Lowering engine

[arrowhead]

I just dont see any way to drop. At most u could get a 1/8 inch and thats iffy at best. And not worth doing unless u were to move the engine and trans foward then tilte the back of the engine up. But then you are moving the heavy mass foward of axels center line makeing the car more nose heavy. And your mounts dont let u piviot the engine and trans like the srt mounts. So its just not worth doing.

No, I will not move the engine forward for the same reason you mentioned, I would like to move it back some but never forward.

Thanks

 

[NWHTanK]

Well even to move the engine abd trans back is still limted to the suspension cradel the transmission diff will make contac with the suspension cradel. Its tight as it is.

 

[greengoblin]

No offense but I dont think that will work out either given the eclipse mount desighn. Thats why I stuck with the srt mounts. The eclipse mounts point in the wrong direction as to get tilt and if he is using soild insert will give him less movent. When I decided to do the srt swap I chose to use the srt mounts so that I could have more adjustability over the eclipse mounts and it also got rid of the cross bar from suspension cradel to lower radiotor support. The amount of drop he can get is not worth it.

I'm pretty sure he is not going to use anything OEM or off the shelf if he does this. He talking about one off engine mounts and custom crossmembers and cradles . If he does this he could put the engine more or less where he wants it and everything else will be built around the engine postion.

Kevin

 

[arrowhead]

My only $.02 on this so far is this: given the importance of axle angles and no suggestion (so far) that this will be an AWD, consider rolling the engine a bit as you lower, to tuck the heaviest (lower) bits closer to the firewall than the head, because this will also raise the inboard ends of the axles.

Thanks jt for looking this up.

How about giving me a nickel instead of $.02.
The car is FWD and have no plans now for converting to AWD.
I have been looking at this for a long time and so far to me at least, it looks doable even if there is some work involved.
I have thrown this out there to get as much feedback as I could, since most every body have more knowledge than I do on these cars.

Thanks

 

[NWHTanK]

I'm pretty sure he is not going to use anything OEM or off the shelf if he does this. He talking about one off engine mounts and custom crossmembers and cradles . If he does this he could put the engine more or less where he wants it and everything else will be built around the engine postion.

Kevin

Well that were is heading stock wont work. Custom mounts, costomized or custom suspension cross member,then the cross member from suspension crossmber to lower rad support customize,custom or delete as I did with my swap.

 

[arrowhead]

No offense but I dont think that will work out either given the eclipse mount desighn. Thats why I stuck with the srt mounts. The eclipse mounts point in the wrong direction as to get tilt and if he is using soild insert will give him less movent. When I decided to do the srt swap I chose to use the srt mounts so that I could have more adjustability over the eclipse mounts and it also got rid of the cross bar from suspension cradel to lower radiotor support. The amount of drop he can get is not worth it.

The design of the mounts do not bother me much, I mentioned the mounts would be solid and probably will have to be fabricated and dont think I am going to use any of the originals.

I am not trying to sound hard headed, I am trying only to get ideas and input.

Thank you

 

[NWHTanK]

Exhuast,a/c lines bent or removed, power stearing lines? Throtle cable and trans cables should be fine with a inch back movment. Its the things that have little or no movement that u will also have to worry about.

 

[NWHTanK]

The design of the mounts do not bother me much, I mentioned the mounts would be solid and probably will have to be fabricated and dont think I am going to use any of the originals.

I am not trying to sound hard headed, I am trying only to get ideas and input.

Thank you

NP. Im just giving u some ideas on what to expect seeing how I had to put a engine and trans in that wasnt desighned to go into a eclipse. I had figure out how to do this on my own since know one documeted it. So good luck if u are going thru with it and do a write up on it.

 

[arrowhead]

Well that were is heading stock wont work. Custom mounts, costomized or custom suspension cross member,then the cross member from suspension crossmber to lower rad support customize,custom or delete as I did with my swap.

Practically nothing will be left stock on this car.
We have rolled engines in other cars, thinking in particular of a 914 we did before.
The front crossmember is gone already.

But were you able to do it?, please expand.

Thanking you again for your input and time.

NP. Im just giving u some ideas on what to expect seeing how I had to put a engine and trans in that wasnt desighned to go into a eclipse. I had figure out how to do this on my own since know one documeted it. So good luck if u are going thru with it and do a write up on it.

Dont know if you have seen my journal under road racing, please take a look at it,
I like thinking out the box pretty much, I still think there are a lot of things that could be changed on these cars, specially suspension and brakes, aero and motor is mainly the reason I went with this platform.

98 tsi road racer

Thanks again

 

[NWHTanK]

Check out the build journels my build is in thier. I dont think the srt or even neon mounts will work but i could be wrong. It will show what I had to do and shows the srt mounts look like and how i got them to work in the eclipse and they diffrent. The srt has no center support brace. They put a brace to the strut tower to the top of the engine and brace at lower suspension to the lower part of the engine. Which i havent fabed up yet. So the bottom of the engine and trans area is wide open.

 

[arrowhead]

Check out the build journels my build is in thier. I dont think the srt or even neon mounts will work but i could be wrong. It will show what I had to do and shows the srt mounts look like and how i got them to work in the eclipse and they diffrent. The srt has no center support brace. They put a brace to the strut tower to the top of the engine and brace at lower suspension to the lower part of the engine. Which i havent fabed up yet. So the bottom of the engine and trans area is wide open.

Be happy to look it up what is it under.

Thanks

 

[NWHTanK]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/405716-99-gs-srt4-engine-swap.html

Here u go.Its my version of a srt4 transplant and is still under the knife. U will see that the mounts used, make the engine like a rotisserie and that the upper brace allows me ajust tilt along with the bottom,which I havent fabed up yet. I am thinking about modifing a gsx suspenion crossmember becuase it has a bigger opening for a drive shaft that will allow for the srt exauhst to pass thru but I might have to trim the left side for trans clearance.The bottom brace will go from the ac compresor area to right front lower control arm bolt.

 

[arrowhead]

Exhuast,a/c lines bent or removed, power stearing lines? Throtle cable and trans cables should be fine with a inch back movment. Its the things that have little or no movement that u will also have to worry about.

I am allowed to bring the exhaust up and have it come out somewhere as long as it is behind the driver. will probably move it to pass. side behind door.

There will be no A/C, no P/S, no part of the car can be any lower than the 3 in. measured at the side of body.

Again thank you.

 

[greengoblin]

What series are you building the car to race in anyway and what class?

Kevin

 

[arrowhead]

What series are you building the car to race in anyway and what class?

Kevin

HI Kevin
Glad you asked this question as maybe other people can check this out and have a better understanding once you go to RR.

Mostly for FARAUSA, this is mostly a local club but as you will see in the videos, there are many good cars, we race mostly at Homestead and use the 2 courses one being the short course which does not include the banks and the long course which does include turns 3 and 4 and the infield, this year we are planning to also race at PBIR, and Sebring.

Take a look at the rules and you will see they are very simple, pretty much open except by engine size and safety.
There is a lot of hard racing and cars come from just about anywhere.
My car will fall in the MP2B and you can get an idea by the class brake and engine sizes this is a very hard class.
I am going by SCCA GCR to build the car and in here the car would fall in STO, except the weights are extremely heavy for our cars, talking to SCCA.
If I run SCCA I will not add all of that weight and if they place me in another class it will be OK with me.
If I find the car is not competitive in this class (FARAS) I will build a 2.4 combo and drop to MP3 which is where my son races his mustang w/ a 2.3, this class is very competitive and has the largest field at all the races.

Look at the videos I am sure you will enjoy them.

Thanks

Maybe you will like to come down and try it.

 

[NWHTanK]

Oh cool. Some more reading mabe I can get some ideas.Looked liked greengoblin knew what u were going for. Best of luck and keep us updated.

 

[arrowhead]

What series are you building the car to race in anyway and what class?

Kevin

Did you get a chance to look at the videos and class rules?

Any comments or suggestion.

What do you think of the small 16 I have, do you think that will cut it?

 

[snowborder714]

I checked out the video on the homepage. Looks like fun!

As for the small 16g, there's a couple things to keep in mind.

1. Is the car currently setup for it? If so, and it was me, I'd just run it for now. Get a sense of how the car responds with the body mods and everything else. It will spool pretty darn quick, but you'll be limited to about 300hp.

2. If you try pushing it above 20-22psi, you'll most likely just be blowing a lot of hot air. This thing will heat up your engine bay in a hurry.

3. The courses don't look too tight, so you might benefit from a bit larger (or more powerful) turbo to take advantage of the longer straights. The small 16g gets you up and going, but then starts to kind of fall off in the higher RPM's.


I've run my small 16g on a couple autox courses and it's great since they're tight configurations. I have had it on one road track (Summit Point) and it wasn't bad, but not great. It heated up the engine bay, didn't really pull to redline, but got me up and going from tight turns pretty quickly. If I knew left foot braking and got into the gas earlier with a larger turbo, the last point would be moot.

There's both pros and cons to it. If you want something that'll flow a bit more but still spool around the same RPM, look at the FP 68HTA. I'll be switching to a twin scroll HX35 setup after some more time on the small 16g. I will lose a bit of spool (hoping to go from ~3500 RPM to ~3800 RPM) but will gain a good bit of flow on the top end (going from ~38-40 lbs/min to hopefully ~60 lbs/min when maxed out).

 

[arrowhead]

I checked out the video on the homepage. Looks like fun!

As for the small 16g, there's a couple things to keep in mind.

1. Is the car currently setup for it? If so, and it was me, I'd just run it for now. Get a sense of how the car responds with the body mods and everything else. It will spool pretty darn quick, but you'll be limited to about 300hp.

2. If you try pushing it above 20-22psi, you'll most likely just be blowing a lot of hot air. This thing will heat up your engine bay in a hurry.

3. The courses don't look too tight, so you might benefit from a bit larger (or more powerful) turbo to take advantage of the longer straights. The small 16g gets you up and going, but then starts to kind of fall off in the higher RPM's.


I've run my small 16g on a couple autox courses and it's great since they're tight configurations. I have had it on one road track (Summit Point) and it wasn't bad, but not great. It heated up the engine bay, didn't really pull to redline, but got me up and going from tight turns pretty quickly. If I knew left foot braking and got into the gas earlier with a larger turbo, the last point would be moot.

There's both pros and cons to it. If you want something that'll flow a bit more but still spool around the same RPM, look at the FP 68HTA. I'll be switching to a twin scroll HX35 setup after some more time on the small 16g. I will lose a bit of spool (hoping to go from ~3500 RPM to ~3800 RPM) but will gain a good bit of flow on the top end (going from ~38-40 lbs/min to hopefully ~60 lbs/min when maxed out).

Thats my plan for now, keeping the s 16g, then latter if needed I was thinking of an evo16, the motor came with this unit, the motor will be built beyond capacity for the s16 from what I have read so far, maybe I could use both one for short course, the other for the long one.
I am a little skeptical if these engines will last on enduro races w/ that big a turbo sometimes we run 3 hr enduros.
I have always done well w/ temp control, rad, trans, brakes, etc.
This is new to me w/ the turbo, but I have a couple of things in mind to try to control the heat as much as I can.
The engine will be the last thing I do, after bodywork, suspension, and brakes, also that will give me more time to learn about this engines and getting goodies
for it.
Never driven a FWD in comp. but done LFB and heel/toe, it is not hard to learn,
I have noticed some mods will have to be done to the pedals to do that same thing.
Thanks

 

[snowborder714]

I don't find heel/toe too bad with the pedals in stock config, but then again I've never driven a car with a nice pedal setup. I did just get to drive a BMW X5 the other day which had a floor mounted gas pedal and man, is that much nicer! Got me wanting to convert my pedals.

Left foot braking is on my list of stuff to try next time I'm out at a track. I've been doing some during the week in my rental car

 

[jtmcinder]

I also found the OE pedals on a 2G to be pretty well placed for both heel/toe and LFBing. In contrast, the pedal set-up in an Evo X is horrendous. I'm actually creating a totally weird gear-shift-mounted throttle-blipper, it's so bad.

 

[arrowhead]

I also found the OE pedals on a 2G to be pretty well placed for both heel/toe and LFBing. In contrast, the pedal set-up in an Evo X is horrendous. I'm actually creating a totally weird gear-shift-mounted throttle-blipper, it's so bad.

Wow is it that bad?

By glancing at the pedals on the 2g, I think the brake and clutch pedals are too close to each other.
I would bend the clutch pedal to the left and weld a pad going left and down, on the brake pedal, weld then a bigger pad. as the stock ones are kind of small.

O f course all of this depends what feels more comfortable to each person.
I am sure you have given your mod on the gear shift a lot of though, but braking, down shifting, turning all at the same time for me is more than enough and you are adding another variant to all of this, man thats a lot to do.

I personally like doing a roll w/ my right foot than H/T.

 

[GRNDSM]

First of all, I applaud you for looking for some new and innovative ways to improve your car!

Here is how I would approach this: first take some corner weight measurements (which suck on a front heavy DSMs ). Then shift the weight of the engine around to see the difference that it makes (this should be easy to do with Excell spreadsheet).

When I mounted the 4G63 engine inside of my TR7, I used the same basic idea sticking it as far back and as low, as excising sheetmetal would allow me.

My gut instinct tells me that you will not be able move the engine enough to make a noticeable difference, but I have been wrong before .

 

[jtmcinder]

New crazy thought: if you're going to go through all this hassle, why not build the new subframe for a 4B11, instead of a 4G63? It's lighter and as time goes by, there'll be more and more support for 4B11s.

Or am I now going to get kicked off this site for suggesting this?

 

[greengoblin]

I have been considering doing just that.........