Is this motor done for?

[1996Eclipse420a]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRl-jjwWhuY&feature=c4-overview&list=UU0g6tgPHHMLjC9uewkHgT5w]420a Turbo Burning Oil Bad - YouTube[/ame]


Guys the compression is 125 on all cylinders. Idk why they seem so low, compared to other DSM readings, but the test was done closed throttle.

 

[Twinturbo120]

You'll be alright. If it still runs good just continue running it.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Why are you revving the crap out of it with the turbo off? Anyway looks like bad valve seals or your rings are shot, which with those low compression numbers seems like its time for new rings. Looks like its time to pull the motor and do a rebuild, maybe alittle more into the build this time to help it hold more boost.

 

[grothe3297venge]

I would do a leak down test.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

You'll be alright. If it still runs good just continue running it.

I can't it throws away oil like crazy. I can drive it 30 mins to see my father, and it's used 2 quarts oil.

Why are you revving the crap out of it with the turbo off? Anyway looks like bad valve seals or your rings are shot, which with those low compression numbers seems like its time for new rings. Looks like its time to pull the motor and do a rebuild, maybe alittle more into the build this time to help it hold more boost.

That's the thing though. It has had 125 compression once the build was finished. (done closed throttle. numbers may improve with the throttle all the way in) It never smoked without the turbo, and it ran fine with I put the first turbo on. It started leaking oil, so I sent the turbo off for a rebuild, got it back and the car is using oil, and the plugs are fouled out. It wasn't doing it before I took the first turbo off, and I revved it with the turbo off to make sure the turbo was throwing it back in the exhaust manifold.... It's actually throwing oil from the head, and soaking the exhaust manifold. I don't think seals would leak that bad?

Why are you revving the crap out of it with the turbo off? Anyway looks like bad valve seals or your rings are shot, which with those low compression numbers seems like its time for new rings. Looks like its time to pull the motor and do a rebuild, maybe alittle more into the build this time to help it hold more boost.

also, I had the motor built. It has 6k miles at the most. All forged internals.

I would do a leak down test.

sadly, I dont have the tools on me now. Nothing but a compression test gauge. anyone think the valve guides could be shot?

 

[GSTurbo1]

turbo seal

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

turbo seal

I don't think it's the turbo seal. I took the turbo off and revved it. definitely coming from the head.

 

[n0de]

Who built the motor, that would be my first question.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

Who built the motor, that would be my first question.

Had help from a guy named Eric Pierce. Worked at Chrysler.

 

[Dsmkauai]

So is your timing set correct? Pull the valve cover and you can check the valve seals quick and see if any look blown out. Also kinda sounds like the rings never fully set right or the added boost was just to much for the motor. Either way it looks like a full tear down and rebuild, but I would do as many test as you can before tearing anything apart.
Here are the numbers according to the factory service manual. So technically you are still above the service limit, but awfully low for only 6k on the build.
2G (95-99) T/E 2.0L NT 420A engine
Compression ratio 9.8:1
Standard compression 170-225 psi
Service limit 100 psi

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

So is your timing set correct? Pull the valve cover and you can check the valve seals quick and see if any look blown out. Also kinda sounds like the rings never fully set right or the added boost was just to much for the motor. Either way it looks like a full tear down and rebuild, but I would do as many test as you can before tearing anything apart.
Here are the numbers according to the factory service manual. So technically you are still above the service limit, but awfully low for only 6k on the build.
2G (95-99) T/E 2.0L NT 420A engine
Compression ratio 9.8:1
Standard compression 170-225 psi
Service limit 100 psi

Those numbers should drop though if I have mine built on 8:8.1 JE Pistons, and it never smoked. I drove it 1k miles before ever putting the turbo on the motor. The car did run a little lean, but I never got into boost that much, just for the very reason of it having problems. When I say lean, I mean 11.9.

 

[silvreclips]

Something is definitely wrong with that motor. I pull 180psi on 8.8:1 compression. You will have to do a leak down test to figure out whats leaking oil. Sounds like the rings from your symptoms unfortunately.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

Something is definitely wrong with that motor. I pull 180psi on 8.8:1 compression. You will have to do a leak down test to figure out whats leaking oil. Sounds like the rings from your symptoms unfortunately.

Did you do your test with the throttle in? I doubt it would make that much difference, but I mean, I've driven it at 125psi all this time before I put the turbo on and it never smoked. It ran fine for me.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Exactly before the turbo, your asking alot more out of your motor once you turbo it. Bottom line those numbers are rather low and its likely the problem. The rings are pushing oil into the cylinder and also on the plugs, probably why they are fouled. Either rebuild the motor and remove the turbo, or make sure the motor will handle more boost.

 

[bryanwheat]

You aren't going to be burning that much oil with bad valve seals, you likely installed the oil rings incorrectly when you rebuilt it, or the piston to wall clearance is out of spec.

 

[Mischif]

There's a big difference in compression test results when you test closed throttle compared to wide open throttle.

 

[Twinturbo120]

Oh that's an issue then, definitely time for a rebuild.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

Exactly before the turbo, your asking alot more out of your motor once you turbo it. Bottom line those numbers are rather low and its likely the problem. The rings are pushing oil into the cylinder and also on the plugs, probably why they are fouled. Either rebuild the motor and remove the turbo, or make sure the motor will handle more boost.

you have to understand, the motor is built for roughly 450whp. The guy that built it on the other hand probably F'd it up. It was fine when it was first boosted. I'm just so pissed off right now, that I can't think straight. Everything was bought that was needed to, and all the necessary machine work was done. I had it overbore .020. It's so aggravating.

Exactly before the turbo, your asking alot more out of your motor once you turbo it. Bottom line those numbers are rather low and its likely the problem. The rings are pushing oil into the cylinder and also on the plugs, probably why they are fouled. Either rebuild the motor and remove the turbo, or make sure the motor will handle more boost.

actually the internals that were put in the bottom end are good up to 600hp. I have main studs, headstuds, acl main/rod bearings...etc...

You aren't going to be burning that much oil with bad valve seals, you likely installed the oil rings incorrectly when you rebuilt it, or the piston to wall clearance is out of spec.

correct me if I'm wrong, but compression results will come back fairly good, even if the oil rings are damaged, right? So, should I try a leak down test?

You aren't going to be burning that much oil with bad valve seals, you likely installed the oil rings incorrectly when you rebuilt it, or the piston to wall clearance is out of spec.

are the valve guides a good place to check as well?

 

[Twinturbo120]

you have to understand, the motor is built for roughly 450whp. The guy that built it on the other hand probably F'd it up. It was fine when it was first boosted. I'm just so pissed off right now, that I can't think straight. Everything was bought that was needed to, and all the necessary machine work was done. I had it overbore .020. It's so aggravating.



actually the internals that were put in the bottom end are good up to 600hp. I have main studs, headstuds, acl main/rod bearings...etc...

I'm not trying to be a dick but that's why you do shit yourself. You paid someone to do something and they did it wrong. If you did it and broke it at least YOU would have learned something. Theirs a couple of threads on here where it was the builders fault. Just my .02 cents

 

[Dsmkauai]

That's good bro, then stop running the motor and get a rebuild done. You might get by with new rings and a quick cylinder wall deglaze. I would probably find a new engine builder, someone with more knowledge on boosting a 420a.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

I'm not trying to be a dick but that's why you do shit yourself. You paid someone to do something and they did it wrong. If you did it and broke it at least YOU would have learned something. Theirs a couple of threads on here where it was the builders fault. Just my .02 cents

It's not that Im completely stupid when it comes to building motors, it's just that I don't have the time. That's why I paid someone to do it, and I thought he would be the best choice because he was a mechanic at Chrysler. Maybe I was wrong, but if I do the build, then it will definitely take longer, and I haven't done any work to a bottom end before. I have no problem pulling the head off. Guess I'll figure something out though.

That's good bro, then stop running the motor and get a rebuild done. You might get by with new rings and a quick cylinder wall deglaze. I would probably find a new engine builder, someone with more knowledge on boosting a 420a.

I agree. I chose the one I did, because I figured he would be a pretty good mechanic, because he worked at a dealership. Guess I was wrong.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

There's a big difference in compression test results when you test closed throttle compared to wide open throttle.

An MG guy told me after I did a compression check that it doesn't matter if the throttle is open or closed but if it is closed it will just take longer to weeze up to the correct reading.

Just what I heard but seems correct.

 

[phunny]

It's not that Im completely stupid when it comes to building motors, it's just that I don't have the time. That's why I paid someone to do it, and I thought he would be the best choice because he was a mechanic at Chrysler. Maybe I was wrong, but if I do the build, then it will definitely take longer, and I haven't done any work to a bottom end before. I have no problem pulling the head off. Guess I'll figure something out though.



I agree. I chose the one I did, because I figured he would be a pretty good mechanic, because he worked at a dealership. Guess I was wrong.

If you're not completely stupid why do you keep asking about the throttle body? Could you explain how that has anything to due with a compression test?

 

[ShadyDoins]

Did you do a dry or wet compression test? Also did you bring the motor up to operating temp before testing? A wet test might be able to tell you if it's the rings that are the problem. They probably are though because all of the cylinders are reading low.

You shouldn't have broken in the motor without the turbo. The best way to break a motor in is right after first start you set the boost close to what you will want to run and then do a couple 3rd gear pulls from low rpm to redline and let the motor rev itself down after to clear debris. The first pull or two it will probably smoke but after a couple pulls the smoke will go away. You then change the oil and drive easy for the rest of the break in miles, and never break a motor in on synthetic oil just incase you didn't know.

 

[Sebba]

Did you do a dry or wet compression test? Also did you bring the motor up to operating temp before testing? A wet test might be able to tell you if it's the rings that are the problem. They probably are though because all of the cylinders are reading low.

You shouldn't have broken in the motor without the turbo. The best way to break a motor in is right after first start you set the boost close to what you will want to run and then do a couple 3rd gear pulls from low rpm to redline and let the motor rev itself down after to clear debris. The first pull or two it will probably smoke but after a couple pulls the smoke will go away. You then change the oil and drive easy for the rest of the break in miles, and never break a motor in on synthetic oil just incase you didn't know.

Yeah don't worry about warming up the fluids, just crank it up and give 'er a romp.