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1G Metal missing from starter

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
My starter has been making a good awful grinding sound so I thought I should remove it and check it. This is what I found.

I think I know what this means but I would be very happy if someone would come and tell me I have the wrong starter or something that doesn't involve pulling the transmission off.

I am new to DSMs and have only had this one a few weeks.

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pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
My starter has been making a good awful grinding sound so I thought I should remove it and check it. This is what I found.

I think I know what this means but I would be very happy if someone would come and tell me I have the wrong starter or something that doesn't involve pulling the transmission off.

I am new to DSMs and have only had this one a few weeks.

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My first guess is the lower bolt to the transmission, behind the tcase, is missing. The bellhousing will flex but the flywheel won't. Anything in the way contacts flywheel. Additiobally, If you are missing the dust shield tcase will grind against the flywheel when you clutch in. Ask me how I know.

You can see the wear patten. It's circular. Flywheel is contacting starter. If my first guess is wrong check crank endplay.
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
Thats actually great news! I did find one of the upper bolts near the starter that held the transmission on to be completely back out, hanging from the hole and only there still because it fell against a wiring harness. So the probability of the lower bolt being missing is quite high. I will check on that ASAP.

I do believe the dust shield is still there from what I could tell. I will double check that also.

I thought the same, the flywheel is for sure contacting it. I do get a HORRIBLE grinding sound when the starter engages but not when the car is running. I haven't been able to take it on a proper drive, so I do not know if it rubs while shifting.

The engine was recently rebuilt by a previous owner. I am not sure of their skills or if they even did the rebuild themselves. I hope its not crank endplay. If so I WAY overpaid for this thing.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Thats actually great news! I did find one of the upper bolts near the starter that held the transmission on to be completely back out, hanging from the hole and only there still because it fell against a wiring harness. So the probability of the lower bolt being missing is quite high. I will check on that ASAP.

I do believe the dust shield is still there from what I could tell. I will double check that also.

I thought the same, the flywheel is for sure contacting it. I do get a HORRIBLE grinding sound when the starter engages but not when the car is running. I haven't been able to take it on a proper drive, so I do not know if it rubs while shifting.

The engine was recently rebuilt by a previous owner. I am not sure of their skills or if they even did the rebuild themselves. I hope its not crank endplay. If so I WAY overpaid for this thing.
It's not possible to say whether the grinding is contact or it was contacting and now the starter is damaged. I would verify nothing is moving then you will know. I assume you still have a clutch switch so you have to clutch in to start. You may consider eliminating that. Most of us do anyway.
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
Funny you mention the clutch switch.

The person I got it from said they never heard the starter grind when engaged. The also re enabled clutch pedal switch before I came to look at it. Could those two things be related?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Funny you mention the clutch switch.

The person I got it from said they never heard the starter grind when engaged. The also re enabled clutch pedal switch before I came to look at it. Could those two things be related?
Yup. You will know once you look at the items I suggested
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
I had a look under the car today to check for those bolts. I'm not too familiar with this particular model and it's quite difficult for me to see under the car because it's lowered and all I have is a low profile floor jack.

I do believe I am missing at least 3 bolts on the bottom of the transmission. It looks to me that these are the ones mentioned in a previous post. I do look to be missing the inspection cover also.

Also looks like there is some damage to the flywheel from contacting the starter. Or maybe that's starter aluminum stick to the flywheel. Hard to tell.

I need to source these bolts and install them. Same with the inspection cover. Hopefully that will solve my problem.

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99dsmer4g63

Proven Member
149
73
Sep 20, 2022
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
You should be able to find the bolts on STM’s website. Also I believe Paul is referring to the plate that is sandwiched between the trans and engine; not the inspection cover. If the dust shield is missing between the motor and trans the flywheel would be visible when looking at the starter area and is quite obvious when looking at the area between the motor and transmission; it’s only like an 1/8” thick or so. Also on the 2g not sure if 1g are the same but there is one bolt that threads into the transmission from the motor side, all the other ones thread into the motor from the trans side. Look above the t-case and see if the bottom corner of the motor has a bolt in it or not, it is a longer 12mm bolt.
-Daniel
 

Vegas Smith

20+ Year Contributor
5,035
2,905
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
I had a look under the car today to check for those bolts. I'm not too familiar with this particular model and it's quite difficult for me to see under the car because it's lowered and all I have is a low profile floor jack.

I do believe I am missing at least 3 bolts on the bottom of the transmission. It looks to me that these are the ones mentioned in a previous post. I do look to be missing the inspection cover also.

Also looks like there is some damage to the flywheel from contacting the starter. Or maybe that's starter aluminum stick to the flywheel. Hard to tell.

I need to source these bolts and install them. Same with the inspection cover. Hopefully that will solve my problem.

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Those are transfer case bolts.
 

99dsmer4g63

Proven Member
149
73
Sep 20, 2022
Shippensburg, Pennsylvania
Those are transfer case bolts.
You need verify that you the starter shim plate in between the motor and transmission. As Vegas said you are missing transfer case bolts. Paul mentioned earlier without the plate the transfer case will hit the flywheel. I’m curious if previous owner didn’t install it and then removed them bolts to allow room for flywheel to spin without hitting the t case.
-Daniel
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
You should be able to find the bolts on STM’s website. Also I believe Paul is referring to the plate that is sandwiched between the trans and engine; not the inspection cover. If the dust shield is missing between the motor and trans the flywheel would be visible when looking at the starter area and is quite obvious when looking at the area between the motor and transmission; it’s only like an 1/8” thick or so. Also on the 2g not sure if 1g are the same but there is one bolt that threads into the transmission from the motor side, all the other ones thread into the motor from the trans side. Look above the t-case and see if the bottom corner of the motor has a bolt in it or not, it is a longer 12mm bolt.
-Daniel
Is this the shield that everyone is talking about?
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Thank you! I will get these on order. Probably will also order the Transmission bolt kit as well.
You need verify that you the starter shim plate in between the motor and transmission. As Vegas said you are missing transfer case bolts. Paul mentioned earlier without the plate the transfer case will hit the flywheel. I’m curious if previous owner didn’t install it and then removed them bolts to allow room for flywheel to spin without hitting the t case.
-Daniel
I believe the shim plate is there, see pictures above. I will order the bolts ASAP and get them installed.
I wouldn't doubt if that was the case. I have found a few things that suggest the motor was put back together and installed into the car half ass and/or in a hurry. The flywheel does indeed spin without hitting anything. Its just the starter to flywheel action that is a problem.
Some of what you're showing isn't the trans. It's the transfercase.
Yiu need to check the trans bolts.
Sorry about that. Im trying to see what bolts your talking about but with the amount of stuff missing and just thrown in im not too sure what exactly bolts im looking for.
I hate to ask but do you have a picture of the specific bolts your talking about?
Im going to try and find an exploded view showing the bolts in question. The extremepsi store linked above shows there are 6 bolts that hold the transmission to the block.
 
Last edited:

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
I used the diagram from this product page to figure out what bolts go where.

Found bolt 20999U (RED) loose so tightened that up.
I am missing 20999P (Purple), but I think that's just a small bolt to hold the corner of the spacer and not a source of my issue.

I look to be missing both 20999Q (Yellow)
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and 20999S (Orange)
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I assume this could be the source of my issue?

Also where do the two dowels go?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
I used the diagram from this product page to figure out what bolts go where.

Found bolt 20999U (RED) loose so tightened that up.
I am missing 20999P (Purple), but I think that's just a small bolt to hold the corner of the spacer and not a source of my issue.

I look to be missing both 20999Q (Yellow)
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and 20999S (Orange)
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I assume this could be the source of my issue?

Also where do the two dowels go?
You don't need transfercase bolts. You aren't missing a mount bolt, you're missing a cover bolt.

On the six trans bolts only 4 actually do anything. Check those 4. The long ones. They're all in the diagram. The one labeled 'Jesse bolt' is the most important and it is on the backside of the trans above the transfercase. It's the only one that goes through the block into the transmission.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
1,101
510
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
You really should consider some jack stands, since you described difficulty getting under the car beacause of a low jack lift. I would never trust a jack to get under the car. Maybe I didn’t read that right.
I swapped in a rebuilt 5sp & xfer in my 90 last winter, and used all new bolts for the trans & xfer just to be safe. They don’t cost much. Pretty sure I bought from JNZ, but several vendors will stock them, and they all deserve some business.
Also I removed the clutch switch, mostly because the wires broke when removing the pedals, and I couldn’t find a replacement. Gives you the option of moving the car a little with the starter in an emergency (stalled at a stoplight…).
Have you downloaded or otherwise obtained the Factory Service Manual yet (2 volumes). It’s easy to find in the Tech articles.
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
You don't need transfercase bolts. You aren't missing a mount bolt, you're missing a cover bolt.

On the six trans bolts only 4 actually do anything. Check those 4. The long ones. They're all in the diagram. The one labeled 'Jesse bolt' is the most important and it is on the backside of the trans above the transfercase. It's the only one that goes through the block into the transmission.
This is the Jesse bolt hole correct? On the back side of the block above the output shaft.

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You really should consider some jack stands, since you described difficulty getting under the car beacause of a low jack lift. I would never trust a jack to get under the car. Maybe I didn’t read that right.
I swapped in a rebuilt 5sp & xfer in my 90 last winter, and used all new bolts for the trans & xfer just to be safe. They don’t cost much. Pretty sure I bought from JNZ, but several vendors will stock them, and they all deserve some business.
Also I removed the clutch switch, mostly because the wires broke when removing the pedals, and I couldn’t find a replacement. Gives you the option of moving the car a little with the starter in an emergency (stalled at a stoplight…).
Have you downloaded or otherwise obtained the Factory Service Manual yet (2 volumes). It’s easy to find in the Tech articles.
I have some safe jacks that I need to put under there. Getting the car high enough is difficult is what I meant. The jacks do not fit without lifting the car first but now that I think about it that's normal for most jacks LOL.

I have removed the clutch switch since making this post. It was mentioned by Paul that I should do this.

I found a few very helpful manuals but I haven't found the one for a 1gb models. I'll keep searching.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Yeah that looks right and yours is missing. Given I can see flywheel teeth your inspection plate is missing also

Notice that hole is threaded. That bolt does NOT thread into that. It goes through the hole in the block and threads into the transmission.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Tried installing the Jesse bolt... The threads are stripped. Probably why the bolt is no longer there.
Looks like im going to have to pull the transmission off to do some sort of thread repair on it.
Once you get the downpipe and tcase off there may be enough room. Possibly drivers axle too. Those would have to come out anyway.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
1,101
510
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Not sure I would try to repair that thread with the transmission still in. The block would be in the way, making it more difficult or likely to do more damage. Not saying it couldn’t be done, but even with all the hassle of dropping the trans, I take that route.
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
I would have to drill a hole though the engine side big enough for the thread repair insert to pass through. I would need roughly a 1/2" hole. Im not sure that would leave enough material on the engine side to safely keep a hold of the bolt head for years to come.

Is it possible to remove the trans, or at least pop it out far enough to access that hole? Maybe I can twist the housing enough to reveal the hole and make the repair?

I really dont want to have to remove the engine but if I have to then I will.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,298
2,843
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
I would have to drill a hole though the engine side big enough for the thread repair insert to pass through. I would need roughly a 1/2" hole. Im not sure that would leave enough material on the engine side to safely keep a hold of the bolt head for years to come.

Is it possible to remove the trans, or at least pop it out far enough to access that hole? Maybe I can twist the housing enough to reveal the hole and make the repair?

I really dont want to have to remove the engine but if I have to then I will.
Good points are made about room to move but I don't understand what you're saying. That bolt is way smaller diameter. The bit to make a new hole and the tap should be way smaller than the block hole if memory serves. You could probably easily check as I think the block tapped hole is the same size as the bigger trans bolts. Would be easily compared to the smaller bolt and tools. Doesn't everybody have 8mm helicoils laying around. 😁
 

silentsnow31802

Probationary Member
23
2
Sep 23, 2022
California
Good points are made about room to move but I don't understand what you're saying. That bolt is way smaller diameter. The bit to make a new hole and the tap should be way smaller than the block hole if memory serves. You could probably easily check as I think the block tapped hole is the same size as the bigger trans bolts. Would be easily compared to the smaller bolt and tools. Doesn't everybody have 8mm helicoils laying around. 😁
The hole is about 10mm in diameter. The thread insert is 7/16 outer thread. So it might work. It's very close. I'll know for sure tomorrow once the inserts show up. If I only have to drill it out a couple mm I'll do that.
 
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