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Low head oil pressure? Lifters will not stop ticking.

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EagleTalonTim

15+ Year Contributor
833
13
Jan 10, 2007
Brighton, Tennessee
Ok, here we go... Another oil pressure issue....

Almost 2 years ago, I rebuilt my engine and put in new rods, new pistons, new bearings, and everything new in the head. This was a recover from a stripped timing belt. After getting everything back together and the oil primed properly, I started the car. All was quiet for about 3 months until a lifter collapsed and I replaced the bad one with a new one. Ticking went away for about a year and started to come back slowly. I eventually installed an aftermarket oil pressure gauge and to my surprise, I was running 100+ psi oil pressure @ 4k RPM at the filter housing! (Balance shafts were removed before rebuilding engine, but never checked actual oil pressure) Thinking it was because of my MLS headgasket and me not doing the oil port mod on the head, I pulled the head, and did the oil port mod. Since this was a 6 bolt head, I figured I would not need to drill the hole any larger where the ARP head stud went through, but I did grind off the little lip that was in there around the oil passage. All this did not help the oil pressure or any lifter tick, so I did the oil filter housing mod and eventually had to clip the spring. Oil pressure in the bottom end is now 20 psi at idle, and 80 psi at 7000 RPM. With the new oil pressure setting where it was supposed to be, I drove her for another 8 months until here recently, I had a lifter completely collapse (not in the same place as the last one). So I put in some 2G lifters I bought a few years ago after cleaning them in kerosene and priming them in oil overnight. All the lifters held pressure just fine and did not bleed down at all while squeezing them with my hand as hard as I could. Once I hit the check valve in them, they had a smooth bleed down.

It seems no matter what I do, I still have a lifter tick issue and eventually a collapsed / failed lifter :( Nothing in the head is heat damaged and everything is nice, clean and oily still. I just bought another oil pressure gauge to install and keep tabs on the head oil pressure. It has not come in yet, so I must wait.... One thing I have noticed is if I have the VC off and spin the motor over with the starter, the very tiny pin holes at the end of the lifter rails on the head only seep out oil....a very tiny amount. I though they were supposed to spray with pretty good force!

While I am waiting, is there anything else that I can check or change to get these fresh lifters to stop ticking?
 
Been over a day and no response yet :( I did think about one thing I could try, but am not sure I should attempt it....

Would replacing the ARP head stud that passes through the head oil supply hole with a stock head bolt be a way to test if that is a restriction point? Can the car be run safely with the one stock head bolt and all the others ARP head studs? I just want to track down my issue before tearing into my car unsure of what I need to fix or modify.
 
Ok, here we go... Another oil pressure issue....

Almost 2 years ago, I rebuilt my engine and put in new rods, new pistons, new bearings, and everything new in the head. This was a recover from a stripped timing belt. After getting everything back together and the oil primed properly, I started the car. All was quiet for about 3 months until a lifter collapsed and I replaced the bad one with a new one. Ticking went away for about a year and started to come back slowly. I eventually installed an aftermarket oil pressure gauge and to my surprise, I was running 100+ psi oil pressure @ 4k RPM at the filter housing! (Balance shafts were removed before rebuilding engine, but never checked actual oil pressure) Thinking it was because of my MLS headgasket and me not doing the oil port mod on the head, I pulled the head, and did the oil port mod. Since this was a 6 bolt head, I figured I would not need to drill the hole any larger where the ARP head stud went through, but I did grind off the little lip that was in there around the oil passage. All this did not help the oil pressure or any lifter tick, so I did the oil filter housing mod and eventually had to clip the spring. Oil pressure in the bottom end is now 20 psi at idle, and 80 psi at 7000 RPM. With the new oil pressure setting where it was supposed to be, I drove her for another 8 months until here recently, I had a lifter completely collapse (not in the same place as the last one). So I put in some 2G lifters I bought a few years ago after cleaning them in kerosene and priming them in oil overnight. All the lifters held pressure just fine and did not bleed down at all while squeezing them with my hand as hard as I could. Once I hit the check valve in them, they had a smooth bleed down.

It seems no matter what I do, I still have a lifter tick issue and eventually a collapsed / failed lifter :( Nothing in the head is heat damaged and everything is nice, clean and oily still. I just bought another oil pressure gauge to install and keep tabs on the head oil pressure. It has not come in yet, so I must wait.... One thing I have noticed is if I have the VC off and spin the motor over with the starter, the very tiny pin holes at the end of the lifter rails on the head only seep out oil....a very tiny amount. I though they were supposed to spray with pretty good force!

While I am waiting, is there anything else that I can check or change to get these fresh lifters to stop ticking?

I would wait till you get some pressure readings from the head then report back here so people will be more inclined to help you. :thumb: Maybe switch to feeding your turbo from the ofh if you haven't?
I would recommend EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts but would hate for you to break them because there is a oiling issue or something.
 
Right now, the turbo is feeding from the head because the last turbo blew due to high oil pressure at the OFH. The oil pressure is fixed in the bottom end, so I feel safer re-installing the turbo oil feed line to the OFH. I will probably do that tomorrow since the new gauge will tap into the turbo feed in the head.
 
Right now, the turbo is feeding from the head because the last turbo blew due to high oil pressure at the OFH. The oil pressure is fixed in the bottom end, so I feel safer re-installing the turbo oil feed line to the OFH. I will probably do that tomorrow since the new gauge will tap into the turbo feed in the head.

Hopefully that will solve your issue. :thumb:
 
Sealing the turbo feed in the head would increase pressure, but I am not sure it would fix everything. Now.... I have to find that little bolt that seals the head oil feed.... Don't want bugs crawling in there while I wait for my gauge stuff to come in.
 
Finally got the oil pressure gauge installed to see oil pressure at the head. The pressure is read at the turbo oil feed port. My turbo oil is coming from the OFH. Here we go...

Cold start (idling): head oil pressure is ~10 psi and the bottom end oil pressure is ~40 psi
Engine fully warmed up (idling) : 2 to 4 psi head oil pressure, 18 to 20 psi bottom end oil pressure.
Hammering on it for about 10 minutes off an on then returning to idle : Head = 0 to 1 psi, bottom end = 16 to 20 psi.
7000 rpm : Head = 18 to 20 psi, bottom end = 75 to 80 psi
3000 rpm : Head = ~10 psi, bottom end = ~35 psi
2000 rpm : Head = 6 to 8 psi, bottom end = ~25 psi

Any ideas on what I should do now? I can replace the one ARP head stud with a stock head bolt just to see if it changes anything if needed. Not sure it is wise to do. I have even read where people have ground down the base of the ARP stud a little to help get oil around it better. I would rather not do this, but if it is still stronger than a stock head bolt, I can give that a shot as well.
 
Oil pump was brand new OEM when motor was rebuilt and has about 30K miles on it. 2 years of driving 40 miles one way to work.... puts a bunch of miles on this thing for sure! If oil pump was out, would that not make the bottom end pressure low as well? I have had to clip the spring to bring the oil pressure down from 100+ psi at 4K RPM. I have done both oil port mods.

Looking at getting this : STM: KIGGLY RACING 4G63 HLA PRESSURE REGULATOR | 90-99 DSM & EVO VIII-IX

Maybe it would help?
 
did u check the stock hla plate ,to see if there was and issue there .had a friend who forgot to tighten the 3 bolts there and had massive lifter tick and low oil pressure . just an idea .
 
Yes, I was running 1G lifters. I am now running 2G lifters.

Upon further testing, the oil pressure in the head goes to 0 at idle after driving for more than 30 minutes. I have checked the oil flow in the head by removing the oil fill cap and watching the cam lobes being oiled through the rockers. The flow is good enough to fling a little oil out of the cap hole when I rev the engine a little. So... I have flow, but no pressure. Any ideas on how to increase the pressure?
 
With oil port mod 1 done, you should have the flow you need.

Why you do not have decent pressure, I can not say.

The oil system is simple on a 4g.

You have the main oil galley that feeds the mains, then a vertical oil galley up to the head.

The only real idea on why the oil pressure is low to the head is there is a partial clog at the end of the main oil galley or in the vertical oil galley.

Are you sure that both front BS bearings were flipped to block the oil feed to the front BS?
 
Yes, both bearings were flipped when I did the BS elimination. I remember this since I had to borrow a bearing remover tool from a friend for the center front bearing. The next thing I am going to try is to replace the front head bolt with a stock one to see if that changes anything. Will probably do that this weekend. Next step would be the Kiggly HLA regulator. After that, pull the motor and start going though it :p


Also, my block was cleaned at the machine shop who did my machining when I built this motor. I can't remember what the cleaning type is called, but that block was #### and span when I got it back!
 
The Kiggley Reg will not increase oil pressure in the head.

It seems you have an oil pressure issue before the oil gets to the head.

Being a 93, you should have the 6 bolt with 12mm head studs, the only way swapping the bolt may help is if you have the 1g 7 bolt head.

The 1g 7 bolt head looks like the 1g 6 bolt, but has the smaller head bolt holes of the 7 bolt, 11mm.

But if that was the case, when the studs were installed and you slipped the head over them, it would have been a snug/tight fit to get it down.

Where are you taking the head oil pressure readings? The back of the head?

Now when you did the front BSE bearing flip, were the bores damaged? spun or beat out the bearing?

My suggestion on the next step would be to drop the oil pan and pull the front case.

And look down the main oil galley, and grab a long gun brush and run it down there and see if you find any goop at the end of the galley.

**Edit**
Also if you go ahead with pulling that stud to replace with the factory bolt, have a 1/2 drill bit handy.

If the drill bit slips in the hole, then the bolt will solve nothing.
If the drill bit will not go in, then go on with the bolt swap.
 
The head is for sure a 6 bolt head since the APR's fit in the holes just fine. I am really worried about having to pull half my motor apart just to check it for gunk.

The oil pressure gauge is connected at the stock turbo oil feed port. The turbo is being fed from the OFH right now.
 
The Kiggley Reg will not increase oil pressure in the head.

It seems you have an oil pressure issue before the oil gets to the head.

Being a 93, you should have the 6 bolt with 12mm head studs, the only way swapping the bolt may help is if you have the 1g 7 bolt head.

The 1g 7 bolt head looks like the 1g 6 bolt, but has the smaller head bolt holes of the 7 bolt, 11mm.

But if that was the case, when the studs were installed and you slipped the head over them, it would have been a snug/tight fit to get it down.

Where are you taking the head oil pressure readings? The back of the head?

Now when you did the front BSE bearing flip, were the bores damaged? spun or beat out the bearing?

My suggestion on the next step would be to drop the oil pan and pull the front case.

And look down the main oil galley, and grab a long gun brush and run it down there and see if you find any goop at the end of the galley.

**Edit**
Also if you go ahead with pulling that stud to replace with the factory bolt, have a 1/2 drill bit handy.

If the drill bit slips in the hole, then the bolt will solve nothing.
If the drill bit will not go in, then go on with the bolt swap.

Great response Dale! This is exactly what I was thinking as well.

To the OP when you had the timing belt failure did you repair original head or did you source a new/used head?
 
It is a new head. Had the head milled for MLS and all the new valves seated and installed. Nothing else was done to the head.

If I am not mistaken, I have read that the stock HLA regulator dumps off extra oil once a certain pressure is reached. I believe this is done by port sizes and clearances inside the HLA regulator. By blocking part of the "dump" port, I would figure this would in turn increase head oil pressure which I believe the kiggly HLA regulator does.


Ok, I am wrong, I can't find a "dump" port on the stock HLA regulator or anywhere on the head. There seems to be 4 oil ports on the HLA regulator. One is the incoming oil from the block, 2 are the HLA rails, and one is the turbo oil feed. Not really much that can be changed there.
 
You know the last post was in 2014! And Tim has not been back on since 2019! Doubtful its getting a reply LOL
 
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