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I'm sick of this junk!

Posted by NewTurboTuner, Apr 11, 2007

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  1. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

    385
    19
    Joined Jul 21, 2006
    Rslv, Arkansas
    Why did the points system change again?

    Is dsmtuners going to delete the inaccurate points system info and stickies that have been left up for everyone to read??? ....I go to one place and read about points, and it tells me one thing. Then I go to another room and read a different sticky about points, and it tells me something different. I don't get how the DSMtuners MODs can be soooo preachy and uptight about accurate info, and they don't even follow their own rules. :notgood:

    By the new "MODs decide all" points system.... I can't even give thanks to someone who has helped me now??? I have to suggest that I would like to give thanks to a person who has given me good advice ....Only to hope a MOD will take notice of my suggestion, AND only then the MOD will decide for ME, if that person is worthy of 'MY' gratitude and points??? That is some real Dictator BS. It's like I'm trapped in the SoupNazi episode on Seinfeld ...except that was a comedy skit, and the dsmtuner MODs are doing it for real.

    Why cant 'I' decide, who deserves 'MY' points, for giving 'ME' good advice?

    Why do the MODs get to decide for 'ME', who the people are that deserves 'MY' thanks????

    The Point system is all I (and every member) have for promotion, and demotion. And YUP, only the All deciding MODs get to make Judgment on that now. :notgood:

    I don't understand why the people that run this site, think they need to have their hands on everything, being in charge of others decisions, opinions, and gratitude. It is really frustrating to alot of site members. I know some very knowledgeable people (whom this site would greatly benefit from) who are gone for good, because of the SoupNazi style of Moderation on these boards.:notgood:

    I also see bad Moderation going on, and by DSMtuner's "MODs decide all" points system it is impossible to take any action against unfair MODs. ((Again all we the members have is our points for promotion, and demotion)) And by the MODs decide all points system it is impossible to get action taken against another MOD for being unfair ....because you guys are all buddy buddy, and wont give infractions to each other :notgood:

    I get a infraction (with no warning) for "Flaming, insults, etc." when I wasn't doing anything but being sarcastic with a friend. But I see post by MODs where they're really being d1cks to members ...the member has to just take it, and the MOD doesn't get any demotion at all, because you guys don't have the guts to demote each other. (Either that or you just don't want to demote your fellow MOD friends):notgood:

    I have been nothing but nice on this forum, and I follow the rules. I'm sick of seeing MODs not following the same rules they give infractions for. I have always felt this way, but the recent unfair infraction that I received has made me come out with this, and I just can't hold it in anymore ((oh of course I can't get a explanation or response from the guy that gave me the infraction, which tells me he just don't care)) :notgood:

    I'm sure I'll get crap from this post. The MODs will give me a infraction, or basically say the usual.... "If you don't like it, leave". Well If the people that represent dsmtuners keeps with that attitude... people ARE going to start leaving, and yes Chris, the site will turn into DSM.org because you won't be getting paid and you'll stop working for it. (If money is the only thing that gets your attention then remember that the Venders are ONLY here because of the Members. Not because of the Moderators ...Loose your Members, and you'll loose the Venders.

    Don't ask me to give examples of what I'm talking about. I'm not going to waste my time pointing out things to a MOD, that is their job to find, see, and take care of. You can easily find the things I'm talking about if you want to see it.

    If DSMtuners is going to be a business that brings in money .....I'd like to see some Professionalism! The MODS should follow site rules .....I don't think that is too much for dsmtuner members to ask for
     

    856  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  2. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,626
    950
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    On the point system, simply put - because we tried trusting the members to use the system correctly and it backfired on us. We had people swapping points just to stack up false point counts and others registering new names to swap points between their accounts. And we couldn't stop it from happening. And since the points were impacting members' status I didn't want to leave that in the hands of people I didn't know or trust. That's why only Moderators and Wisemen (proven leaders of the site) can now give points.

    If you've found outdated text about the point system, please point it out to me. I've tried to update it everywhere I could. I'm sure I could have missed some.

    Now, you're also stating that the Moderators are not following the same rules as everyone else - as I've stated before, everyone is to PM myself or John (L2RTSiAWD) with rule violations by Moderators. Everyone is held to the same standard here - ask the Moderators, they'll tell you how frustrated they get because I don't allow verbal lashings like other sites. And they should not be using the attitude of "if you don't like it, leave". PM me any time you see that and I'll take care of it.

    This is a big site with over a million posts. I'll need some examples PM'd to me as I can spend weeks trying to find what you're talking about and still not come across it.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  3. oldman

    oldman DSM Wiseman

    9,203
    189
    Joined Jun 21, 2003
    Dayton, New Jersey
    Chris has gotten the reputation part of your post covered, and I'll cover the other half since I was the MOD who handed you the infraction and most of your claims against me are untrue and unfair.

    1.
    Your post was reported by another member, post #42 in this thread was what you were warned for, as you can clearly read for yourself, the person your out of line comment was directed to was not your friend, you may have become friends after fact but certainly not at the time when you made the comment.

    2. In post #47 of the same thread you wrote,
    this is also not true, no reputation points were ever taken from you.

    3.
    The only thing you wrote to me in response to your infraction was "no way", no explaination that the person was your friend and you were just kidding, no demand of an expenation from me.....nothing. I always try to return all my PMs, even negative ones, many who I have warned in the past can attest to that, this one I simply see that there was no need since you couldn't even put in the time and effort to articulate what your complaint really was.

    4.
    Again, not true. In case if you don't know, all infractions handed out by any MOD are logged where every MOD, including Chris and John, can read and comment on, I will copy and paste my comment that was sent to you along with the infraction.

    You're right that MODs and wisemen, especially MODS, should follow forum rules even more so than members as we are suppose to set examples for the rest of the forum. If any of us break the rules, send the link to Chris or John and it will be addressed accordingly. However, one should take great care with facts and fairness when making such a complaint, especially in public, so that there is credibility behind your claim/concern and can be taken seriously.
     
  4. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    I don't want you to think I'm complianing Chris because I really don't care that much about how many little green dots are beside my name and for the most part really like the way the site has been run. So thank you, but...

    It is nice to know when your help or advice has been appreciated by another member, the new system discourages that feedback. So you see, the new system does have its own set of issues too. I have a suggestion however, that could help with the multiple accounts problem, maybe...

    Make every new member register their VIN, and ask current members to add their VIN to a database that only the Moderators can view. Anytime there is a conflict or the car is sold and the new owner wants to register, make the member/applicant provide a scanned copy or picture of their insurance card. I understand that this could be a little bit of a headache for you, but I doubt there is a large number of people who'd try to falsify a new account if they had to go through this.

    I'm also aware the points might still be traded by friends, so maybe the software could limit the frequency of rep addition so that a member could not give points to anyone who gave them points for at least 8 weeks, or give the same member points more than 1 time every 2 months. Anytime the time limit disallowed valid rep to be given, a member could offer up the thread or post the same way they do now, for moderator review.

    Just some offhand suggestions, I don't mind the current state of the system at all, -but what do you think of my ideas?
     

    2K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  5. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,626
    950
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Zack I like your ideas but it will require heavy work on our part to make the VIN idea and the points abuse solution work correctly. Moderators already have enough to deal with and I can't ask them to verify VIN numbers and make sure the reputation points system isn't being abused. Their time will be better spent resolving issues in the forums and handing out rep points to those who show that they want to contribute to the site in a positive way.

    I do appreciate the thought you put into it though. Believe me, I've put so much thought into it that my head hurts. Only to see the system abused. I was very disappointed to have to make the changes I did, realizing that people didn't really respect the work I had put into the planning of the system as they abused it. That's life though.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  6. knighteclipse1

    knighteclipse1 Proven Member

    480
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    Joined Jun 13, 2005
    white hall, Arkansas
    ^^^In regards to the above suggestion, what about tracking the IP address of the member everytime they log in? So if they try to log in as a new member and try to add rep points to a friend or to their other member identity. it would automatically be brought to the attention of the Mod's and the rep points given taken away and the member banned. Also, it would be nice to be able to give rep points if you've been an active member for a specific period of time (when I say active, I also mean productive and helpful member) This might make the interaction between the mod's and regular members run alittle smoother. I am sure all the Mod's and you Chris are tired of hearing this same subject rear its ugly head.
    Maybe trying something different might be alittle refreshing around here. And show the members that have complaints that you are making an attempt to understand where they are coming from. If it doesn't work out, you can always go back to the current system. In my profession it is said that for every 1 customer that complains about something, there are at least 10-20 that have complaints, but don't say anything, they just quit fequenting your business and take their business elsewhere. Thats just food for thought. That all being said, I personally have no problem with whatever you do or decide. Just suggestions.
     

    348  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  7. DRated

    DRated Proven Member

    197
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    Joined Jan 4, 2007
    Portland, Oregon

    That'd be nice, but it wouldn't take very much to change IP addresses. You could also, firewall your address and etc.. There's many ways around that.

    As far as registering and people cheating the system... there's always going to be the people doing that... no matter what system is in place. The moderaters seems to be doing an ok job at policing the Dsmtuners site. I think the rep/feedback system is nice when you want to leave feedback/comment for a person who did something influential.

    Of course, abuse of the system stinks. And with that, if Luda wants to change the board, for what he thinks is better, lets hear him out and try the new way. Human way is to always evolve....

    Just my .02 cents.

    D.Rated.
     
  8. Locke

    Locke N/T DSM Wiseman

    2,683
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    Joined Jan 1, 2005
    Houston, Texas
    I think it is fine the way it is. Besides, I would rather get rep from a wiseman or moderator than some joker. Makes me feel 'noticed', 'valued', and other such less-than-manly things. :shhh:
     

    857  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. hereitcomes

    hereitcomes Awaiting Email Verification

    866
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    Joined Apr 9, 2005
    Wauwatosa, Wisconsin
    Ya. Its been a while since ive gotten any points because the mods are so busy with their own lives. I try my best though. Hopefully Ill get some more points soon. Thanks DSM staff.
     
  10. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    If you want to thank the 'help' just say thank you. Even a PM would be nice to those who've helped you. It's like a little thank you e-card:thumb: .

    I like the MODs deciding who gets points and who doesn't. Just because what I say may sound correct, be well organized in content, and or appeal to reason; doesn't mean it IS correct. 99% of us mean well. So, we all TRY to hand out correct info. But, it is not always the case. And passing the info over a Mod's "desk" keeps the info accurate to some degree. This insures that reputation is built on ones accurate knowledge.

    However, I think the setup has swung a little too far for the sake of simplicity. Simplifying this proccess could enhance our desire to give rep points. A simple button, like before, perhaps could be re-incorporated into the thread screen. But, instead of just awarding points, the points recommendation data goes before a Moderator to review and do all things being done so far. This would no doubt increase reputation point "traffic" (busy you guys more). But, maybe increasing traffic is a good thing. Tracking high volumes of mis-information and hearsay and perhaps squashing it would be a Forum Owners dream, right? All get the opportunity to thank their helpers and all the thank-yous get screened.

    Another suggestion for the site owner: all can add "neutral points" and comments even though they are thank-yous. This gives all the opportunity to say, 'Look I'd like to recognize you'. As such comments go across the MOD's desk, it would be up to he or she to decide if the comment merits being credited to a persons reputation. This would be much like the way newbies were handled when giving out rep points w/ the old system. But. now everyone is a 'newbie'.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  11. TalonTsi31

    TalonTsi31 Proven Member

    254
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    Joined Jan 2, 2007
    Sunbury, Ohio
    i agree whenever i get help from some one if they have 3-4 green points next to there name i know to trust them since it was oked by a mod. if it was just done by the members that person could know nothing and just got all of those from a friend. this is just a better way to ensure the points are valid. keep up the good work chris and i love the site!:thumb:
     

    339  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 2G DSM
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  12. srtkiller

    srtkiller Proven Member

    107
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    Joined Feb 6, 2007
    Mesa, Arizona
    Honestly, I think instead of picking one thing to complain about everyone on this site should just be thankful it's here. I have been to lots of differant forums for differant vehicles I've owned including my DSM and some are good but most are not helpful at all. What I'm getting at is this site has lot's of very reliable information because there are Mods doing there best to recognize the good and the bad to ensure you the best FREE information possible. I know when I have a question or a problem I can turn to this site and 99% of the time find the right answer. So, quit bitching and enjoy what we have. Thank you Chris for a great site keep up the great work.
     
  13. L2RTSiAWD

    L2RTSiAWD Honorary Moderator

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    Joined Apr 8, 2002
    Chandler, Arizona
    The problem is all 40,000 people want the site to run they way THEY think it should be run.

    There is a difference between a thought out request and whining/complaining.
     
  14. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

    385
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    Joined Jul 21, 2006
    Rslv, Arkansas
    Come on I don't have a reason to just make this up. I wouldn't waste my time.

    I tried not to call out names, because this isn't about getting anyone in trouble. Its about making the prob known so that hopefully the powers that be will start to do more about it.

    I'll point this out as an example because I feel my credibility is under fire. Its a good example of the non-sense that I'm talking about and I found this without even trying... I didn't even have to leave the feedback area.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257883
    Post #3. That 2nd MODs comment is Completely Unnecessary. The 1st MOD handle the post just fine.... Yet the 2nd MOD is allowed to come in and just badger the guy for no reason! The guy had a legit gripe, and yet he's being joked on by a MOD (5-6 lines worth) and in the end is told to "find something worth crying about". And the thread is locked so no body can respond to it.
    ........I found that post without even trying, so don't try to make it out like I am making things up.

    Did that MOD get a infraction for that?

    IT is not fair to ask your members to police the site for you. That is what the MODs are for. I don't want to spend my time sending messages to MODs about problems the site is having with members, jokes, sarcasm, insults, or bad Moderation. Its not my job to police dumb people. (I Especially feel that way since you took away everyone's privileges to give good marks to good people)

    I don't want this to be a back and forth pissing match. Like I said I'm not voicing this to get any particular person in trouble. I always got the feeling that this was a very strictly run site, and I can respect that. People may consider me a Jokester, but I try to keep things clean, because I respect rules ......But Its damn frustrating to me to get a infraction for something I have seen (A joke or sarcasm) MODs do since the 1st time I surfed this site. I'm fine with rules, but I'm Not cool with double standards, or lop sided views.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    OldMan
    OldMan, this post IS NOT about you. This is not about any person in particular. This is about all the little BS that goes on, and it adds up to alot of frustration. The infraction that was sent to me IS what got me thinking "I'm tired of this crap". I do think it was a stupid infraction that I should not have gotten, and it is one of the things I'm frustrated about, but the whole thing isn't about you ...just the infraction part... which was very small in comparison to everything that was written.

    I might have gotten reported. It wouldn't surprise me though, because most of my friends are goofballs and pranks are played from time to time. I did think you took points away... I thought that's how the system works (plus points, or negative points) but if I'm mistaken then sorry. Why are you trying to make a case against me? It seems like your trying to degrade my credibility with your little research project ...You only post points in your favor? ...How about post #46, or #60?

    Yeah, "No Way" did I deserve it. It was a goof. It's obvious that I didn't agree with the infraction .....Did you think I sent a message to you because I agreed with the infraction and it was my way of saying thanks? (You're a smart guy. I know I don't need to spell everything out for you. Don't try to play dumb. You know what I was getting at)

    I just don't feel like it was a fair infraction especially considering I didnt do anything worse than what I have seen MODs do. If you do think I deserved it, then OK, but make sure you give the same Infraction to others (including MODs) who deserve it, REGARDLESS if anyone has "reported" them, or not.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ~About the points system~
    Yeah there are always going to be hackers and cheaters, but most people are good. Why take away everyone's right to give points, when only a small few are mis-using the system? Make a no tolerance rule, and make it know... If you abuse the system, your profile will be deleted, and IP banned.

    I would really like to see the members points system come back. Its a good incentive for people to help, and it gives a better sense of community when you give people privileges like that. It's the members who contribute most to this site... how about show them some trust and give us back our right to praise the ones who help. The way it happens now, people don't get enough credit for the good things they do. Also if you gave points back to the people, It will free up time from the MODs, who can use that time to police the people who need it.



    Thanks
     

    856  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  15. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

    385
    19
    Joined Jul 21, 2006
    Rslv, Arkansas
    srtkiller
    If the same BS starts happening to you then maybe you'll think differently about it :rolleyes:
    You're new here, so I wouldnt expect you to know what I was talking about.
     

    856  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  16. dwdsm

    dwdsm Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 28, 2005
    Scenery Hill, Pennsylvania
    I kinda have to agree with this part.. I've been Criticized for my own opinions when a moderator doesn't agree (which seems to be the point of this site) and even putting too many periods at the end of my sentences.

    On another note, members shouldn't care so much about little green lights. Know who you are and be confident about yourself...Opinions can never be wrong, just disagreed with. I appreciate all the work the Moderators put into this site and I take it for what it's worth to me. I suggest everyone else does the same and stops getting so worked up..This is a hobby and it is supposed to be fun.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.797 @ 118.450 · 2G DSM
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  17. srtkiller

    srtkiller Proven Member

    107
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    Joined Feb 6, 2007
    Mesa, Arizona
    NewTurboTuner, I wasn't taking a shot at you for your original post so I apologize if it came across that way. I agree with what you are upset about and I have seen the posts you are talking about so I do agree with you. Sorry for the misunderstanding
     
  18. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

    385
    19
    Joined Jul 21, 2006
    Rslv, Arkansas
    Well I saw this....
    "quit bitching and enjoy what we have."

    Just please understand I'm not in the best mood, so when I see "quit bi***" It dosent make me feel any better. Also I DO appreciate what we have. It's just that when a water pot is set to fire, it can only take so much heat until it HAS to release steam. I just felt like I've seen enough crap, that I couldnt hold it in anymore ....had to release some steam



    Thanks
     

    856  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  19. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,626
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    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    I asked for you to PM me the examples, not post them here for everyone to see. And I didn't see anyone saying you were making anything up. Just FYI, the warning system is completely separate from the reputation points system. Just because you receive warnings doesn't mean you get rep points taken away.

    And just because you don't think you deserved a warning/infraction because you've seen Mods act the same way doesn't mean it's right. You don't know if the Mods were contacted for the way they acted, and yes, that does happen sometimes. The point is this, you should be following the rules and make sure your posts stay within the spirit of the site. Don't post anything that could be taken the wrong way or that could be seen as a rule violation and you'll never receive a warning.

    Maybe I'll look into the reputation points system once again when I have a free minute.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  20. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Because the few who abuse the system then have inflated point counts and the whole system's credibility is lost. It makes it worthless.
    We did that but we don't have the resources to constantly monitor thousands of members who are giving and receiving reputation points. It took me several days to go through and remove points for about 10-20 abusers back when we realized it was becoming a problem. I'm sure there were hundreds of other abusers I didn't find. And just because you ban someone doesn't mean they can't get around an IP ban to come back and cause more trouble, believe me.

    You see, there is no easy answer here. The most logical thing to do was what we did. Once I went through and deleted all the fraudulent points and banned a couple people I turned off everyones' ability to give points except the Wisemen and Mods. The Wisemen don't police the forums like the Mods do so they have a little more time to give out points to those who deserve it.

    Again, maybe I'll check into the system to find a way to allow members to reward other members in a way that won't have an effect on ones' membership status.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  21. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,626
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    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Actually, that's exactly what we do. Our members do police the site, they just have a "Moderator" title under their name. There is no difference between them and you aside from the fact that they asked if they could help us keep order in the forums so we gave them the tools to do so.

    And why is it their job and not yours? This is a community that we're all responsible for. How are you going to criticize a Moderator for doing something wrong when you're not willing to lift a finger to help out on your end? They do it because they care about our community and want to see it grow, and they don't get paid for it. In fact, their only payback is a few "thank you's" and a heavy dose of criticism from people who think they're doing a crappy job but don't want to lend a hand to help point out the stuff that Moderators miss.

    So tell me again why you don't want to spend your time doing something that your fellow members are willing to do? Why is it their job and not yours? Because they offered to help? If they were getting paid I could understand your point of view. But they aren't, and I can't. If people want to use this site for free they should be willing to lend a hand in return, don't you think? The least they (and you) can do is report a rule violation if you come across one. It takes all of 30 seconds.

    If you want this site to be run well you have to lend a hand. It's all of our responsibility. Not just those who volunteer to do the thankless dirty work.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  22. freshlane

    freshlane Proven Member

    392
    0
    Joined Sep 4, 2006
    Windy City, Illinois
    I believe that as long as the site is functional it serves its intended purpose. I joined the site to find information on bettering my understanding of DSMs. The reputation/point system is a bonus. When I help somebody it is to reassure myself that I know what I am talking about and to research what I speak of. I know you would like credit for your hard earned work but at least you know you are a working & contributing part of this forum.
     

    440  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  23. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

    3,801
    105
    Joined Jul 16, 2004
    Orlando, Florida
    Wow... running this site is not as easy as I thought it was. Good luck Ludachris, if you need me to paypal you some money for a drink - let me know. :)
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  24. 97gstkat

    97gstkat Probationary Member

    2
    0
    Joined Nov 28, 2005
    Hagerstown, Maryland
    hun... go out for a drive (isn't that why we all own DSM's?). take a deep breath and step back. take yourself out of the picture for a moment. i hear what your saying and you have to understand that everyone else gets your point too. i dont believe anyone is attacking you personally and you need to stop taking it that way. constructive critisism is being sent both ways on this line and if your going to pass it out, you need to deal with it coming back. call me a silly girl for not "getting it" but why should anyone be so worried about their reputation anyways? isn't it your personal responsablity to give your opinion, the best answer YOU can come up with or to just bring new light to a dim issue... without becoming insulted by what other people have to say about it? maybe you should think about it more, if someone reacts harshly to what you've said then maybe they just feel insulted themselves... nothing personal. women are known to be emotional and tend to over react to things but thats because we always take things to heart. everyone does it, but instead of reacting in rage... react with intellegence and poise. as many times as it can be said, heres once more for the road... dont bring yourself down to someones level of petiness just because your mad. chris is good at what he does because instead of taking your critisism as an insult, he looks at how you feel about it, not just the bitterness you've written your post with. and before i go on with more femanine "zen" nonsense, ill end this response. just adding my view. Kat.
     

    138  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.159 @ 93.240 · 2G DSM
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  25. RonJeremY

    RonJeremY Proven Member

    24
    0
    Joined May 15, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Damn, I should stop by more often... Seriously, are "swass points" that important?

    My trans showed up today on a FedEx truck fresh from TRE, so I thought I would drop in and research clutch preferences/experiences. Instead, I get sidetracked by an episode of saved by the bell.

    Many thanks go out to all the mods/founders here for all of the great information buried under the high school drama, and for dealing with said drama on a daily basis and not getting paid for it. I am an experienced DIY mechanic, but I still need and use this site from time to time, if only to aviod taking longer than needed or, god forbid, making a mistake. Who cares about having an anarchistic points system. If I take pictures of the trans install and post them here, please give all my cool points to newturbotuner.

    Now, if I can only get 500 easy miles on the clutch/trans before the next track day on May 4th...
     
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