Input spacer/shim

[TheBoosted96GST]

Hey!! Alright straight to the point..... is the F5M33(FWD) spacer for input shaft endplay the same as W5M33(AWD)? I'm rebuilding my transmission and I have the FSM, now i'm all done just looking to shim, and when I went to the FSM for input spacer thickness it doesn't list any shims/spacers for input endplay, but when I go up to the FWD trans. section it shows part numbers for input shims.... anyone know? I've got all my other shims and eveything else is good, just waiting on this. thanks!

 

[twicks69]

F5M33 and W5M33 use the same spacers.

Pages 22A-14 and 22A-15 will have your Input Shaft shim sizes and part numbers for sizes ranging from 0.80mm to 1.46mm thick.

If you do not have these pages in your FSM, PM me with the thickness you need, and I will give you the part number.

 

[TheBoosted96GST]

ok cool, I have a pdf 91 FSM it doesn't have the chapters set up like that. But anyway if the w5m33 and f5m33 share the same shims then i'm golden! Thanks!!!

 

[twicks69]

ok cool, I have a pdf 91 FSM it doesn't have the chapters set up like that. But anyway if the w5m33 and f5m33 share the same shims then i'm golden! Thanks!!!

Hey anytime! If you want, you can PM me with the shim sizes and part numbers that you have and I can cross-check them to confirm proper part number. I only takes a second to do.

Otherwise, here they are in SAE measurement. You can cross-check them yourself for metric equivilant.

ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Input Shaft MD727661 80 0.0315"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720937 83 0.0327"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720938 86 0.0338"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720939 89 0.0350"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720940 92 0.0362"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720941 95 0.0374"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720942 98 0.0386"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720943 1 0.0398"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720944 4 0.0409"
Shim - Input Shaft MD720945 7 0.0421"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710454 J 0.0433"
Shim - Input Shaft MD700270 D 0.0445"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710455 K 0.0457"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710456 L 0.0468"
Shim - Input Shaft MD700271 G 0.0480"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710457 M 0.0492"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710458 N 0.0504"
Shim - Input Shaft MD706574 E 0.0561"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710459 O 0.0527"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710460 P 0.0539"
Shim - Input Shaft MD706573 - 0.0551"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710461 Q 0.0563"
Shim - Input Shaft MD710462 R 0.0575"

 

[TheBoosted96GST]

sorry for the late response, I used your info to double check my service manual. Thanks again

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Shimming my AWD trans and every time I do the solder measurement on the Center diff it comes up with .037" - .039" + a preload of .005"= .042"-.044". The thinnest spacer for the center diff is 1.13mm or .0445". Will this be ok to put in? Or is it going to have too much preload? I think I've got the other two shafts figured out.

 

[twicks69]

Shimming my AWD trans and every time I do the solder measurement on the Center diff it comes up with .037" - .039" + a preload of .005"= .042"-.044". The thinnest spacer for the center diff is 1.13mm or .0445". Will this be ok to put in? Or is it going to have too much preload? I think I've got the other two shafts figured out.

That seems a bit thin, is the lower bearing race fully installed into the case? Is the lower and upper bearing fully pressed onto the center diff housing and cover?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I figured out the Center diff problem. I have two center diffs and I didn't have the correct race for the center diff I was using, one is thicker than the other. I swapped it out and got a .055" measurement. I actually had a shim that was .056" and should work.

What the hell... I'm stumped though. I got consistant measurements on my input and intermediate shafts of:

Input: .035"-.037" with an endplay of 0.000" - .002" = .034" shim used
Intermediate: .039"-.040" with a preload of .003" - .005" = .042" shim used

I figured since all my measurements kept on coming back the same or close to the same I wouldn't have any problems with the shims I used. So, I rtv'd up the case and put 5th gear, VCU, and torqued the case down. I flipped the case over on it's side and I cannot turn the input shaft . I'm very frustrated because I did the crush test 3 times and got similar results every time except of course for the center diff. What gives? I assume it's too thick of a shim on the input shaft.

Also, I have been using 2.4mm rosin core 60/40 solder for all measurements.

Now, I have to take everything back apart and redo all of my measurements. What a PITA!! I guess that goes to show you that you should put the case back together with the shims and everything before you RTV it all together and before putting 5th gear and the VCU on.

 

[donniekak]

I figured out the Center diff problem. I have two center diffs and I didn't have the correct race for the center diff I was using, one is thicker than the other. I swapped it out and got a .055" measurement. I actually had a shim that was .056" and should work.

What the hell... I'm stumped though. I got consistant measurements on my input and intermediate shafts of:

Input: .035"-.037" with an endplay of 0.000" - .002" = .034" shim used
Intermediate: .039"-.040" with a preload of .003" - .005" = .042" shim used

I figured since all my measurements kept on coming back the same or close to the same I wouldn't have any problems with the shims I used. So, I rtv'd up the case and put 5th gear, VCU, and torqued the case down. I flipped the case over on it's side and I cannot turn the input shaft . I'm very frustrated because I did the crush test 3 times and got similar results every time except of course for the center diff. What gives? I assume it's too thick of a shim on the input shaft.

Also, I have been using 2.4mm rosin core 60/40 solder for all measurements.

Now, I have to take everything back apart and redo all of my measurements. What a PITA!! I guess that goes to show you that you should put the case back together with the shims and everything before you RTV it all together and before putting 5th gear and the VCU on.

I've found that the best method is to rtv the center case to the bell housing with all shafts in place after checking the front diff and front output shaft. Then i measure 1 race at a time on the input, intermediate, and center diff by using the bearing plate and 4 of the bolts without the end case. I then shim them 1 at a time. This way i can feel the shaft turn to verify the right tension. I preload all shafts. You will be amazed at how quick the 2-3, and 3-4 shifts can be with a preloaded input shaft. You will also have less of a chance of breaking the teeth off of 3rd or 4th gear. If i'm building a heavy duty drag transmission it is hard to turn the input shaft with a clutch disk when in gear.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I guess that's how I'm going to have to do it this time. I was just hoping that I had the correct shims just laying around from 3 different transmissions. Also, with the solder in place and the case torqued down, I layed the trans on it's side and I could spin it very easily and shift it into any gear easily. When I get home from work I'll start tearing it apart again. I wouldn't be pissed if 5th gear and the VCU wasn't already on there. The intermediate gear and VCU is a bi*** to get off!!

 

[donniekak]

I guess that's how I'm going to have to do it this time. I was just hoping that I had the correct shims just laying around from 3 different transmissions. Also, with the solder in place and the case torqued down, I layed the trans on it's side and I could spin it very easily and shift it into any gear easily. When I get home from work I'll start tearing it apart again. I wouldn't be pissed if 5th gear and the VCU wasn't already on there. The intermediate gear and VCU is a bi*** to get off!!

I have a 3 arm gear puller that i ground down the fingers on so they are thin enough to get under the dsm 5th gears, helps tremendously.

 

[twicks69]

I just use an OTC gear splitter and push-puller. It takes less than 30 seconds to do the whole process.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Ok... So, I took the end case off along with 5th gear and the VCU. I then pulled out all of the shims and added them back in one at a time. Each shaft spun independently of each other with the same shims that I put in to begin with. I then put every shim in and it still spins fine and shifts into every gear great. This is all without the end case and without 5th gear and the VCU installed.

Adding 5th gear and the end nuts shouldn't change the case preloads, should it? That's the only thing I can think of is that it's binding once I put the end shaft nuts on.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well... I figured it all out!! Since I'm mixing and matching parts for this trans I've come across a few things that I had to change in order to fit 2g internals in a '90/early '91 case.

Everything would spin fine until the end case was put on. Then everything would lock up. Come to find out since the 2g 5th gear hub has a larger diameter the shift fork was hitting the end case somehow locking up the trans when torqued down. Swapped on the 2g end case and everything is good. Except I didn't clock the reverse idler correctly so I might have to tear into it yet again just to turn the damn shaft to line up for the bolt. haha things overlooked....