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In case not everyone has seen the Evo concept abomination

Posted by motomattx, Nov 24, 2019

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  1. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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  2. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Ya know Matt, I've been wondering about more AWD Electric vehicles.....BUT I am not enthused about that model, because of the name. DON'T name it a e-EVO......
    Just my opinion tho.
    Thanks for the glimpse.
     

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  3. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    Ugliest car of the year candidate along with Tesla’s pick up.

    Yeah Marty! Don’t throw evo in there. What are they thinking???
     

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  4. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    I can see that these electric car manufacturers are trying to shove their electric car dream/agenda down the American public's throat, they just seem to not want to take no for an answer so they are going with force, we don't want them, we like the feel, sound, predictability of internal combustion engines, we like them, leave us alone. The profit margin is much much greater on the electric cars so I understand their desire to push them, but again the consumer will decide if they fly or not, I would suggest that they come up with alternative liquid fuels such as E85 instead, also we simply dont have the infrastructure for electric cars at this time, and may never, look at the brown outs we have in the summer just from air conditioners in houses, how would that increase if we all had to pull 5000 watts or so just to charge our cars all at 5:30-6:00 when we got home from work? the battery technology is also years away, who wants to spend four days to make a 1500 mile trip to Florida because they have to stop for six hours every 300 miles to charge a car? how about 10k or so for a new battery pack when it goes bad in five years? nah, dont sound like me.
     

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  5. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Luckily there are also rumblings of an actual Evo 11 (not some SUV nightmare as shown above) based on the Renault Megane platform.
     

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  6. SixBolt_16G

    SixBolt_16G Proven Member

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    ***sigh*** Mitsubishi... the legacy destroyer....
     

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  7. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    How about the Mustang Mach "E" LOL. I'm just waiting for the Corvette Z0E.
     

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  8. Bleakley

    Bleakley Proven Member

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    I watched a few interviews and podcasts over the years.
    On the JRE with Elon, the one thing I did like is electric cars being charged with solar power.

    I wish there was another way to harness solar energy. But right now it’s panels, batteries, and all that jazz. A lot of electric cars right now are being charged by plugging it into a receptacle in the house (which is having energy supplied to it from any number of places). The thought of one day down the road using the sun (which should be relatively free) to fill up my car sounds pretty sweet. —> And I think that’s the goal / vision some of the manufacturers have in mind.
    but I’m in agreement, big time. The supporting hardware is not correct. The batteries are too big, and they don’t last long enough. It’s ridiculous.

    Note, an all electric vehicle (DC motors), is VERY easy to be controlled and can make changes faster than some of you can imagine. With 5G and electric vehicles, there is a LOT of potential to make the world a much safer place. I sat through a presentation where putting the two together can help with traffic as well. “Utilizing existing infrastructure much more efficiently.”


    I’m on board with the idea, and some of the end goals. But at this point in time. It’s a hell no from me man. Technology has to come further than what it is right now for me to switch over. Not a fan.
     

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  9. Jon Aguilar

    Jon Aguilar Probationary Member

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    How you post on this?
     
  10. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    What do you mean?
     

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  11. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Okay look, no offense to anyone, I am not trying to start a fight, but WTF are you talking about??? Profit margins are WAY worse on electric cars (many aren't profitable AT ALL). At least according to all of the data I have seen. Where are you getting this "much much" sh**? Please feel free to refute this with some facts.

    It's also wrong to say Americans don't want electric cars. Tesla (edit) received pre-orders for 150k units in 2 days in spite of the fact that it's the ugliest vehicle ever made. People obviously DO want them. Dont lump me or anyone else into your opinions. Feel free to rant about how you feel, but I personally would love an electric vehicle in my collection. Instead I settled for a hybrid.

    I get that you dont, and I agree that calling it an evo is dumb, but electric cars are here to stay. You should embrace it... they are faster than your internal combustion engine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019

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  12. techboy

    techboy Proven Member

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    Sometimes I wonder if Mitsubishi is trying to purposely put themselves out of the car market. :toobad:
     

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  13. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    I wont bother to respond to the obvious trolling parts of this but to use Tesla as an example for electric car sales? you do realize that they are on the verge of bankruptcy right? LOL they sold 150k units because 150k people had standing orders from five years ago for that car and they finally filled them, that's likely the only amount that they will sell once these customers actually get seat time in one, they are junk, I know several people that have had them, one returned it for his money back, his electric bill increased enough that it was costing him more to operate the Tesla than his past car did, he went back to a conventional engine car. Profit margins are MUCH better with electric cars, maybe not when your only selling 10 of them, but with what they have planned (complete runs of them) the cost will come down to very little money spent to build them, this has been discussed a ton locally as one of our local plants got bought by an electric truck company and the ceo has been on the radio and tv daily explaining how the electric vehicles will cost very little to make and maintain (warranty) for the company if it gets off the ground, they will also produce batteries on site, saving even more on production, however they first have to find buyers of the trucks as of now nobody has signed up to purchase any of these fleet vehicles and consumer pick em up trucks...again, nobody wants them, so if Tesla is the only all electric car company out there and everybody wants an electric car, then why then are they going bankrupt???:aha:if electric cars are the future and wanted by consumers, why did GM kill off the only electric car that they had in the lineup, the Volt???:idontknow:ever hear the old saying "put your money where your mouth is"? people vote with their wallet, and the people have spoken on this issue:


    https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1120090_gm-to-kill-chevy-volt-production-in-2019

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/17/18629166/elon-musk-tesla-money-changes-cfo-employee-expenses

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ng-solarcity-workers-helped-tesla-stay-afloat

    https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-tesla-verge-bankrtuptcy-vilas-capital/
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019

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  14. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    Powerful JRE!!
     

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  15. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    I don’t see how Mitsubishi will compete in today’s market. No dealerships by me (can’t even tell you where the closest one is) and sure as hell don’t see anyone driving their new cars.
     

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  16. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Okay so that giant mess of a rant was anecdotal... at best.
    The industry is hoping for equal profit margins to IC cars by 2025. Right now many EVs are losing money on every unit. They would not bother do this if consumer demand was not forcing their hand.
    https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...-insights/making-electric-vehicles-profitable

    Tesla is not profitable, that is very true. They have had one profitable quarter in their existence (from memory). That doesn't change the fact that people want them, to the tune of 150k units (in spite of looking hideous). I wont pretend to understand the dynamics of a company like that or judge their choices to reinvest their revenue. They have been "on the verge" of bankruptcy since they were established. I don't understand it, but its happening either way.

    Every major automaker is investing in EV tech. They have "put their money where their mouth is" to the tune of $100 billion of R&D annually. The number of electric vehicle models has increased from 5 in 2011 to 40 in 2018. You really think people dont want them? You sound emotionally invested, so I will not argue. There is no accounting for emotion.

    https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_EV_surge_US_cities_20190610.pdf
     

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  17. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Just so we are clear, "Pre-ordering" a Tesla truck requires nothing more than a refundable $100 deposit. I'm not saying that the pre orders won't turn into sales. But saying they've "sold" 150k units is a bit disingenuous.
     

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  18. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    100% Fair!
     

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  19. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    I have wondered why electric car companies can't put a simple tire driven generator on the vehicle to keep the charge up or extend the run time.
    Hell when I was a wee little boy, I had a tire operated generator on my bicycle and it ran the head and tails lights and back then (the 60s) they were incandescent bulbs not even LED's.
    Just something I've always wondered about. Couldn't such a device charge the battery as you drove it....IDK, I'm old and full of stupid ideas. Just sayin.
     

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  20. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    There are losses converting from electrical potential energy to kinetic potential energy (to get you moving). Then more losses converting from kPE to ePE (to charge the battery). I can't imagine it would be a net positive, but that is just a guess, I haven't really ever thought too much about this... It is a valid question...
     

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  21. FireyIce01

    FireyIce01 Proven Member

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    This thread has a lot of emotion, but the one thing that I think is being missed is that we're a unique market segment. Car enthusiasts are not in the majority, and a lot of people don't really give a sh** what powers their car, as long as when they get in and turn it on, it takes them where they want to go. As for the infrastructure, while I agree that our power grid needs work (especially what with PG&E neglecting their sh** for decades in favor of higher profit margins) the fact is that there is distributed power infrastructure to every corner of the country, and if you can run an electric dryer, you can charge your car. Most electric cars come with some way to control when they charge, and many power companies are giving incentives to charge in the wee hours of the night. So the infrastructure for most of people's daily needs (for commuting in particular) are already handled. The infrastructure we need now is for road trips... And that's coming along, especially what with VW investing millions into the infrastructure to make up for their emissions scandal. With a proper Level3 charging infrastructure, you'd need an hour every 300 miles, and honestly dude, I need to get up and stretch my legs if I've been driving that long. Sure, an hour is a bit longer than the 5 minutes it takes to fill up the gas tank, but this is a fringe case, as most people aren't driving across country every day.

    Electric cars are not terribly profitable, primarily because of the cost of batteries, but they have WAY LESS moving parts, and far less precise manufacturing requirements than a modern ICE, and once the price of batteries goes down (it has already started to), that will change in their favor.

    @motomattx you're mistaken about GM though, the Volt was never all electric, and has never been GM's only electric model - they had the Spark EV, and now offer the Bolt EV. According to the Chevrolet website, you can buy both the Volt or the Bolt right now - they killed off the Spark EV, but at 85 miles of range, it was never more than a test platform for their various tech and possibly a in-town commuter for people that don't drive far.

    As a disclaimer, I had a Spark EV for 3 years (lease) and commuted 50 miles round trip every day in it. That same 50 miles was costing me $300/month in my GSX for gas, and my power bill only went up $30 a month when I started running the car. In the end, the lease and electricity put me at the same cost as putting gas in the GSX. At the end of the lease, I ordered a fully loaded Bolt, and have been happly commuting in that for almost 3 more years now (my lease ends in March)

    What I can tell you is that for the average person, this is the future. No oil changes, no oil or transmission filters to replace, the only real maintenance is to rotate the tires every 7500 miles and replace as needed. And I can't tell you how nice it is to not have to pump gas all the time. You get home, and plug it in, it's full in the morning. I still have my truck, so I still have to get gas in that, but most days I can just drive right on by...

    I can also tell you it's BORING to drive. Like, yea, it's quick, and it accelerates right now. But it doesn't have that growl and the rumble of a WOT pull in a performance vehicle.It just doesn't invoke the emotion that rowing through the gears in my GSX did, and it just doesn't make me smile uncontrollably when I punch it.
     

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  22. FireyIce01

    FireyIce01 Proven Member

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    Basically what you're describing is a perpetual motion machine. Physics says these are impossible. What most electric drive cars do have though is regenerative breaking - when you let off the accelerator, or press the brakes, depending on the mode (I like driving in "L" which is akin to 1 pedal driving, where letting off the accelerator automatically starts slowing the car down, "D" is more like a standard car where letting off just allows you to coast) the generator kicks in and starts recharging the battery while slowing you down. I actually get better range in stop and go traffic than I do on the freeway, which is unique to electric cars because when you press the brakes on a standard car, you are just generating heat. The closest thing to what you describe would be some type of plug-in electric hybrid - Chevy is the only one that did this very well, with the Volt, but it's still far more complicated than it needs to be - I think BMW also did it with their i3 "rex" (Range EXtended) where it's got a gas engine that will kick in for charging.

    Solar panels don't generate enough power per square foot to be viable on a vehicle. Good battery technology is the answer for most people, with Hydrogen fuel cells as a possible alternative for long-haul driving, but honestly, H2 is a really inefficient solution, and most H2 is made from cracking petroleum hydrocarbons, so not even "green"
     

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  23. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Need more researchers like this year's winner of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry... (Go BU Bearcats!)
     

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  24. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Which is the part that you are big time discounting here! people do care about what powers their car in the USA, you cant compare us to other countries, we are in love with our automobiles, and we do like driving them and we do like the sound and feel of the power of engines, that will not change, that I guarantee you, people will not be sold a bill of goods on something that they dont want, period...Obamacare is a prime example of that. Bolt, Volt, whatever the heck it was called its dead as of 2019. yes you can buy a leftover but production is dead on them bud, they dont sell, you can also buy a new Cruize, its also a dead man walking, out of production as of 2019, plant closed and officially sold, not coming back, nor is the Volt, the cars didn't sell aka little demand for them.

    What I can tell you (as a person who has spent the time in the automotive field/dealerships) is that the actual future is alternative fuel internal combustion engines and additional emissions equipment to clean up cars even further, the manufacturer's have invested the money there, and will continue to invest in it for the rest of your life, if you or anyone else thinks for one second that big oil is ever going to allow electric cars to put them out of business...LOL you must be in middle school or high school and indoctrinated by the system still, you need to come out here in the real world and understand how things work. All of the billions of dollars that we are currently investing in fracking and pipelines? do you think that oil companies and the government are doing that for nothing? are you kidding? dinosaurs will continue to be burnt the rest of your years my friends, sleep well in that knowlege.
     

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  25. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    And we have a winner ding, ding ding, those 150k cars that were ordered five years ago were ordered with $100 down and with the intention to SELL them should they catch on and be in demand, people weren't buying them to own, only to control the stock in one or several of them, well guess what? they didn't catch on and no one wants them yet Tesla owes those people an option on a car now because people are calling their debts as they see Tesla dying, it was nothing more than a fund raising pyramid scheme by Musk to raise some quick revenue thinking (as an arrogant person that he is) that he would be rolling in the dough by now, sadly for him the people have spoken and he's about washed up, his company is hemorrhaging/burning through money faster than the fires in Paradise Califonia burnt through towns.
     

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