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2G Ideal turbo to make 600+

Posted by Brandonjffrs96, Jan 15, 2021

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  1. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    Bronson, Michigan
    Sold my fp green thinking I wanted the red/black but interested in others opinions. (Stock bore and stroke) looking to make at least 600 all wheel.

    7 bolt
    Manley tt w/ upgraded wrist pins 8.5.1
    Howard’s I beam rods
    Gsc billet stage 2 274’s camshafts
    Fidanza evo cam gears
    Tial wg 44mm
    Fp ported/coated manifold, would consider something fancy.
    A lot of other small things like gsc valves, 4” Mishimoto intercooler, custom 3” turbo back etc. thanks in advance. Also considering going with a dogbox if the power is there.

    Edit: Walbro 450, e85, fic fuel rail and 1650 high z. Have link but considering aem. Kiggly regulator and beehive high rev springs. Literally 75% or more of the parts needed. Only a year into the build so I have plenty more time and money to drop so I’ll consider all opinions.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

    Street Build 208  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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  2. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Supporting Member

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    There are so many factors for the 600 whp, the tune is big, and every build is different have you looked for any turbos yet at all, there are a few vendors to help you pick one pm justin whitesell for options on turbos as well. I have a hx40 but, someone else will run a different one with other parts.
     

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  3. 95REGF150

    95REGF150 Proven Member

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    Unless you go with a t3 or t4 manifold your turbo options for this kind of HP are pretty limited sticking with the stock Mitsu flange on your FP manifold. Its pretty much an FP turbo or HX40,etc. stuffed in a BEP housing.

    The biggest thing you didn't mention about your setup in this search for 600 HP is your intended fuel. E85 or Pump? If trying to go pump gas then that kind of HP will be hard to get no matter the turbo selection. But it certainly would eliminate anything with a smaller exhaust housing and the Mitsu flange.

    So if picking up a t3 or t4 manifold then the sky is the limit for selection. You can go PTE, Garrett, Borg, Xona, etc. any of which have many turbo's that will do the job. As far as specific selection then it really comes down to what your trying to do with the car and how high your planning to rev it. 600HP means something different for a street car turning 7500-8k for turbo selection when it comes to spool compared to trying to squeeze out all the top end power for drag racing turning 9-10k.
     

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  4. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    Yeah, Justin said not to go with the black unless I was okay with hitting boost closer to 5500rpm. He actually rebuilt the fp green that I sold off and man let me tell ya that turbo was MINT once he was done with it. Couldn’t tell it had a single install let alone miles. Anyways I was thinking the xona rotor? Red/black, hx40, or even just a big 16g/20g LOL. Now I’m pretty head strong on making at least 600 all wheel though and would consider a little spray to help boost or just deal with the lag.
     

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  5. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    I updated the post. Only e85 pumped by a walbro 450, which should be enough? I’d go with the hellcat if worth it. Kiggly beehive high rev springs. T4 fp turbo manifold.

    I really like fp and obviously borg, both are tied and true. But Garret and Xona have been calling my name.
     

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  6. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    It seems like 600whp is the new 400whp LOL, not knocking you at all because that’s the same goal I have LOL, but I would think the new fp ZERO could get you there, it’s $2300 but if that’s too pricey for you then you shouldn’t be shooting for that much horsepower, an hx40 in a bep housing has been beat to death on its reliability issues with high boost on that small of a housing, the bolt on zero is still a 62mm, 780 horsepower beast with a new 10cm housing comparible in size to a t3 .70ar. The only thing is you can’t move up from there, but on the right setup with supporting mods I’m sure the zero would be more than enough for the majority of dsm’ers
     

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  7. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    I’ve been looking into the zero a wee bit. Is it better than the black bb with the 10cm add on? I wanted to make 600 off the bat but went with the green and said I’d be happy with 450/500 so I kinda overbuilt haha. Now I’m really shooting for 650/700+ but would be happy with 600 all wheel. Only a year into the build so I have time to do plenty more I just need opinions so I can brain storm.
     

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  8. 95REGF150

    95REGF150 Proven Member

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    So I'm confused is this the standard FP race cast manifold that you were using with the Green? If so then yes it will work great with the FP Black or Zero for your goal as you guys are talking about. But it is NOT a T4 manifold it is Mitsu-flanged and will not fit any of the other turbo's such as Zona.

    And conversely if it is a T4 manifold it will not fit the Zero or Black and you should not be looking at bolt-on turbos.

    I agree with 1cleangsx about the HX40 in the .55 BEP being played out. It will make HP but has shown to have reliability issues as the small housing does not flow enough for that size turbine. So that really leaves you with only the FP Black/Zero if looking at bolt-on turbo's.

    I would go with something else if looking for 600HP. Borg S362 is the cheapest NEW choice. If you have more money to spend then by all means go Zona or Garrett they are great turbos.
     

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  9. ChessmoDSM

    ChessmoDSM Proven Member

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    Burlington, Vermont
    Just so you know, when you get up to 600+ WHP, it's not a "street car" anymore per se, it's more of a drag car.. Sure you can drive it on the street and such here and there, but it's not really a "street car" anymore, YMMV and people can correct me if I am wrong, but I think 500 HP is the sweet spot for a Street DSM and a Black or Red with the proper mods will work just fine for that goal.. :idontknow:
     

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  10. TWOpointFORliter

    TWOpointFORliter Proven Member

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    It was all the solid and poly bushings and tight suspension that makes it kinda suck to drive on the street and I won’t even mention the twin disk since not everyone drives a manual. The power levels have nothing to do with it IMO.
     

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  11. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Kind of off topic but do not forget to upgrade brakes and suspension if they’re stock.
     

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  12. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    .

    I am also looking for a new turbo for my setup. I was in the chase to hit 600whp. I maxed out my 7blade hx35. You could get to your 600 with a hx40. You could find a hx40 for cheap. I consider them one of the better budget type turbos. The new fp dsm zero or black. That's if you wanted to stay with the mitsubishi flange. If your running a t3 or t4 manifold, then your options are much larger. A few turbos that come to mind is the PTE 6262, 6266 or 6466. I am personally considering the xona rotor 7164s or 7864s. For fueling, I am running the hellcat pump without issue. The wally 525.

    Agree to disagree here. You can easily run 600-800 on the street. Run e85 for the high power and pump for less. Easily done with dsmlinks sensor. But what I can ad here is higher power setups generally don't spool at a streetable manner. But man, can I merge on the highway extremely well LOL. Holsets in my opinion is probably the largest turbo that I would run in the street. I would also run a pte 6262. My 20g setup was extremely fun on the street. It is probably my favorite street/strip setup.

    Thanks for mentioning this. Many people overlook this area of the build. Tires is another overlooked topic. Safety should be priority in high power builds.
     

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  13. Vegas Smith

    Vegas Smith Proven Member

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    Yeah but 600 is more than 500.
     

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  14. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    I was under the impression that this was a t4? I see now it’s stock mitsu flange? Still learning as you can see. With my supporting mods would you recommend balling out to get a pretty t4 manifold with a garret vs my fp ported and coated manifold with let’s say a zero?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

    Street Build 208  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 445  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  15. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    I got tein flex z’s, full bushing kit (energy) and would have evo brembos but I was dumb and got scammed on those haha. Already have drilled and slotted rotors but definitely still plan on doing a brembo swap. I’ve got cheap tires currently but plan on going back to neo gens or balling out and going with pilot sports¿
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

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  16. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    I respect that answer haha
     

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  17. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    For a serious 600+horsepower goal, ditch the DSM bolt-on idea and go T3 or v-band for sure. It'll open the door to far more turbo choices as opposed to, like, two. With the DSM Zero starting at $2300, some of your options would leave enough in the budget to nearly pay for a custom-built manifold as well.

    While there is no "ideal" turbo for 600+ as most people's opinion of what's "ideal" will vary based on price, fitment, and response...I'd have to say my favorite in the 600-700 horse range would be the HX40 just due to the versatility with all of the available OEM and aftermarket compressor options from 56mm to 67mm.
     

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  18. 95REGF150

    95REGF150 Proven Member

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    Justin, I'm currently looking to move up in turbo for a similar range to the OP. The difference being I already have a twin scroll T4 manifold.

    So I have been trying to decide between the Borg SX-E 300 series and the HX40. The Borg I can get new for really good value in a 62mm compressor and T4 flange new ready to go without any modifications.

    I'm having trouble finding something comparable in an HX40. As far as I can find you don't really buy these turbos new from Holset. So it seems like I would have to buy a used turbo and have it rebuilt along with buying a aftermarket T4 exhaust housing that would be smaller in footprint with a V-band outlet than the diesel stuff.

    So maybe I'm missing something. Whats the best way to get into a non-bolt on HX40 setup? More housings available in T3?
     

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  19. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    If you already have the T4 manifold then the S300 Borg route is the way to go. You'll spend too much time and money finding a suitable twin-scroll T4 housing and getting it machined to fit the HX40.
     

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  20. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    So I’m really thinking xona
    im really thinking about going with the zero or a xona rather than a holset tbh and Id like to go v band. if you dont mind what xona rotor would you recommend? money isnt a issue and i think we can all agree that parts arent either. thanks again
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

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  21. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    I don't know a lot about them to be honest...they change things pretty often to keep selling turbos. I have a 7864 here that's like 2 years old and it's already outdated and probably worth less than what I have invested.

    Can always machine a 6262 v-band housing to fit a HX40. :D

    12398364_10153106646872003_1144513494_o.jpg
     

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  22. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    Dude you can’t go wrong with xona, I’m leaning towards going back to a bolt on fp zero set up, or a full on vband set up. LOOK at the trap speeds of Joe Bucci and Nate Crisman on the zero. Joe is trapping mid 140’s and Nate has gone over 150mph. Sure they have purpose built Auto/nitrous drag cars, so I agree an average dsm’er won’t be running mid 9’s on the zero, but clearly on a proper setup that turbo makes POWER. You don’t need 2 $370 tial waste gates on a t4 divided set up to go fast, a .82 tial vband will outflow the bolt on 10cm, but that’s for max effort and north of 750-800whp. There’s videos of Nate’s car, AND Adriana Noonens car when she was still on the bolt on black going 8’s. I’m just saying you can compare price differences of the $2300 Zero, to say a $1000 s366, but that $1300 difference gets eatin up quick for the price of a manifold, dumptubes, wastegates, o2 housing and down pipe.
     

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  23. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    The key phrase there is "purpose-built drag car". We went 9.12 @ 158 with a cast 60mm HX40 in 2013 with less than $1000 total in the turbo, the turbine housing, and a cast ERL manifold. I don't think anyone has been able to replicate those results since.

    What a turbo *can* do doesn't really represent what a turbo *will* do for most users...and you can raise the bar as high as you want whenever spool and response leaves the battle. An auto drag car with nitrous doesn't care how laggy a given turbo may be because once it's lit it doesn't drop until you let off. The 8-second FP Black pass is definitely not a typical result as the next-fastest pass is almost an entire second slower...and I don't think the same car was able to replicate or improve on those results with a 7869S which has a bigger compressor, much bigger turbine, and way more turbine flow.


    Sure you don't need a T4 manifold and two wastegates to go fast, but you may need those parts to maximize your setup's efficiency and driveability as not everyone wants a powerband that starts at 6000 on the street. As I said above a cast race manifold, 62mm turbine, and 10cm2 single-scroll housing isn't for everyone...when we first moved up to the big T4 stuff I built a S480 that mimicked Jake Montgomery's 7-second turbo and on our car it was almost undriveable because Jake's car is an auto and ours is a manual. So in first gear it didn't even make enough boost to open the gates, in second it fell completely out of boost and took like 4 seconds to recover, then by that time the run was shot. After playing with housings and such we eventually got it to respond much better before deciding it was just entirely too big for where we want to be at the moment, but there were absolutely no plans to go back to DSM-flanged as T4 is where we need to be if we want to improve as we've already pushed T3 to the max.

    So spend the money on a manifold that can grow with you or spend it on a turbo that you may be tired of a few months down the road whether it's too small or too laggy...either way you're spending money.
     

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  24. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

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    Well said Justin, I completely agree, which is why I’m leaning towards a full Vband Xona set up I could “grow” with, or even decide to go back down in size LOL, but again it’s ultimately to each his own. I appreciate your real world experience, but again I think a lot of us on this forum have full weight street cars with modest goals of wanting to go “moderately” fast at the track and have fun on the street, and in regards to the OP’s original post stating he currently has an fp manifold, I don’t think he or any of us “normies” would be disappointed with the zero, but nonetheless your point is very valid and appreciated as always:hellyeah:
     

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  25. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

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    Thinking either hx40 with a v band housing, fp zero, or xona with a nice manifold. I’ll update once I make the purchase
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 208  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 445  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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