Resolved Is this clutch and pressure plate saveable? Less than 2k miles on SBC

[RLSchwabe]

Is this clutch and pressure plate saveable (Link below)? I switched from a ACT 2100 PP w/ a sprung street disc to the following set-up after a trans rebuild:


South Bend Clutch - Pressure Plate Type: SS-X Series 2700
B-Series Full Face Ceramic
ACT Streetlite Flywheel ( Measured @ .610" )
SS Braided Clutch Line
Pivot ball shimmed*

From Day 1 I had issues with engagement on this set-up. I replaced the master cylinder, rebuilt my clutch pedal assembly (1G), and had it welded. I got everything back together and I was still struggling with the engagement issues. My friends are telling me these parts are now paperweights. I don't want to spend another $400-$600 on a new clutch set-up and I'm wondering if this is saveable:

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[dustyboner]

the flywheel might be good after resurfacing, the rest looks like trash.

 

[RLSchwabe]

the flywheel might be good after resurfacing, the rest looks like trash.

Thank you sir <3

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yeah the rest is a no go on that thing.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I would contact SB and get their opinion. They can rebuild stuff for pretty cheap.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Vegas i think you sent them stuff and it was good price if i recall vs new stuff right.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Vegas i think you sent them stuff and it was good price if i recall vs new stuff right.

Very cheap and they can switch you to different clutch faces etc. At least that's my experience a couple years ago.

 

[streetraceboi]

Id reach out to SBC as mentioned. My friend had the same type of issue and they warrantied it out for him at no cost, and he was good as new after.

 

[twicks69]

The markings on the backside of the pressure plate look like the disk hub was contacting the backside of the fingers from over-disengagement. Why was the pivot ball shimmed? It likely could have been the issue for this.

Contact DJ Pyfer @ SBC, his email is [email protected], he will have you ship the pressure plate and disk back to them for servicing, and will give you an RMA number to label box with, and have inside on a piece of paper with all of your contact/shipping information.

They can also resurface the flywheel and make sure everything works properly in-house.

 

[RLSchwabe]

The pivot ball was shimmed by a rebuilder at Jack's Transmissions when the trans was rebuilt. They recommended that it stay shimmed even with all new components. I'll reach out to SBC to get the ball rolling. Thank you for taking a look - it's certainly been a headscratcher for me.

 

[XC92]

Is this a classic case of too much preload, with the disc slipping even with the pedal all the way up? If so, what happens to the MC, SC, line, etc., when the pedal's pushed all the way in? You can obviously see what happens to the disc, flywheel & PP.

Sorry, don't meant to hijack, just trying to learn and I'm in the middle of working on my clutch system myself right now and want to avoid such issues.

 

[RLSchwabe]

@twicks69

I think this is a better question for Twicks69. His knowledge and experience far exceeds mine.

From all my research this is what I learned:

Oem Master Cyl, OEM Slave, Check/Double-check/Triple-check the flywheel step height even if it's brand new, for 1Gs: check your pedal assembly for any freeplay/slop - heavy clutches will kill them and they need to be welded for longevity, extended master or slave rods are a bandaid fix and should never be used in place of proper diagnosis and repair, shimming the pivot ball is about the only 'acceptable' bandaid but even then if your transmission is out of the car you should either be replacing the pivotball+clutch fork or waiting until you can. I may have missed the mark on some of these but this is what I've found.

 

[troppo loungo]

NFG!

 

[XC92]

NFG? As in FUBAR?

 

[troppo loungo]

Yup, No FN Good

 

[RLSchwabe]

RESOLVED

SBC/TMZ Performance offered to rebuild the parts for slightly cheaper but I opted to buy a new clutch and pressure plate set-up from SBC. The car is shifting great so far - only 200 miles on the clutch - so not launching or pushing on it yet.

1. New clutch + pressure plate
2. Resurfaced ACT flywheel ( .610" )
3. New OEM flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts
4. New OEM slave + master cylinder
5. New OEM throwout bearing
6. New clutch fork (forged competition) + new OEM pivot ball
7. Removed all shims from the transmission

@twicks69 reviewed the thread and determined the issue was likely over-disengagement, which I believe was accurate.

"The markings on the backside of the pressure plate look like the disk hub was contacting the backside of the fingers from over-disengagement. Why was the pivot ball shimmed? It likely could have been the issue for this."

(Note: 1G DSMs also suffer from an issue with the Z-bar design of the clutch pedal assembly. Prior, I also had some free-play in my clutch due to this. I removed the assembly, rebuilt with new parts and brass bushing and had it welded )

Thank you everyone and especially @twicks69



RESOLVED

 

[pauleyman]

The last line was probably the biggest problem. Clutch pedal causes more problems in 1g than any other item I see now. When the cars were newer it was always just improper adjustment or worn fork/pivot.
I also wonder what your ACT flywheel was before you just resurfaced it. I have a huge pet peeve to people saying "all parts are new, why doesn't it work?". It's because they didn't verify the work first. ALWAYS measure even if the part is new.

 

[twicks69]

Typically ACT's are 0.6065-6080" out of the box new.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Do you surface one that measures that Tim, to get the .610"?

 

[RLSchwabe]

I took the flywheel to a local mechanic that measured it - he 'confirmed' that it was .610" BUT #1. he didn't seem very proficient in using the digital micrometer and #2. didn't measure across the entire surface and so I can't confidently say the flywheel was in spec. If I had to guess, I'd say my problem was a result of:

1. Shims
2. Clutch pedal assembly
3. Master cylinder

By the time I had my clutch assembly removed, rebuilt, and re-installed I think most of the damage had already been done. In the end, USER ERROR.

 

[Mello]

Typically ACT's are 0.6065-6080" out of the box new.

My experience with only one car was my Competition Clutch flywheel was stepped 0.6065-0.6080" out of the box. My ACT Streetlite was 0.6100" out of the box.
Competition Clutch was of zero help in correcting this & I still have their flywheel, brand new, unused sitting in the box. My CC flywheel came from TMZ Performance along with my SBC kit. At the time TMZ said they had several CC flywheels on the shelf & all of them were measuring short like above.

 

[pauleyman]

I quit asking the machinist. Most just don't care. I just ask for a depth mic and I do it myself.

 

[XC92]

Don't you need a dial indicator to measure step, not a micrometer?

 

[twicks69]

Depth micrometer works just fine, otherwise a straight edge bar with dial indicator works just fine too (zero'ing out at step, then dropping to friction surface like RRE has in their old post - https://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm ).

 

[92AWDHX40]

The good old rre, company true veterans at this stuff since people started modding these cars. They helped me when i first got started.