Is a 420a powered car considered a DSM?

[sumenlo]

I was once told by a very knowledgable DSM owner that the 420a cars are not considered DSM's because they didn't come out of the same factory as the 4G63's. is this true? The reason I ask is because DSM was the joint venture between Mitsubishi and Chrysler to make the Eclipses, Lasers, and Talons. So taking that into consideration, wouldn't every one of these cars be considered a DSM?

 

[Game Over]

This topic is beaten to death.

 

[onepimpclipse]

This topic is beaten to death.

Amen to that.




Really there is no right or wrong answer. It really depends who you ask. I say yes.

 

[sumenlo]

I did some searching and didn't really find the answer I was looking for. What are the arguments between the two sides? I'm kinda looking for some kind of concrete evidence either way. I find it hard to believe that it's just a matter of opinion. there has to be a right answer.

 

[BGRIPTP]

They where made in the same factory, at the same time.

 

[sumenlo]

They where made in the same factory, at the same time.

okay, if that's the case, then how can anybody say that a 420a car is NOT a DSM?

 

[pr0]

okay, if that's the case, then how can anybody say that a 420a car is NOT a DSM?

Because some people are wierd. They laugh at the the n/t's even though my car has dsm badges everywhere... and I don't know where you got that info, but the 420a cars came out of the same factory.

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[Bigglesworth87]

If it makes you guys feel any better, i pulled up next to a 2gb gst the other day and told the guy "Thats a nice DSM!" and his reply was "#### you!" !

 

[cuttheduck]

....

What exactly is a DSM?

Technically, a DSM is a car built by Diamond Star Motors, a joint venture between Mitsubishi and Chrysler. More details about DSM are here.

For the purposes of the Talon Digest, the definition of a DSM has been extended somewhat; see below for details.

[Note: From time to time, debates on the definition of a 'DSM' emerge on the Digest. These debates usually center around a record-breaking car which, because it does or does not have a certain component or feature, 'should' or 'should not' be considered a 'DSM' in the 'true' sense of the word.

Such judgements are entirely subjective and cannot be resolved, except by arbitrary rules; resist the temptation to reopen any such debate on the Talon Digest, as the moderator (and membership) are tired of hearing about it. All race results that can reasonably be deemed related to DSMs are reported - whoever is king in your own mind is best kept to yourself.]

In further news, the now-merged DaimlerChrysler corporation purchased a 34% stake in the now-ailing Mitsubishi Motors corporation in April, 2000. This is not to be taken as a re-emergence of DSM, however - the DSM marque is now consigned to the pages of history.


What happened to DSM?
What happened to Eagle?

Diamond-Star Motors was officially dissolved in 1993 after the design and production tooling for the 1994 and 1995 cars was complete. Mitsubishi Motors continues to operate the plant formerly responsible for DSM cars under sole ownership.

The "Eagle" brand name was originally created as a method of integrating AMC dealerships and products into Chrysler. It continued for some time as a marque, much as General Motors now continues to market under several brand names. It was eventually discontinued as Chrysler sought to improve their business operations. For more information, go to Eaglecars.com.

What is a 1G?
What is a 2G?
What is a 3G?
What is a Y2K Eclipse?

These terms are acronyms for the 'generation' of car. 1Gs (first generation) were built in the model years 1990-1994, 2Gs in 1995-1999, and 3Gs in the year 2000 onward. The Y2K Eclipse is the year 2000 Eclipse.


Are 2Gs (second generation, 1995+ cars) really DSMs?

[Note: this information applies only to the definition of a 'DSM' as used for the purposes of the Talon Digest, and does not reflect the personal opinion of any individual.]

2G cars are considered DSMs because they are direct descendants of the original DSM cars. Although they were technically not built by Diamond Star Motors, their connection to the original line is unmistakable, as they share the name, trim levels and original intention of the 1G cars.

Also, some early 95 cars have DSM labeling on them, leading many to believe that all 2Gs were built by Diamond Star Motors. This is not the case, as Diamond Star Motors officially ceased to exist in mid-1993, when Chrysler sold off all of its Mitsubishi holdings, technically making the 1994 cars the last of the DSMs. This type of hair-splitting is not important for Club purposes, however, and the Club has decided that 2Gers have as much right to be included as earlier owners.

The Galant VR-4 is something of an oddity in the club, but the VR-4 shares many important components with the 1G cars, including the unusual AWD drivetrain. It can be argued that the Galant VR-4 is the "parent" of all DSMs: the original concept for the DSM in North America was a four-door. Also the VR-4 platform was originally concieved to be Mitsubishi's entry into the rally racing circuit before DSM existed.

A similar situation exists with the 2G Spyder convertible, but it's connection with the other 2G cars is unmistakable. Thus the Spyder and VR4 are included in the scope of the Talon Digest.

Other pseudo-related cars, such as the non-USA Lancer and Mirage, are not included in the Digest.

Are 3Gs (third generation, 1995+ cars) really DSMs?

[Note: this information applies only to the definition of a 'DSM' as used for the purposes of the Talon Digest, and does not reflect the personal opinion of any individual.]

The relationship between the 1G, 2G and 3G cars can be summarized as follows:

* 3Gs were not built by Diamond Star Motors, which was dissolved in 1993,
* they do not have the same engine lineup as the 1990-1999 cars,
* they do not have the same transmission lineup as the 1990-1999 cars,
* they share few parts with the 1990-1999 cars,
* they share few upgrade parts or upgrade paths with the 1990-1999 cars.

For the above reasons, it is the opinion of the Talon Digest moderator that the 3G cars can not be properly supported on the Talon Digest. Because of this, general discussion of the 3Gs cars will not be part of the Digest.

Please note that the diference in external appearance between 1G/2G cars and 3G cars was not a factor in making this determination. The moderator simply feels that to introduce discussion of a largely different car into the Digest will result in a fragmented version of a list which has already expanded well past the most optimistic expectations. There is no denying that most of the past and present discussion on the Talon Digest will have little to do with 3G cars It also seems unreasonable to expect future discussion on 1G/2G cars to be of interest to 3G owners because their cars have different engines, upgrades, and problems than previous models.

Owners of 3G cars need not despair. Ryan Vaughn has started the 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse Performance Web Site, focused on modifying and maintaining the new model cars, with an associated Club 3G mailing list. Additionally, discussion on similar parts, upgrades or modifications will still be allowed on the Talon Digest, as they are with other cars such as the Colt, Mirage and Lancer, and a great deal of useful general performance information is contained in the many FAQ files. Also, speciality DSM vendors have already begun to support the 3G; this support will increase more and more in the years ahead.


Are Sebrings and Avengers DSMs?

Aside from the fact that Sebring and Avenger cars are built in the same MMMA plantas the 2G cars, there is nothing to connect them to the DSM name. They do not share heritage, appearance, upgrade paths or many parts with DSMs. For this reason, these two models are not considered DSMs, and discussion regarding these cars is not part of the Talon Digest or most UBB systems concentrating on DSMs.

Having said that, the Avenger enthusiasts are quick to point out that the Avenger/Sebring platform and the second-generation non-turbo DSM platform do share some similarities. They have similar interiors, bodies, and suspension, and several of the non-turbo upgrades for the NT DSMs work on the A/S cars, since some A/S cars have the same 420A Chrysler motor. Also, some A/S cars have a 2.5L NT similar to the 3.0L NT found in third-generation Eclipses. (Information provided by Tomas Ely.) It could be argued that the A/S cars are cousins to the DSMs - not the same, but similar.

Those looking for more information on the Avenger and Sebring would do well to visit the A/S Owner's Group (ASOG).

 

[sumenlo]

That's all fine and I appreciate the info, however, considering all the facts and information, it seems absurd to me why anybody would not consider a 420a a DSM. What exactly are the arguments behind this. I understand that they are DSM's, I just want to know the thinking behind someone who does not believe this.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I just want to know the thinking behind someone who does not believe this.

There is no thinking behind it, the person is an idiot.

 

[Defiant]

I was once told by a very knowledgable DSM owner that

This is exactly why I tell folks to never do this.
Double- and triple-check all the stories you hear.