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420A Injector Size

Posted by BLACK'98DSM, Apr 16, 2019

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  1. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    What cc injectors came stock on the 420a? How can i tell if I have the stock injectors, and what would be a good replacement for them? Best performing ones?
     

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  2. dustyboner

    dustyboner DSM Wiseman

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    stock is 235cc

    stock injectors will have grey tops and

    on side of the injector will have a chrysler symbol and the mitsubishi part number 4669011 (actually part number from ASA is M04669011)
    DSC05139_cr.jpg


    the other side will have the bosch part number 280150965

    DSC05138_cr.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  3. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Would putting 500cc help my performance?
     

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  4. shinzon

    shinzon Proven Member

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    No, not unless you have a reason to increase the injector size (i.e. turbo upgrade requiring more fuel).
     

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  5. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    I have a full intake and a full exhaust system. So my engine puts in and puts out plenty of air, so the only thing I'm really lacking is more fuel. But I don't want to spend that money for no reason.
     

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  6. shinzon

    shinzon Proven Member

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    Do you have anything to log your fuel trim and injector duty cycle? Any OBD scanner than can display live data would suffice. If you find that your injectors are nearly maxed out with your current setup (duty cycle near 100%) then it may be worth upgrading your injectors, but 500cc would likely be too big. You'd need something to tune the car for bigger injectors after the upgrade, of course.
     

    856  2

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    427  1

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  7. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    What size do you have in mind?
     

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  8. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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  9. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Like already stated, upgrading injectors will most likely be a waste of money. You first need a wideband to see what your AFR is under WOT. And if you find that you need to adjust that. You will need to look into a tuning solution. The stock injectors should have enough head room to slightly tweak the AFR if you find it not in an acceptable range.

    Now, with all that said, no one retunes these cars with only an intake and exhaust. Once you start changing cams etc you may need to make some adjustments.
     
  10. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Cams have been replaced, and decked and polished heads.
     

    Street Build 693  4

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  11. dustyboner

    dustyboner DSM Wiseman

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    e.png
    I just noticed ^^^

    Max for Stock 235cc injectors @ 90% duty cycle::
    180 Hp @ crank
    which is about 150 Hp @ wheels

    So how did you manage 208 whp on the stock injectors?

    At your power level, you would be maxing out 30# injectors @ 90% DC
    To be at a safe 80% DC, you would need 34# injectors.
    I would either go with
    RC 35# injectors
    or
    Bosch 36# injectors (Part # 0280155868)

    You will for sure need some way to tune the fuel. a 36 pounder is 50% larger than stock.
     
  12. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    The reason I was asking for how I can tell if I have stock injectors is because the owner before me did alot of upgrades he didn't tell me about. I'm not sure if he did injectors or not but I will have to look into it.

    But I guess the assumption is that they're not stock...
     

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  13. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    I sure would like to see a full mod list for a 420a that is putting out over 200whp NA. And on a stock ECU at that. I am very skeptical that this car is putting out that much power.

    I think Bullet is still the only person to break the 200whp barrier with a NA 420a.
     
  14. dustyboner

    dustyboner DSM Wiseman

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    courtesy of 2gnt.com

    Screenshot-2019-4-17 2GNT com - bullettdsm_Dyno.png

    I'm pretty sure the dyno is from was done in 2010 with this mod list:
    (car ran 13.231 @ 106.09, numbers may changed since then)

    Current mod list for the car:

    Trans Modifications
    Quaife LSD
    NON modular clutch set-up; Audi PP, T4 Dodge disc, Neon Flywheel
    Polyuerathane motor mounts (sides)
    solid roll stop (front) Energy suspension filled with pl-400 (rear)

    Engine Modifications
    JE 12.1CR pistons
    Crower 3 cams
    Stainless valves
    .020 off head
    5 angle valve job
    AMM port and polish (intake and exhaust)
    MLS Head gasket
    Of course, full rebuild on bearing etc. (stock)
    PT Cruiser lifters and rockers
    Eagle rods

    Outside:
    AF/X pulley
    MSnS
    Mustang 450cc injectors
    Mustang 65 mm TB
    AMM Intake
    AEM adj. cam gears
    Mark Peachy air horn intake
    Catch can
    Mark Peachy LTH
    2.5 modified downpipe back exhaust
    No power steering /AC
    Honda “race” radiator
    Snowmobile battery
    Summit heat wrap

    Chassis Modification
    Teins and ad.j KYB’s (1.8 drop) in front
    Stock springs adj. KYB in back
    Upper strut bar

    Interior Modifications
    Remove passenger air bag; replace with modified sheetmetal gauge panel
    Remove rear seat
    Remove passenger seat
    Remove carpet
    Gut door

    Exterior Modifications
    Remove wing
    Lexan rear window
    Carbon fiber hood
    Fiberglass hatch
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  15. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Sorry about the torque, I meant to type 187.6. Nut nonetheless, the horsepower is correct.
    I have attached the stock specs below. That is only +68 more horsepower. For whatever reason that sounds so impossible to you; not to mention you are tuners, so then you should know with a little (or alot) tweaking anything is possible.

    And the only things my DSM profile lacks is my sparking system and oil system.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 693  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
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  16. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    I'm 100% sure that you meant with tons of psi, but I'm just saying It's very well possibly to do over a period of time and multiple hands on deck.
     

    Attached Files:

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
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    70  1

    2012 Murray Explorer Dune
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    DSM B likes this.
  17. ChessmoDSM

    ChessmoDSM Supporting VIP

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    Do you have Dyno results to prove the HP you are putting out? Like others I am very skeptical..
     
  18. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    The problem with the 420a is that bolt ons really don't do much for the motor. For whatever reason, Honda motors do very well with bolt ons and see good gains. The 420a doesn't respond as well, that's why most of us turbo them. With a built borrom end they take boost very well and make good power.

    Regardless, I really don't care what the car does or doesn't make for HP. To answer your question, you first need to find out IF you are running out of fuel by logging the AFR at WOT with a wideband. And then checking your injector duty cycle to see if you have any room to add fuel (ONLY IF the AFR is not where it should be).

    Just throwing in larger injectors is not the right thing to do.
     
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  19. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Thank you for being specific. That's pretty much all I needed to know, and I wasn't trying to cause any problems. I try to be very helpful on this site and I have made may friends doing so, so lets just keep it that way. Doubt me if you want, and with reason. But I know what I know and it matters to me.
     

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  20. dustyboner

    dustyboner DSM Wiseman

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    the reason its hard to believe your putting down that much power is because, going of your mod list, your on a stock ecu.
    Since everyone knows that bullettdsm is a top expert of this subject so here is a
    quote from bullettdsm
    Also your mod list has listed:
    - Summit Racing headers
    - Summit Racing 272/272 cams

    Summit doesn't sell either one of these parts. Summit doesn't sell any 2g cams. They also don't sell any header for the 420a eclipse.
    I have never seen or heard of 272/272 cams for a 420a. 272s are a 4g63 cam.
    Even with a custom grind 272 for the 420a, chances are you would need a standalone ecu for the car to run right.
     
    Mello likes this.
  21. dustyboner

    dustyboner DSM Wiseman

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    not that it really matters but that should be more like +90

    import tuner did some dyno testing, stock = 113 whp
    with an intake, exhaust, header and a tune up = 119 whp
     
  22. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Back when we rebuilt my then friends 98 gs, we took it to my dyno class, and managed to out down 150hp at the wheels. It had an intake, header and exhaust, but was otherwise a stock rebuild.

    I'm still skeptical of that hp number, because the car was slow as dirt, when it was bone stock it was a quicker car. If you've had it dyno'd, it's possible the dyno did not have the correction done, or it wasn't calibrated. Either way, I'd recommend getting a wideband first, then an engine management system so you can effectively take advantage of your modifications.
     

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  23. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Hey don't forget the 800 watt JBL amp, all the speakers as well as the R Racing sterring wheel cover or the shift knob. Reading through this thread & the 420A max hp thread questions & statements leaves with a question out of curiousity for myself. You didn't include it in your profile but if you don't mind, how old are you @BLACK'98DSM?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  24. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcs-mhc4001/overview/year/1998/make/mitsubishi/model/eclipse
    I don't want to continue arguing, but there they are.
     

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