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metal found in oil pan, needle bearings?

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Cdaug720

Probationary Member
28
0
Mar 16, 2011
Layton, Utah
Hey guys, not long ago I did my oil pan gasket and oil filter housing gaskets on my car because they were leaking a bit and also switched to full synthetic. I used a gasket with rtv on each one. I ran it for about 2 weeks and noticed the leak seemed worse and a friend recommended I redo the pan with only rtv and no gasket and possibly switch back to conventional. (But he's sort of anti synthetic for whatever reason) So I dropped the pan again to reseal it (it was leaking again) and noticed the inside of the pan had dust sized metallic flakes everywhere and I also found a chunk of metal (is not magnetic) along with these 4 small pin looking things (they all are magnetic) that I think are needle bearings. I did some research and I found nothing on any dsm forum. But I found a thread on an ls1 forum where someone had similar pins/bearings in his oil pan also and everyone said they were needle bearings out of one of the rocker arms. I'm pretty sure that's what they have to be, but I wanted to be positive since I've never seen anything like this before. It just puzzles me how they made it down to the pan and I only found 4 of them. I pulled the valve cover and did not find any more of them in there. I'm also concerned about the metallic flakes and chunk I found and I'm wondering what it came from. The car is currently parked because I'm scared to drive it til I figure this out and I haven't had much time to dig into it. It's my dd so I need to get it running asap. Car ran perfectly fine and showed no symptoms that anything was wrong other than leaking more oil. Oil pressure was reading normal also and I haven't ran it since I found this. Any input would be great.

The penny is for size comparison I didn't find it in the pan, although that would be a real mystery LOL
 

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The cam followers/rockers in our engines have rollers, which ride on needle bearings similar to these. You said that you had the valve cover off of your engine, did you take a look at the rockers and did any of them seem different than the rest? Did you make a close inspection of each one, or was it just a general look over? If it was a general look over, I'd suggest taking a closer look at each one individually, just to be sure.
 
Yeah I've never seen anything like this before definitely foreign to me also. I actually just looked real quick and I only looked to see if I could find metal pieces. Everything looked fine at a quick glance but like I said I didn't have much time to spend on it I've been working 6 days a week and my car is at my mom's house in her garage about 45 min away. I'm hoping I can make it up there this coming weekend to check things out. I just thought I'd ask around and do some research in the mean time. I was about to pick up a 6 bolt head soon anyways so maybe this will be a good time.

Do you know how many of those rollers are in each rocker? I only found 4. I was going to turn the motor over by hand and hope some are caught up on the rotating assembly and will fall out. I'd bet there are a lot more than 4 per rocker and I don't want them floating around my motor so I want to find them all
 
Depending on how much you want to dig into it, you may want to inspect your front oil case for damage. If chunks like this are making it to your oil pan I'd worried about the health of the engines oil system.

If your turbo is fed from your cylinder head, chunks could make there way too.

Just things to think about, when inspecting your motor...
 
Yeah that's a good call. I'd rather be safe than sorry. And it is my dd so I want to get it running quick, but I can manage for a few weeks without it. I want to look through everything possible and make sure it's good to go. Like I said in the original post my oil pressure read fine and never was higher than usual so I don't think there is any blockage anywhere

Where do you guys think that chunk could have came from? Something had to have made contact with something else to have a chunk like that broken off...
 
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From the basic design of the factory roller follower, it would be next to impossible for the needle bearings to fall out, without the whole roller wheel falling out.

Checking for a failed follower is simple, pull the VC and look.

Depending on what turbo you have, You may have a torrington thrust bearing. But I honestly can not think of a turbo with one.
 
How long have you owned the car? Any info about how the previous owner drove or maintained the car?

My guess is that someone that owned the car before you had a rocker arm break. I had an over-rev incident happen years ago that blew off three rocker arms, one of which was left in pieces. I was unaware of the needle bearings inside of the arm, replaced the rocker arms, and kept driving the car. When I pulled the oil pan over a year later for a leaking rear main seal, I found six needle bearings at the bottom of the pan. They had just been sitting there all that time. I have no idea where the others ended up... :p
 
Just to put a note in there that the assumption exists that the material in the pan is from the engine.
Could have been something else that dropped in down an oil return hole or otherwise.
 
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