2G Is AWD conversion worth it?

[Thecarfixerguy]

So the question is if it’s worth the time, money, and effort to do an AWD conversion. How much better is AWD and are there reasons I might want to stay FWD. I want pros and cons.

I always wanted an AWD Turbo DSM, but finding clean cars is harder and harder these days. Finally a super clean(body and interior) Talon TSI FWD came up and I pulled the trigger on it. I bought it as a project with the engine out already and I’m planning on doing a ground up build. I’m a certified auto technician and repair shop owner. I know it’s a project, but doing the work isn’t a huge deal to me. Honestly for me sourcing the parts is harder than doing the conversion.

My goals for the car aren’t to win any races or be the fastest guy on the strip. I want fun. It will be mostly street driving with maybe an occasional track day.

Also if anyone has the parts laying around for an AWD/MT swap I’d love to know what it would take($) to get the parts shipped to the Northwest US.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Depending on your needs really i love awd.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Not worth it. Just wait on a AWD shell or car.
Then you can do things like this, .

 

[Bo0sTeD 4G63]

AWD is the way to go, my car was originally FWD and I converted it to AWD.

 

[Kryndon]

These cars shine as AWD, that's where they really get the work done and rival the rest. And in the winter it's the perfect usable daily driver that you really have to try hard to get stuck.

I’m a certified auto technician and repair shop owner. I know it’s a project, but doing the work isn’t a huge deal to me. Honestly for me sourcing the parts is harder than doing the conversion.

You're a techie AND have your own shop?! This will be a breeze for you then. Especially since you can use your lift and work properly under the car. Honestly the hardest part of this is finding ALL the right parts and having them all together at once. In terms of welding the most crucial things are welding in the driveshaft carrier bearing gusset (or fabricating it yourself), as well as replacing the two shorter rear subframe bolts with the longer AWD ones. This involves cutting a small hole in the chassis and inserting the longer bolt through there, then welding it up and covering the hole. This way the subframe can properly mount onto the chassis.

The rest is a simple bolt-on affair and I believe some minor re-wiring for the AWD pump and sender unit and ABS provisions if you have them. I think, especially if you can weld somewhat decently AND have access to a shop, an AWD conversion on a CLEAN FWD chassis is very worth it especially nowadays.

Also @1990TSIAWDTALON I loved that lil' pat on the dash. I thought I was the only one who did it when I beat on my car HAH!

P.S FWD can also be ridiculously fast and fun, but the AWD launches and superior grip just makes it better and more fun.

 

[steve]

It's surprising how different the feel of the car is between the FWD and AWD versions. I always feel like I'm being dragged around in the FWD DSM's. And then there is that torque steer that totally missing in the AWD.

 

[pauleyman]

I think the question is definitely dependent upon the use of the car. As daily driver AWD hands down. 365 driveability pretty much. On a weekend only car where you can run very sticky tires without worrying about mileage/wear I'm not so sure AWD always wins. I do prefer my AWD but I have owned FWD and on the highway they do put down the hurt. Given my skill level now I wouldn't hesitate to own a FWD and put in an LSD front. If I intended to race it seriously or daily drive it then probably AWD. I have some bias owning mostly AWD for 30 years. Launch is addictive especially against a higher HP car. I've had cars with 150hp on me have to chase me down substantially from a dig. Add some HP and that no longer happens.

 

[Mech Addict]

I thought there would’ve been more fwd supporters. I have awd in my car, but I recall driving my Dad’s Laser turbo, and it was a hoot. Well behaved chassis from what I recall back in the early 90s. I geek out on the sophistication of these cars for a mass-produced wonder. Certainly awd is an important part of the dsm genetic code, but probably for good fun and value, putting your time and money (counting the obtaining of donor parts), you instead spend that all on safely making another 100+ hp. And these cars like to make that with a healthy dose of rpm’s, meaning the traction break off the line isn’t as much an issue since you’re not yet in the power band. So unless you’re winters are like where I live, how much will you miss it.?

 

[habitatguy187]

I really liked my old fwd turbo 1g. It felt substantially lighter than my awd does. Yeah it spun tires in 3rd but the good news is it never broke anything, it just spins. Also got over 30mpg on the highway. I want a fwd again as a city romper/beater

 

[Thecarfixerguy]

Thanks for the input everyone. It sounds like I really do want AWD, but the car will still be fun FWD. To me it made sense to do the conversion now because engine and trans are already out.

However, I decided I’m going to focus on building the engine up and making a good runner at this time. I’d like to be driving the car by the springtime and I don’t think that would be a realistic goal if I try to do the AWD swap now. I can make the AWD swap a project for another winter.

I love the responses I got. I’m going to be asking a lot of questions in the next couple months so thanks for the input and quick responses in advance.

 

[chrysler kid]

The front wheel drive cars are faster in the quarter mile than the all wheel drive cars.

I have a skewed opinion, if youre going to heavily modify these cars all wheel drive is extremely better.

But stock for stock or just fun bolt ons the front wheel drive cars are much quicker and quirkier to drive than the all wheel drive

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Not from a dig........
My son did have a Spyder that we put a Qualf unit in and it didn't do bad. It could hang with 12.5 cars from a roll so she was quick. That car got stolen and taken for a joy ride it was so fun but the thieves wrecked it at a corner and put it into a tree. Dam.......

 

[b00st3d]

Not worth it. Just wait on a AWD shell or car.
Then you can do things like this, .

I have to disagree at this point, Marty. With Volk making the AWD swap bushing kit now it saves a lot of the pain in the ass work. If the chassis you're starting with is clean or something you have an attachment to, it's a viable option. it's getting harder to find a good car for a good price.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I sure don't disagree with that. They are getting harder to find and if Paul has all the conversion stuff then you are spot on as not being as hard to convert them now. Piecing together the running gear is probably the easiest part.

 

[chrysler kid]

Not from a dig........
My son did have a Spyder that we put a Qualf unit in and it didn't do bad. It could hang with 12.5 cars from a roll so she was quick. That car got stolen and taken for a joy ride it was so fun but the thieves wrecked it at a corner and put it into a tree. Dam.......

If I recall correctly car and driver review in 1995 the gst did the quarter mile in 15.2 seconds and the gsx in 15.7 seconds

 

[jdxnc]

Don't do it, it's a trap. One moment you AWD swap it, then before you know it you dropped $9k on a PPG dogbox

 

[JohntyBee]

I'm currently in the process of AWD swapping my 7th Gen galant. The US models never came with an AWD option and the best model you could get was the 94 GS which was still a fwd DOHC 4g64. Back when I started doing serious work on my galant I just did the basic 5 speed and slightly built engine like most people would

The idea of doing the swapped popped I my head maybe around 2016-2017 but I wasn't it a rush to do anything. Now present day I have the skill and knowledge to do the swap but I'm unable to source good parts/donors.

I'm probably about $900 into my swap so far.
- 8G VR4 subframe/diff/axles/Driveshaft/etc
- 2G Gas tank Custom Wiring/Diy Pump setup
- Self made Stainless exhaust
The rear end is pretty much completed and all i need now is to find a transmission setup (Clutch,front axles,etc), transfer case, and some new tires.

I'll get everything together at some point but imo it was worth it so far. I'll continue to build things and end up with a finished product that I'll be proud to say I did myself

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If I recall correctly car and driver review in 1995 the gst did the quarter mile in 15.2 seconds and the gsx in 15.7 seconds

I can't quote numbers but we have had both, and please don't get me wrong, that Spyder got out of town. But when I ran the same Bastard 20g from Jus Turbos that he had, it would dig him out of the hole. We drag race so stock stuff isn't what I am going by, I am going off of the 2 different cars with the same turbo handed down from his FWD to my AWD. As I think Steve said, they can be fun (I have a 90 Laser) but torque steer and planting the HP to the pavement, there is a difference (hince why he put the Qualfe in). At a roll, if he ran his drag radials, it was a fun and quick car. I can't remember if we ever got it to the track before it got stolen but it was street credible for sure. Of course it came out of our shop, so it is to be expected . I'm not running down a good running FWD for sure.

 

[Dusty Landrum]

These cars shine as AWD, that's where they really get the work done and rival the rest. And in the winter it's the perfect usable daily driver that you really have to try hard to get stuck.



You're a techie AND have your own shop?! This will be a breeze for you then. Especially since you can use your lift and work properly under the car. Honestly the hardest part of this is finding ALL the right parts and having them all together at once. In terms of welding the most crucial things are welding in the driveshaft carrier bearing gusset (or fabricating it yourself), as well as replacing the two shorter rear subframe bolts with the longer AWD ones. This involves cutting a small hole in the chassis and inserting the longer bolt through there, then welding it up and covering the hole. This way the subframe can properly mount onto the chassis.

The rest is a simple bolt-on affair and I believe some minor re-wiring for the AWD pump and sender unit and ABS provisions if you have them. I think, especially if you can weld somewhat decently AND have access to a shop, an AWD conversion on a CLEAN FWD chassis is very worth it especially nowadays.

Also @1990TSIAWDTALON I loved that lil' pat on the dash. I thought I was the only one who did it when I beat on my car HAH!

P.S FWD can also be ridiculously fast and fun, but the AWD launches and superior grip just makes it better and more fun.

As Paul stated above, the kits available make the rear part simple bolt on and go too. Just some simple welds for carrier bearings and that is it. Now finding those parts not rusted to hell or for an astronomical price is the hard part .

Having owned a GS, GS-T and now two GSX.. hands down AWD is the way to go man.

 

[IHeartMyHonda]

I just finished up my AWD Spyder using the Volk conversion bushings. This is my 4th (I think?) AWD 2g. It's the second swap I've done. It's totally worth it to me, given that Spyders weren't available AWD stock. Is it easier to buy a GSX instead of swapping a coupe? Yes. But the VMC bushing kit makes it sooo much easier than it used to be. With all of the parts ready to go, I could easily do the swap in a weekend now.

Now I can confidently drive my car in the snow.

 

[JohntyBee]

I just finished up my AWD Spyder using the Volk conversion bushings. This is my 4th (I think?) AWD 2g. It's the second swap I've done. It's totally worth it to me, given that Spyders weren't available AWD stock. Is it easier to buy a GSX instead of swapping a coupe? Yes. But the VMC bushing kit makes it sooo much easier than it used to be. With all of the parts ready to go, I could easily do the swap in a weekend now.

Now I can confidently drive my car in the snow.

I was maybe a weekend into mounting the awd rear subframe in my galant. I think right around this time they either recently released their kit or I just finally became aware that they had one. Would of saved some time and decrease the amount of cutting into my clean metal