Lots of Parts doesn't = Lots of HP

[13secGST]

Ok guys...thought I'd let you see my Dyno graph...and show newbies that just because they put all the parts on their car, it doesn't mean that it will be fast and have lots of HP.

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Sorry its so light but just look closer you can see everything.

Now there were also many things wrong with my car at this time.

1. Exhaust leak between Manifold and Head (missing stud for #4cyl)

2. Exhaust leak between Manifold and Turbo (6cm gasket with ported big16g...well its destroyed and 7cm is on the way)

3. Only on bolt was hold on the test pipe to the Catback...that is a story because I just got the RnR downpipe and had the catback cut and modified so it didn't neck down to fit stock cat...well the people who welded on the flange rotated it so it wouldn't bolt up...now its fixed though)

4. Runing 17psi and didn't datalog till after the dyno...found out that timing would drop to -2 degrees and only climb to a high of 8...after dropping the psi to 12 timing dropped to 3 and climbed to 12 and there was NO power difference between the 17-12 psi because the difference in timing was enough to compensate...now it boosts at 13.5 and timing still drops to 3 but climbs to 13...however boost does creep all the way to 20psi in high end...but that will be fixed this week as well.

5. I'm running stock injectors and NO tunning system...this is my BIGGEST problem...



This Tuesday Mike at DSS will have the car he is going to fix an oil leak for me, port the Manifold and fix the exhaust leaks caused by the manifold, port the wastegate opening more so no more boost creep problem, install 660cc injectors.

And my 95Eprom ECU will be sent off to DSMLink on Tuesday so hopefully I will have that by the end of the week as well and my problems will be fixed.

Estimated HP after messing with the logger and gaining more timing is about 245-250 whp.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

well stock injectors are only good for about 250 to the wheels, u could have the biggest turbo on the market and all the parts in the world and u still can only get 250whp out of stock 450cc injectors
after u fix all the problems and get bigger injectors(and better fuel to help with knock would be a good idea) u should be able to see 300whp

 

[13secGST]

I know...thats what I'm hopeing, the main purpose of this thread is to inform everybody who thinks that just slapping parts on a car is gonna get you HP...when in fact it requires much more...even by getting the injectors I wont gain much hp without tunning...

Tunning is EVERYTHING.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

yes, tuning is everything, with a dsmlink to tune those injectors u should be able to get 300 out of your set up, if u can keep the knock count down so ur timing doesnt get retarded by the ecu that is, then u can turn the boost up and see some real power

 

[Antilles]

It is possible to make well over 300whp with stock injectors.

I take it all of these pulls were on pump gas?

 

[13secGST]

Really damn I didn't think you could make much power on race gas with 450s. But I don't even care to try.

Yes everything was done on good ol' California 91 oct. @ 17psi creeping to 20 and timing dropping to -2degrees advancing to 8 by 7200rpms and O2 voltage at 1.00 and injectors running 100% duty cycle. Not exactly the best time to dyno my car...

but hey it was 35bucks.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

maybe if u had a fuel pump, a fuel tuning tool, an AFPR, and ran 119 octane leaded race gas u might be able to pull 300whp out of stock injectors, but its doubtful
u cartainly cant make anywhre near 300whp on pump gas, which is what he is running and what we are talking about, on 91 its probally closer to 240whp, most pump gas statistics are based on 93 octane

 

[Antilles]

190 fuel pump, no tuning devices, no AFPR, 110 race gas, 22psi on a 16G.

I know people who have done it with less.

No idea on what can be made with them on pump gas.

 

[dsm]

im pumped out 278whp on stock injectors, pump gas

 

[13secGST]

you have 94 octane...I have 91...big difference.

 

[13secGST]

but...I'm tunning today...so I'll let you know what DSMLink says I'm putting down.

 

[loreak]

i know how u feel, first time to the track on the 20g i ran a 99 trap, i was like !

i think my problem is my 1g bov, i ran 103 trap on 18psi and i turned it up to 20 and then it was hitting 99-100 traps, no knock either, probably just leaking bad

 

[98eclipseRS]

Hey eric what's up, don't know if you remember my sn but i was at the sac meet with the white 92tsi awd. I see you said you are tunning with dsmlink let us know how that goes, cuase at the meet you were talking about waiting for that and then you would see what you could put down, regardless those are still some pretty respectable numbers almost 240 whp isnt bad at all. Anyway let us know how the tunning goes. later.
-zach-

Oh ya what ended up being your best run at sac. I had to leave early and only saw you do your first run.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by loreak
i know how u feel, first time to the track on the 20g i ran a 99 trap, i was like !

i think my problem is my 1g bov, i ran 103 trap on 18psi and i turned it up to 20 and then it was hitting 99-100 traps, no knock either, probably just leaking bad

No. The problem is, you do not know what you are doing.

I know of several people who have trapped at over 120 on race gas, and over 110 on pump gas with 20g's and regular 1g BOV's.

Mine holds to 25 psi.


....Kyle T.

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by kpt4321



No. The problem is, you do not know what you are doing.

I know of several people who have trapped at over 120 on race gas, and over 110 on pump gas with 20g's and regular 1g BOV's.

Mine holds to 25 psi.


....Kyle T.

Or he didn't know that it was leaking until he turned the boost up jackass. Not all 1g bovs hold the same amount of boost uncrushed. Pressure testing them I've seen some stock ones hold 22psi fine while others opened up at 17psi.
Trap speed and boost pressure do not make a direct corelation to each other. What the hell does your friends trapping at 110 with 20gs have to do with a persons BOV leaking?
And why in the hell are they only at 110mph with 20Gs? That's 16g power right there, LAME.

You can make over 300hp on 450s, it's called higher base pressure. You can up the base pressure enough to make 450s the equivlant of 510cc (rated at 43psi) using a higher base pressure, while not having the pressure to high at 20psi of boost.

Latest DSM trend, tons of parts, no power.

On another note Mike does great porting, I had him do some stuff a couple years ago and was very happy with it. Good luck and I hope you can get the car dialed in better with the correct amount of fuel.

 

[dsm]

Originally posted by 13secGST
you have 94 octane...I have 91...big difference.

i was on 93 not 94. not a big diff between 91 and 93, diff yes but not big.

 

[13secGST]

Ok its tuned...kinda...I think I'm gonna have Mike help me with it...but basically it runs MUCH better now...and I'm not exactly sure how much HP I'm making...but I don't think I should trust the DSMLink HP calculator...it seems a bit high.

Now, what me and my friend found while tunning, is that my car likes higher boost and I think its because of the front mount.

Right now the car is tuned at 19psi, and it spikes to 25 but comes down pretty quick. O2voltage is at .90, EGT's are 1600, Timing is still pretty crappy, with it dropping to 0.1degrees and advancing to 14 by 7000 and 16 by 7500 so its not too bad...I'm gonna try and tune more tomorrow and maybe try for a little more timing...but when I was messing with it before any more timing and I'd knock...so I don't know. But I'll try. I may also try tunning at 18psi and seeing if I can get more timing there with out knock.

Ohh and there is hardly any knock right now...only 1 degree retard that lasts for a couple hundred rpms.

Air Flow lbs. per minute were about 30 so we are guessing I'm making about 300hp now...thats what Mike told me to go by, and DSMLink says peek of 341 @ 5600.

It just doesn't look right to me, the HP graph raises and drops way to much...I think I'll go by how much air flows into the engine.

 

[13secGST]

Ohh and 98EclipseRS...yeh I remember you...I think...there where two white 1gs besides Chris...or where there 3. Anyway I think I remember which guy you are. Are you gonna come to the AutoX in Marina...I'll have DSMLink and I'll be showing it to people up there...I guess...besides being racing. You should come...a bunch of DSM guys are saying they are going...so even if you don't want to race you should come and hang out.

 

[98eclipseRS]

haha ya there was me chris and dwnshft, I was the one with the car that didn't want to start so i had to leave it on the whole tiem we sat in that dirt lot. As for the autox i am going to try and make it but i work, I am trying to get someone to cover me though so we will se if I am able to make it. I am also trying to work out some problems I am having with my car at the moment so that might keep me from comming also. So hopefully i will be able to make it to the autox. good luck with the rest of your tunning. later.
-zach-

 

[custom240sx]

Why do you think you can only get 250 with 450's. I already have 280 with no fuel injector upgrades.

 

[13secGST]

again...you are an east coast guy who has either 93-94 octane gas...and yes 93-94 is MUCH better than cali piss 91...2 Octane numbers makes a noticable difference. If I was on higher octane gas I'd run more boost and get more timing...but I'm not

anyway...like I said the car is now around 300hp not whp but it's probably like 270 or so. With more tunning and replacing my still stock intake pipe and 2g TB and a couple other restrictive parts, I think I could gain 10-20hp, and then be able to gain some timing as well...so, we'll see. But I'm gonna do some more datalogging today and maybe a little tuning...then I'll eventually get to a dyno and show you guys what I put down...

 

[Violater101]

Don't go buy the DSM Link HP #. It's no where close from what I have found. It's just calculating it based on a formula I believe. As for your timing, you need to be getting more than 16. You should be shooting for around 20 atleast imo. 16 is only .3 over stock peak timing which is at around 6500 I believe. What are your coolant and intake temps like? The car will pull timing if those are 2 high, but it won't show up as knock. Just my 2 cents.

 

[13secGST]

coolant temps normally sit around 220 (which I think is high) I'm gonna try flushing the coolant system and putting a new higher pressure cap on and a lower temp thermostat, but at 220 the stock gauge reads fine..actually a little under the middle.

And intake temps, I'll have to check, but the recorded temps are at the MAS, I have an intake temp gauge with the probe in the throtle body elbow...its normally around 10degrees above ambient to ambient dependent on speed, and durring my datalogging would read as high as 100 when just starting after sitting for a while and tunning but once I got going they would drop to about 80-85