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Street Build "Lucky" Sevens Talon

Rating:
5/5,
Year:
1997
Model/Trim:
Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  1. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Possibly the last update for the near future. The Talon is 100% done and running strong as ever. Did the full break-in. Swapped to my usual Motul 10w-40 oil and managed to paint the charge piping black, as well as fit the front air ducting. For some reason it now boosts even higher, up to 0.8 bar (~11.5psi) which feels quick especially from a standstill and around town. I know I'm not even pushing the 16G for now but it feels more powerful than the T25. I have no real way to measure flow right now but I'd take a bench guess and say she's around 250 hp at the crank. The air duct also fits fairly well with my current intercooler setup. The pipes sit real nice in black and give that stealthy look when you pop the hood open. Not sure if I mentioned it before but the intercooler is a 3.5" core which may look small in the pictures but it's quite girthy and sits real nice in the 2GB Talon bumper with very minimal cutting (had to take off less than an inch on the plastic bumper support). The guy I got it from said he dynod 420 hp with that cooler and my goals are more or less in that ballpark, so it should last me well.

    Oh, just to explain what's going on behind the intercooler. I had to cut that middle vertical support bracket to make clearance, and made a custom bracket with adjustment to both act as support for the hood but also hold the power steering lines in place and offer easy adjustment of the hood latch. There's a long bolt on the inside and I tapped the existing hole so that as you thread the bolt, it pushes or pulls the center section. This way you can set it up to minimize the gap between the hood and bumper, but also make it so that the hood closes super easily (with 1 finger) and it doesn't wobble from the air etc.

    I'll say it again, but I'm super happy and relieved it all turned out well. It was my first time going all out on this and rebuilding an engine on my own essentially. I can finally relax and forget about it for the time being, haha. I think the next step is DSMlink+Eprom and a wideband O2. That's a lot of bucks but hopefully in the near future I can get the whole kit from someone on here, or maybe wait for V4 it if ever comes out. Oh, I don't even have a laptop...:ohdamn:

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    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. tlikethedrink

    tlikethedrink Proven Member

    212
    9
    Joined Sep 11, 2007
    ABQ, New Mexico
    Good job!
     

    Street Build 335  10

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Kryndon likes this.
  3. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Nothing much around here, car is running strong as ever almost a year since the initial teardown. Im thinking of heading up to Western Europe in the next few months so that will be a good test for it. Here’s a few fresh pics of the bay and also one of the rear. I tried experimenting with plasti dipping the center panel and cutting out red vinyl to cover the letters. I think it looks nice.

    B0BC352D-81A8-4633-82A8-11F35729761E.jpeg
    2B704A4C-F572-4923-BA3A-2816413AE513.jpeg
     

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    tk106 likes this.
  4. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Stefan, how did you get a turbo model? Thought they weren’t available in Europe.
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
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  5. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I like how the tail lights turned out
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
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    Kryndon likes this.
  6. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    You're right, turbo DSMs were never sold in Europe because of emissions reasons. I tracked the full history of this particular Talon. It was bought brand new in 1998 in Quebec, Canada, then it was imported into Romania that same year by the first owner. He was some type of businessman. The car was kept and driven solely in Romania for the majority of its life (1998-2016). In 2016 I found the listing online and immediately organized a way to go get it and brought it over to my home country.

    However, because our European Eclipses also sport the 4G63 naturally aspirated dual cam motors, a lot of people simply install turbos on them (such as the stock T25 or Evo 16Gs) and essentially convert them to a GS-T. Still, there's many easy ways to see if it's an authentic US/Canada turbo model or if it was converted. Additionally some turbo 2Gs were officially sold in Russia, but since they aren't part of the EU, they don't follow the same emissions standards.
     

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    tk106 and ec17pse like this.
  7. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Pretty cool you know the history:thumb:
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Sorta had it coming but I guess you can never be too early with this. Finally pulled the plug and bought my first Wideband O2 sensor! I got the Innovate LC-2 unit with the DB red gauge to match the rest of my interior lights. I was very worried with the wiring but all went well. I know some of you recommended wiring directly from the battery, but I wanted to keep all wires within the cabin. I will do a re-wire later on. Had to remake my simple gauge panel to accommodate the new gauge. The first time I just cut a hole right next to the boost gauge and installed the wideband gauge there, but after the first test drive I realized I'm a dumbass, the gear shifter was blocking the view entirely in 3rd and 5th gear :ohdamn: So I remade it and positioned it to the far right. It's alright for now.

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    Also finally started making my own boost leak tester, I should have it assembled tomorrow and recheck all my piping.

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    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    tk106 likes this.
  9. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    If that tester leaks, replace the rubber valve with a metal one. I originally had a rubber one but it kept leaking. Changed to metal screw type and never leaked again
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Kryndon likes this.
  10. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Wow, yep, almost 1 full month of frustration, wasting money and fuel, waiting for people to do their thing and a sh**ton of taking the pipes on and off. What am I talking about? Well I ended up making my own boost leak tester earlier last month. And holy MOLY was she leaking bad. I really have no idea why I did not BLT the damn thing as soon as I rebuilt the engine and installed my new piping last year :ohdamn:... The boost leaks were as follows:

    1 MAJOR leak at the FPR vacuum from the Intake line.
    1 MAJOR leak at the BOV flange weld.
    1 MAJOR leak at the rewelded 16G original Jpipe.
    1 Small leak at the Jpipe gasket.
    1 Small leak at the BOV flange gasket
    2 Small leaks at the coupler before the TB elbow.

    IMG_1429.JPG IMG_1432.JPG
    With all these leaks, as soon as I pressurized the system to let's say 1.5 bar (22psi), it drops down to 0.3 bar (4psi) in less than 4 seconds. We're talking HUGE FRIGGIN' LEAKS :beatentodeath:
    I've wasted quite a bit of fuel over the past year because of this. It would have ran filthy rich. Interestingly, the 16G still manages to boost up to 12-13 psi and creep to near 19 psi if I keep it flat to the floor. So I kept thinking it ran fine (worst thought to have, ALWAYS assume she ain't runnin' right!!!). The theory would be that, even though I'm having all these leaks, my current setup's maximum potential air draw is not high enough to cause the 16G to run out of air. It simply has to work way harder to keep providing the same amount of flow, but it would be way hotter air and thus, less density (and less power). What I'm saying is, you can still achieve your target boost pressure even with major leaks, but the air will be much hotter and increase the potential for knock and other bad magics.

    So l said okay then, how bad would it be to fix two welds and straighten the flanges? OOOOOOOOH BOY WAS I IN FOR A TRIP :cry:

    This is the chronology of all the events:
    • Take pipes off, go across the city to get the BOV flange rewelded. Still leaks.
    • Take Jpipe off, go have it rewelded. Still leaks
    • Go to another guy across the city with the car, spend all day making a new flange and rewelding it. The bov flange doesn't leak anymore but the jpipe still leaks.
    • Go buy a piece of metal. Draw up a CAD drawing of the Jpipe flange, this time thicker with a small lip to help the weld. Have someone with a mill machine it out. 3 days later he calls me and says "you can finish cutting out the profile with an angle grinder...:barf:
    • Try not to get killed while using the angle grinder without any sort of clamps or vice. Cut the usable pipe from the original 16G Jpipe.
    • Take the new flange to another guy to have it welded. I had to go on foot again, pretty much across town. He welded it, but I realized I could put my boost leak tester on it right there and test it.
    • Walk back home, take the BLTester, walk back to the welder. Pressurize that bi***, AND FINALLY, NO LEAKS FROM THAT STUPID GODDAMN WELD! :pray:
    IMG_1494.JPG IMG_1496.JPG
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    I just got done with cleaning all the piping (again), painting them (again), and this time I just applied a thin layer of black RTV to act as a gasket. No matter how much I tried sanding these things down, they always ended up warped and the normal style gaskets leaked. And since I've had success with RTV on uneven surfaces before, I decided to use it. Apply a thin layer, snug the bolts down, wait 1 hour, then tighten them to infinity. Even though I need to do one final BLT on Monday to confirm that ALL my leaks are gone, I feel I deserve to have some success finally with this, so I'm updating my journal in advance :pray:

    Also, went to my local JDM meet a few days ago, and managed to snap some pics of my buddy's R33 GTS-T. His car has almost identical mileage to mine, give or take 20-30 miles. Both are black with red accents here and there. The R33 is my third dream car after the Talon, so I always get super excited when I see one. Anyway, that's all from me. If there's anything to take away from all this, it's that you can NEVER be sure of your car's exact condition and especially boost leaks. The gauge might read the right boost but until you check it properly, you'll never know! BLT BLT BLT :beatentodeath:

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    Attached Files:

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
    1,074
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Nice man. Glad it’s all fixed.
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    I give up. Enough is enough. All the other welds hold but now a tiny pinhole leak appeared again around the BOV flange. I borrowed some compound metal glue and covered it. Gonna let it sit for 24 hours. I just can't bring myself to redo that pipe all over again. :mad:

    84728125_584011182148568_6222184160404963328_n.jpg
     

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    That’s not a bad leak and won’t make a huge difference on how it runs and drives. Hopefully this works and I think it should. If not, try that stuff on the inside BUT it’ll become a huge issue if that ever came loose and gets sucked in the head.
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    I'm thinking it should work too. The hole was very small it was barely bubbling compared to how the others were. But still, a leak is a leak. My AFR readings have stabilized much more now, it still cycles between 14.7-15.2 at idle but less often, not like before where it was cycling a few times per second. So I think the gauge could also be used in a sense to detect if you have leaks! Also I noticed a lot more torque in 5th gear and just better response overall.
     

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  15. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Alright. Oh boy. So... That compound metal glue holds like a champ, from now on I'm just gonna use that and forget about welding :nono: All the turbo piping and gaskets are now air tight and leak free!

    HOWEVER, apparently there's an even bigger issue which I need to continue diagnosing, and I'd appreciate if whoever is reading can share some ideas. Basically, I pressurize the system to 14.7 psi. It now bleeds down slower, but it still bleeds down more than it should. Took 1 minute for it to go from 14.7 to 7.2 psi (I'm using 1 bar and 0.5 bar as reference). I also tried to set the engine to 30 degrees after top dead center as others have suggested in other threads, to make sure there's no valve overlap and that all intake valves would be closed. Here's an old picture that I made some lines on to illustrate how I set it. I first turned the crank to line up both camgears to TDC, then move it another 30 degrees so that the blue line lined up with the red line on the cover.
    WP_20170610_12_51_15_Pro.jpg

    I opened up the oil cap and could hear air whistling from within. I then plugged the PCV hose going from the cover to the intake snorkel, and unplugged the PCV valve itself, and plugged its hose too. Now, the air was trying to escape both from the dipstick, the PCV valve and the oil cap. But in other cases, I have never had the dipstick pop out on me.

    So, this means that boost pressure is making its way into the crankcase and leaking out from there. Now, what are the possible ways for the air to go that way? The ones I could think of are these:
    1. If we assume all intake valves are properly closed, some valves might now be seating properly and leaking air from the seats. I did the lapping myself and as far as I checked, they didn't leak, but this is now questionable.
    2. If we assume the intake valves DO NOT leak, that means the air is going up through the valve guides (if they are bad).
    3. If the valve guides are bad, air would leak up through them, and potentially leak through the stem seals too (they've got 15k miles on them).
    4. Alternatively, the valve guides could be good, but the stem seals might also be bad, leaking air through them too.
    5. It is possible to have air leaking when doing a static boost leak test through the journal bearings on the turbo. I rebuilt it recently, less than 200 miles ago, so air could be making its way past the stationary seals and into the oil pan/crank case. If this IS the case, how much air leakage would be normal as to rule out the other scenarios?
    6. Potentially a head gasket leaking near a water or oil passage? This doesn't seem as likely to me, as it's a good quality headgasket and I followed manual torque procedures. But still a possibility?
    7. And lastly, IF air is somehow getting into the cylinders while all the valves are closed (or leaking), the piston rings could be letting air past them and into the crankcase, essentially blowby. The rings are new, good quality Hastings EVO 8 rings, and the honing on the block was still very clear and visible. IF I was getting blowby from leaky rings, my oil would get contaminated, wouldn't it? I check it very regularly and I do not see any irregularities or gasoline smells.
    I don't think there are any other ways for boost air to make its way into the crankcase, but if I've missed something, feel free to add it here. I will be doing a cold compression test across all 4 cylinders tomorrow or these days, as I haven't actually done that yet, oddly enough. I'm really hoping it wont be the rings or valves, but even if it's just valve stem seals or guides, it means taking the head off and redoing it :(
     

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  16. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I wouldn't worry about it if it's taking a minute to drop down to 7 psi. You can't have all the intake valves all closed at the same time. What are your compression numbers? Do you have to add oil between oil changes?
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
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  17. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    2,884
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    The crank pulley/harmonic balancer looks old. I'd replace that in the near future. Mine came apart last year and took out my new timing belt, timing cover and jumped timing. Got really hot too since it wasn't rotating the water pump.
     

    353  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    376  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  18. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    431
    252
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    The photo I used was way old, the balancer and cover have since been changed, don't worry. I just couldn't find a better picture to illustrate it on.

    As far as oil, I;ve never had to add oil. It's always very clear and nice, no extra fumes or anything. It's been almost a year since the rebuild but I've done less than 6k miles, so the next oil change will be from the 1 year period, as that comes first.

    I haven't done a compression test yet. Possibly tomorrow or the following days since I'm relying on a friend to lend his to me.

    EDIT: After reading some older posts about leaks, I came to the conclusion that an easy way to check if the air is actually leaking past the turbo seals or not, is to run the tester from the throttle body elbow, essentially bypassing the turbo, intercooler and piping. I will do that next time first thing. If no more air leaks from the valve cover, then it was simply the seals. But if I still get air leaking from the crankcase, then it must be one of the things I mentioned above, which would suck, because it would mean HEAD OFF :nono:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020

    Street Build 3K  12

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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