1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Just installed an FP HTA RED, holy sh**e!

Posted by kchaazz, Apr 19, 2015

Please Support ExtremePSI
Please Support Morrison Fabrication
  1. CrackedDSM

    CrackedDSM Proven Member

    1,589
    316
    Joined Dec 17, 2009
    Roanoke, Virginia
    He was fun to work around for sure. He's a trip for sure.
     

    169  3

    2015 Ford Edge Sport
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 4K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  2. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    You're seeing 26psi at 4600rpm?! i have tried everything, done countless leak tests, checked base timing, drew jones tune, and my 95 tsi awd with a 6 bolk block/2g head is STILL only making 26psi by 5700rpm on a perfectly healthy HTA Red...
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  3. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    There are a lot of things that will effect spool. Boost leaks, camshaft lobe separation, afr and timing advance DURING spoolup are a few.
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

    1,414
    187
    Joined Nov 6, 2004
    tampa, Florida
    when boost is that slow its usually wastegate related. like wastegate installed with no seat. but yeah, could be lots of things
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
    manual · 4G63t Swapped
    Loading...
  5. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    Stock 1g turbo cams as well, everything is lined up. I've preloaded the internal gate that came on it and it hasn't changed anything. I'm using the ingersoll BCS and using ecmlink boost control, i've tried playing with the settings and it makes no difference. Also running speed density. I guess i'll just keep checking sh**.

    My last resort is to switch to a 7cm housing and put my punishment o2 housing with a 38mm tial wg on the car and see what happens.

    EDIT: i've fixed a couple small boost leaks since that datalog with no change in spool.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    5,608
    938
    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    What gear are you in when you get these results?
     

    Street Build 4K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    3rd..

    and actually I only hit 23 psi by 5700
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Proven Member

    9,953
    959
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Thats terrable considering my 6466 with 1.15 T4 sees 30psi by 5700 and thats even laggy for this turbo.
     

    888  17

    2006 Evo 9 MR
    awd · manual · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  9. rrussell

    rrussell Proven Member

    400
    54
    Joined Jan 7, 2008
    coeur d' alene, Idaho
    On my car before I went to my compound setup, my FP Red would make my target boost of 28 psi at 6000 rpm.
    This is with stock cams and stock intake. I also had FP weld the internal waste gate flapper shut. They did a terrible job on the weld so bad you could throw a small animal through the gap. I then went to the compound setup 13g/FP Red and its till struggled to get the Red to come online. So I
    re-welded the gate correctly and man what a difference. Now with the compound setup it makes max boost as fast as I want. Now I have it set to make 26 psi at 3900 rpm on the Blizzaks. With the QTP tires I have had it is high as 32 psi at 3900 rpm.
     

    Street Build 2K  16

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Archer Fabrications likes this.
  10. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    Take the line off the wastegate, plug the end of the line then punch it in third gear and see what happens but obviously let off the pedal as soon as you hit your target boost otherwise the turbo will hit over thirty psi with no wastegate signal. If it shows a huge difference in spool, then you just need to tune the solenoid a bit more. Of course the safer way to do the above test is to borrow a friends mbc or build a cheap one real quick.

    Holy hell, Rrussell, I can only imagine what Red powa would be like at that rpm! Wheres peak torque on that setup?
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    I'll try that next. I had the part that screws onto the wg actuator rod bottomed out(as tight as it could be, for wg preload) and upon looking at it, I don't think there was very much preload. I took it off and cut off a couple millimeters of threads and screwed it back in. I had to pull with a good amount of force to get it on the flapper. I'm going to see if it makes a difference.. In the end, if nothing I try makes a difference, i'll probably try to trade it for an HTA Green or something similar. This is just ridiculous. As long as I can still make 400whp on 93 i'll be happy.
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    Wanna trade? haha

    Nah my bottom end would sh** out its guts with a 6466 @30PSI
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Archer Fabrications likes this.
  13. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    Yeah, 400 whp on 93 pump piss is why I went with the Red. Hope I get there. Im still trying to get my max effort on the tune before going to the dyno.
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    Its definitely the turbo for the job. With the right cams and springs, and intake manifold it should be easy to make over 400whp on pump.

    I think(I pray) i'm close to 400whp right now, but the powerband is so peaky its useless. I'm about to go for a drive and see if the additional wastegate preload has made a difference.

    Are you on the internal gate or external?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    EDIT: Just looked at your profile. Should be super easy for you to make 400whp. That is a good setup you got there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. oren hughbanks

    oren hughbanks Proven Member

    266
    26
    Joined Aug 4, 2014
    prescott valley, Arizona
    Nice man I've enjoyed reading this thread. I'm looking in a red as well, and I was scrolling through your profile pics, I might be mistaken but do you have the punishment front mount? What did you do for your piping now that you don't have the jpipe, if you don't mind my inquiry :confused:
     

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Proven Member

    9,953
    959
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    It's all in the tune. 400whp isnt hard to make on these cars. I made 398whp on a bolt on hx40 at 20 psi on english racings dynojet. Nothing special either.. And they didn't even turn up the boost.... I left their shop cranking up the boost to 30 and re tuning my way home. Never been on the dyno since then and I'm sure car never made less then that. This was on 92 pump. I just switched to e85 and highly recommend it if it's available.
     

    888  17

    2006 Evo 9 MR
    awd · manual · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  17. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    I dont have ecmlink cause i use Tunerpro, but what does your timing advance look like from 4k to 5k? I have mine at 7, ramping to 11* by redline. Im on the internal wastegate preloaded to the max.
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  18. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    I just went for a ride after modifying the wg actuator rod. I think I preloaded it too much, cause now i'm spiking to 31psi.. need to mess with my bcs settings too... but the good news is it is now spooling like it is supposed to. 28psi at 4700. I think i'm gonna throw my Tial MVS on there anyways. I don't like the internal gate. Too finicky. I want some solid boost control. Set it and forget it.

    but yeah it turns out the threaded section of the actuator rod was too long on my Red and wouldn't allow me to preload it as much as it needs to be. I cut about 7mm off and was able to actually preload the wg flapper.

    timing under load in a 3rd gear pull is as follows.
    4000: 17*
    4200: 12*
    4400: 11*
    4800: 9*
    5200: 9*
    5600: 10*
    6000: 11*
    6400: 13*
    6600: 14*
    That was spiking 31psi and tapering down to 25psi by 5400 all the way to redline.
    I need to make some adjustments, as the car was tuned with the late spool. I got a small amount of knock and just about sh** myself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    Thats a pretty decent curve on pump with the boost that high, but if its knocking try going with 4.5K 8*, 5k 9*, 5.5k 10*, 6k 10* ,6.5k 11*, 7k 12*. You wont get away with much timing on pump. I had mine higher than yours but I noticed that it would knock during back to back pulls on the interstate, so I had to change the map bigtime. Ive got mine at 27 ish psi as of right now. Been tuning tonight a little. I could probably add a little timing around 4K but my low timing seems to help the spool, though I can feel a slight drop in torque when I initially punch it, so it definitely needs some adjustment. Im also using some experimental code in my setup so that basically, instead of grev, my map is based on rpm and maf hz. Pretty interesting and very easy to tune so far.
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    It only knocked on 1 pull when it spiked 31psi. On the others it did not, so i'm going to relieve some of the preload on the wastegate flapper and see if that fixes the spike. I think the tune is solid. But I'm going to have Drew Jones take a look at it after I swap to the Tial MVS and get it running steady on somewhere between 26 and 28psi. The red seems to REALLY wake up after 24psi.

    I need to do some hard back to back pulls though. Didn't think about that.
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  21. kchaazz

    kchaazz Proven Member

    1,169
    69
    Joined Oct 2, 2002
    PENSACOLA, Florida
    Yeah, I did mine at 28psi with more timing than Im running now, and it seemed okay but I only did one hard pull. Then, when I went to get ready to maybe go to the dyno, I really reamed it, back to back to back and it knocked, sometimes up to 12 counts, so I backed things down. Im going to crank it up a bit tomorrow if I have time, but Im on the stock bottom end rebuild, and Id hate to puke a rod
     

    5K  0

    1993 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    Yeah I'm in the same boat. Stock 6 bolt bottom end except for Mahle pistons. The previous owner had a machine shop in his back yard and mounted some Mahle 4032 pistons on stock 6 bolt rods.
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. rrussell

    rrussell Proven Member

    400
    54
    Joined Jan 7, 2008
    coeur d' alene, Idaho
    Still waiting to get it on the dyno but my guess would be around 4200 to 4500 rpm? I have some control on where the max boost will come in based on where the FP Red comes online.
     

    Street Build 2K  16

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  24. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    14,948
    865
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    If it's internally-gated, make sure the cover didn't walk down and take all the tension out of the wastegate actuator. I had a customer send one for a "rebuild" with a similar complaint and there was nothing wrong with the turbo itself...the cover slid down and the flapper was hung open about 1/8".

    FP should incorporate some type of locating pin like a 16G has to prevent this from happening....it's the downside of using strong actuators on turbos that don't have a bolt/flange-type clamp system for the compressor cover.
     

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    6K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. DSMTyson

    DSMTyson Proven Member

    1,225
    10
    Joined Nov 9, 2010
    Lake Charles, Louisiana
    Would mind elaborating on what you mean by the "cover walking down"? I assume you mean the compressor housing spinning/sliding one way or the other.

    How would I know? do the scribe a mark on the housing and chra?
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RixRacing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory