g no matter the origin or genuine or not. The only credit I can give them is I do actually prefer the turbine housing from the China copies over the MHI ones, while they aren’t cast with nickel like a true MHI Evo 3 16g 7cm housing they are cast more open and what I’ve seen not much porting one can do along with the fact they come with a pretty large wastegate flapper right off the rip, not to mention the wastegate actuator with adjustable preload works quite well. With that being said, despite the wastegate flapper being large the passage is tiny in comparison and needs a lot of porting for someone looking to run low boost to take full advantage of the large wastegate flapper, and the arm the flapper mounts to tends to have issues. All things that can be addressed easily though. When JusMX built my current 14b I opted for the 7cm China turbine housing from the knock off 16g over the real deal. As far as the China td05 20g goes I’ve never actually used one or had any hands on with one like I have the 16g to say how it compares to a real MHI unit performance wise, however I will say 250 bucks or not I see nothing to glorify about a turbo that won’t live unless you keep it turned down below it’s efficiency range. Not bashing anyone of course for using them, I’m the first to say sometimes testing the limits of these cheap parts is a blast or sometimes a deal on one pops up when you don’t have a lot of cash at the time so it serves its purpose, I have no problem admitting I can have fun being a cheap skate, but in the same light I’d find it hard to pay 200 bucks for a knockoff 16g or 250 bucks or whatever for a knockoff 20g when real MHI 16g’s in working condition pop up on here and on Facebook almost weekly in the $300 price range.

It always blows my mind when I see someone talk about how they knew someone who had one and it ripped and did this or that while in reality it wasn’t on the car a whole 1000 street miles (not saying that’s what’s going on here but when I was still on social media that guy would show up on every post about the knockoffs). That’s the type of input offered that gives a false sense of security about them and leads to misinformation when the inevitable has already been proven since they first appeared on eBay 15 or so years ago. Just like I’d like to ultimately eventually do back to back to back testing on the ported 2g manifold, FP manifold, and pile of crap DNP knockoff tubular manifolds (that all these years later people STILL buy thinking they’re helping something) when mated to a td05 turbine turbo, when I feel I’ve gone as far as I can with the 14b I’d like to test JusMX’s revised China 16g and 20g’s cranked out to the moon to further prove what they are and what we’ve known for years. That’s not at all to knock what he does to them as he’s my go to for turbochargers, but he has figured a way to help them live a bit happier and longer, all that test would prove is even with someone who knows the ins and outs of turbochargers fixing some of the obvious manufacturing flaws they still won’t live like a real MHI unit when you turn one all the way out (again I’m talking turned out to all the air they can blow, not a 14-15psi daily driver).
 

chrysler kid

20+ Year Contributor
2,610
579
Dec 20, 2002
Mckinney, Texas
Ive had 3 project cars that came with the ebay 16g turbo

For the $160 they are selling for, the turbo works fine at 12-16 psi.

Is it more powerful than a 14b, yeah sure feels like it

Will the turbo charger eventually make noises like a jet engine? Yup

Ive never had one blow up or blow up a motor at stock boost levels. But just from the noises I hear them make i can tell you the cartridge has undergone zero product testing and is made to the absolute minimum standards.

My hunch is the oversized snap ring behind the inlet, compresses the face of the housing slightly onto the compressor wheel. The face of the turbo is slowly eating the wheel giving you the extra loud turbo noise. Or the machined tolerances were just sub par to begin with. After about 3500 miles they start becoming pretty noisy

Sounded like an f18 taking off while it scraped itself against the housing. It never actually failed and would still show 14psi but it seemed like it moved less and less air as you put more mileage on them

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 

Dan Rittner

Probationary Member
15
2
Jun 4, 2016
Sao Paulo, South_America
I spoke with some people in the Eclipse community down here and most of them don´t believe stock internals would safely get even to 300whp. I am getting concerned about that 350whp LOL. I have researched a lot on many threads where I even saw some insane guys talking about 500awhp on internals (1g 6 bolt).
The car has arrived from the shop, and compression, ignition, and fuel supply are ok, However, I did not ask to open the engine and check all the components. The car supposedly has 52k miles.

Another controversy here is about gas x ethanol (in any proportion) some turners claim is perfectly possible to get the same results with gas due to the 4G63T compression (10:1) not being so high. Quite honestly it is the first time I heard this, to me ethanol in any proportion would be more efficient.

Any thoughts?
 
Last edited:

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,439
2,954
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
And this is why dsms have gotten such a bad reputation. Way too much misinformation and now it's difficult to sort good info from bad.
Some of us here forged the trail through.
Trust objective data. Stay off social media concerning dsms.
 

Vegas Smith

20+ Year Contributor
5,037
2,915
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
I spoke with some people in the Eclipse community down here and most of them don´t believe stock internals would safely get even to 300whp. I am getting concerned about that 350whp LOL. I have researched a lot on many threads where I even saw some insane guys talking about 500awhp on internals (1g 6 bolt).
The car has arrived from the shop, and compression, ignition, and fuel supply are ok, However, I did not ask to open the engine and check all the components. The car supposedly has 52k miles.

Another controversy here is about gas x ethanol (in any proportion) some turners claim is perfectly possible to get the same results with gas due to the 4G63T compression (10:1) not being so high. Quite honestly it is the first time I heard this, to me ethanol in any proportion would be more efficient.

Any thoughts?
I suspect they lied to you on purpose. None of that is even close to true.
 

99dsmer4g63

Proven Member
173
86
Sep 20, 2022
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
My car was stock motor and tired with 160k on the clock and it was just fine at 330 wheel. Lasted till 175k with an 18-19 year old kid driving it. Didn’t beat the crap outta it but enjoyed it for sure. Only reason I pulled it was because I built a different motor to go in.
Current setup on a stock rebuilt bottom end, Brian crower springs , 272 cams , fresh valves and arp head studs is making 430 wheel and tuning was cut short due to an over boost issue which I have corrected and going back shortly to finish. Turbo is a 25g and at 24 psi on 93. 430 wheel was letting off at 6000 rpms with a lot of timing pulled trying to cut the boost down.
I will be switching to e85 this winter and will probably turn it up to 28 psi in 3-5 gear and should be easily be over 450 and the only thing I’m concerned about is my stock transmission which I’m looking to getting upgraded but it seems I will have to wait patiently and baby the trans till the time comes for dsm transmission to be built again. The 7 bolt rods are the weakest link on the bottom end IMO
I’m not saying you can’t get some of the same results between 93 and e85 however I think the car will be much safer with e85 at higher boost levels.
-Daniel
 
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