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1G I want AC! FMIC Ducting and Cooling / Fans

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No I haven't but I also have a quality mani and I believe that plays a big role in not cracking. But the benefits for me out weighted the chance of cracking.
FYI I've wrapped it three different times and the mani looks the same everytime I remove the old wrap.

As for the turbine blanket, they're not too bad but I did choose to go with a quality piece. This is the one I have https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=26722&cat=1006&page=1

Absolute night and day for me with and without one.
 
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I have my manifold off so its a good time to wrap it, just need some extra metal zip ties to do all four tubes plus the DP and WG. I like the blanket, I guess it is time to break out the "car money". Thanks Shane!
 
I went with the $25 amazon turbo blanket, seems to be working great so far. One review on there the guy said he could even touch it after driving... I definitely can't touch mine (a bit too hot for that) but it seems to be doing it's job.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A6F02TW/

I think I'll go for a nice one (one you can actually touch when the turbo is red hot) when I can afford it. This one is working for now though.

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I just put up a video on wrapping : D
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Got my 12" Spal installed in the car tonight. I also squeezed in a 10" cheap amazon fan on the driver side. If it melts no big loss. If it works, I'll upgrade it to a Spal as well later on. We'll see how this setup does tomorrow on my commute to work.

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I found an old post I did a while back on codsm. I went to the extreme, but it might give you a few ideas. I did ducting like you describe where I sealed as much as I could so air would go through the radiator. I believe I ended up using foam strips to seal the FMIC to the radiator support area so air wouldn't go around the radiator. I also ended up putting a plastic scoop that draws air from below the FMIC and routes it to the radiator. These things combined with a half size condensor all work in conjunction to keep temps down in the summer while still being able to enjoy A/C.

Here's the post:
http://codsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6814

Bert

Got a link to the condensor you used? Also, still got those special AC lines tools by chance? ; ) I've decided the stock routing isn't going to work for me so I'm going to do a custom AC setup as well. Also, how's yours holding up?
 
Got a link to the condensor you used? Also, still got those special AC lines tools by chance? ; ) I've decided the stock routing isn't going to work for me so I'm going to do a custom AC setup as well. Also, how's yours holding up?

Post #7 has the link to the condenser that I used. I do still have the special tools. If you decide to go the same route, you are more than welcome to borrow them.
It's been great. I do have a small leak that I have been too lazy to figure out. I'm going to try to track it down this year. I'm pretty sure it's either the AC charge port adapter or the inline filter that I plumbed in.
 
Ok, reviving this thread. When it's 95 degrees out (like today) the car is running about 215-220. I should be able to get the AC hooked back up and run it without any issues even though the car is that hot, right? Is that still within normal operating temp?
 
That's a bit hot for my liking.

Is it running that hot at cruise, or idle, or both? If I see anything over 210, I start worrying. Ideally, I like my temps under 206. Anything over that and the 1G ECU starts to pull timing.

If everything is top notch, you'll typically see temps that are around 10 degrees over whatever your T-stat is rated at. My car typically runs around 196-200 on the highway when it's 80-95 degrees out. At idle, ECMlink shows temps creep up between 200-206 before the fans kick on and pull it back down to around 200.

A good test at idle is to take the car for a drive and get it good and hot. Then, simply park it and let it idle. Jump the fan switch to ground and let the fans run continuously. If they can pull the temps down, you're good. If the temps creep up, you need more/better fans. With Spal fans, it's doesn't get better, so there's just bigger and more at that point.

If you're overheating at cruise, then you're probably not getting enough airflow through your radiator core, or the core is too small. You could have other issues, but if the cooling system is functioning properly those are the two most likely issues. It looks like you've already tried ducting, so you may want to look into ditching the stock radiator and getting a radiator with some more capacity.

Things that I can attest to that absolutely will not help you:
1) Cheap fans
2) Crappy shrouds/shroud designs (http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fa...s-out-of-control.504578/page-3#post-153597523)
3) Water wetter, or anything else you can physically dump into the cooling system that's not distilled water and your chioce of lubricant (antifreeze, whatever). Regardless of what the bottle claims, none of it will drop your temps significantly on its own.
 
Erik, did you wrap your header and downpipe? I figured out some of my over heating was just plain radiant heat from the header and DP soaking the aluminum Mitsumoto Radiator I have. Once I wrapped it all, the under hood temps went down as well as the creeping heat that my Spals couldn't pull down. Just FYI on what helped me. Best of luck!!!
 
Yep, everything is wrapped. Those are cruising temps. Idle is fine, won't go over 210. When it's 85 outside I stay under 210 as well. When it's over 90 degrees outside cruising is when I get over 210. I have one good Spal puller and one cheap ebay pusher. I'll replace the ebay pusher with a good one.
 
When it's 85 outside I stay under 210 as well. When it's over 90 degrees outside cruising is when I get over 210.

I'd say you may need a radiator with a bit more capacity then. You can drop the coin on a nice AFCO or Griffin core, or pick up an aluminum Ebay version. I've had pretty good luck with the Ebay units. Probably not the most efficient units compared to AFCO or Griffin, but they work much better than the stock unit just due to shear size and capacity.

It's basically identical to the Mishimoto unit, minus the Mishimoto tag and ridiculous price markup.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-ALUMINUM-RACING-2-ROW-RADIATOR-90-94-MIT-ECLIPSE-TALON-LASER-DSM-1G-MT/271159306147?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

I just redid a bunch of cooling stuff on my Galant. Do you have room to relocate a fan on the front side of the A/C condenser if you relocated your oil cooler? http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gstwithpsis-galant-vr4-1837-2000.482807/page-13#post-153653318
 
Glad you brought up the oil cooler, I relocated mine to the SMIC area to free up more "air" space and have been very happy with the way it stays cooler now. No A/C on this car though.
Also, the thicker the core, the harder it was for my pusher to push air through and I was actually splaying it everywhere except THRU the radiator so seal up the pusher real good.
 
My experience with aluminum radiators is that it's a double edged sword.

Because they are thicker, depending on what clearance you have , you can lose the ability to place A ac fan on it.

That's one circumstance.
The other was when i had oem fans and exhaust / turbo and the fans were not enough to pull air from a thicker core+ a front Mount.


Today marks a huge deal for me.
I stayed under 200F with ac on and a oem rad, because it's thinner and i can fit a decent fan in between manifold.

However, i used a mishimoto electric motor with a oem shroud and blade(cooling fan).
Passenger side were there is more room .

And it's insanely strong.

I disconnected Ac fan and just ran my hybrid fan and alone it did all the work.

+ a fudged load of shroud / duct work..

It's also 95f in Florida today

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Yep, everything is wrapped. Those are cruising temps. Idle is fine, won't go over 210. When it's 85 outside I stay under 210 as well. When it's over 90 degrees outside cruising is when I get over 210. I have one good Spal puller and one cheap ebay pusher. I'll replace the ebay pusher with a good one.
If you plan on placing a condensor in the stock location, you will see on average 10-15f increases with the AC on.

On idea I've always had was using a merchandiser condensor with its own fan and shroud and Mount it on the side like a oil cooler.
They are small as very thick.
This is one idea i may use if i can't solve my latest.

Which is i see ac temps of 53f at idle but the temps go up with speed .

This may be low refrigerant though.
 
Cooling at idle is as simple as 2 of the largest quality fans you can find that are properly placed on the radiator core. A smaller radiator core has less cooling capacity any way you cut it. Running a smaller radiator just to fit fans that move an adequate amount of air through the core just reinforces my point. You'll find at speed that smaller radiator may not work to adequately cool your setup.

When I say quality fans, I mean Spal fans. IMO, Spal is one of the highest quality fans out there. Once I figured that out for myself, I've never had cooling issues. Spal fans are one of the few fans that actually flow what they are rated for. Personally, I'd ditch all the rest, especially Mishimoto.
 
most aftermarket fans test flow at "0 inches of water" pressure differential. the fans are in a room and flow through the fan gets tested; there is no adverse pressure gradient. manufacturer's specifications should be checked. if the spec is 3000cfm at 10A the fan won't flow that much air in the vehicle. if the spec is 3000cfm at 30-35A it's much more beleivable.

one of the issues is the area of the intercooler is much smaller than the area of the radiator. if the majority of air going to the radiator has to go through intercooler first then the radiator won't have enough airflow.

the original metal shroud with 12" fan was a major restriction. driver's side was basically blocked (choked) by small area leading to the fan. 12" single fan area also too small to flow as well as the radiator core could. the 19" (15"?) fan with a proper shroud may flow enough air. a custom shroud that may be an inch thick on the driver's side and three or four on the oposite side may be constructed. the back side could also be inclined so the fan could fit.

hood venting would help as well. the camaro flap thingy causes high pressure in front of it and low pressure behind it. the low pressure helps with engine bay evacuation. high pressure in front helps feed the radiator as 3rd gen camaro was a bottom feeder - the radiator intake was behind and below the bumper. on dsms the dam should be installed at the front of the bumper. the high pressure should migrate into the radiator intake in the bumper and the low pressue would still be there to help evacuate the engine bay.

With the original 12" single fan setup rubber flaps should have been installed on the driver's side so the airflow could open them on the highway. when the fan comes on the flaps should close. VW/audi vehicles have been using rubber flaps on shrouds for a while.

a mile high altitude doesn't help either. the compressor has to run at higher pressure ratio for any given "boost" pressure so more heat is generated. the lower air density also lowers heat exchanger efficiency so both intercoolers and radiators need more air flow than at sea level. back when indy cars raced in Colorado special heavy duty cooling packages had to be utilized. wrc and wtcc in Mexico, dakar racers in South America (Andes) also run heavy duty cooling setups.

heat exchanger area increase has a larger effect on cooling vs thickness but thickness does help up to a point. proper radiators like griffin and fluidine do help with engine cooling.

in my opinion this setup is starved of airflow.

if one takes a look at some of the oem fmic installations, such as Volvo's, the intercooler is mounted between the condenser and the radiator. the area of the intercooler is similar to the radiator and the thickness of the core is similar to the radiator as well. to oems with small turbos customer comfort (ac) comes before performance (intercooler). most people would rather not sweat in their work clothes than win a comute red light to red light drag race. the power can't be used while in gridlock.

i would also mount the engine oil cooler ducted by itself behind the bumper on driver's side similar to what mitsu did with evos (on passenger side).

good luck.
 
Hello Everyone,

I hope you are all having a great day. I stumbled upon this thread and though I would clarify a few things.

First being that our radiator was compared to an ebay radiator. I can assure you this is most certainly not the case. Every single product that Mishimoto produces is designed, engineered and tested here at our cooperate headquarters here in New Castle, Delaware.

I also saw someone recommend ditching our fans. I would highly suggest against this. All of the CFM and RPM numbers listed for our fans have been tested and verified at our production facility. If you happen to be having an issue where your fan is not meeting the standards that it should, I would recommend contacting us directly as every Mishimoto product comes with our Lifetime Warranty. We can be reached by phone at 302.762.4501. or by email at [email protected]

Thank you
-Jake
Mishimoto
 
First being that our radiator was compared to an ebay radiator. I can assure you this is most certainly not the case. Every single product that Mishimoto produces is designed, engineered and tested here at our cooperate headquarters here in New Castle, Delaware.

I notice you didn't say your radiators were manufactured in New Castle, Delaware, which could explain the similarities between your product and the identical (likely Chinese) Ebay version I provided in link to above. I'm not trying to trash your product unnecessarily, but I've personally had both radiator units in my possession (yours and the Ebay version), and both were nearly identical in size, fit, finish, and design. If you can explain the differences, I'd be open to hearing about them. I assume you've seen copies of your product online, if that's what they are, right?

My comment about your slim fans and shroud are also from personal experience. The shroud design hinders airflow at speed, and in my case, caused the car to actually run hotter than it did prior to installing the shroud/dual fan setup. Also, the Mishimoto slim fans did not move the amount of air that a comparable set of Spal fans did.

Again, this is my personal experience. Some users may have great results with the Mishimoto products I had issues with. I however, can't vouch for them, and would not recommend the particular ones I've had experience with to anyone seeking advice.
 
I would like to add, regardless of my personal opinion or experiences with Mishimoto products, I've seen Mishimoto reach out here on the forums in numerous threads directly to customers (or in this case DSMtuners forum members) offering to resolve issues and concerns about their products. I can't say I've seen the same level of customer interaction from even some of the supporting vendors here.

@Mishimoto
 
I notice you didn't say your radiators were manufactured in New Castle, Delaware, which could explain the similarities between your product and the identical (likely Chinese) Ebay version I provided in link to above. I'm not trying to trash your product unnecessarily, but I've personally had both radiator units in my possession (yours and the Ebay version), and both were nearly identical in size, fit, finish, and design. If you can explain the differences, I'd be open to hearing about them. I assume you've seen copies of your product online, if that's what they are, right?

My comment about your slim fans and shroud are also from personal experience. The shroud design hinders airflow at speed, and in my case, caused the car to actually run hotter than it did prior to installing the shroud/dual fan setup. Also, the Mishimoto slim fans did not move the amount of air that a comparable set of Spal fans did.

Again, this is my personal experience. Some users may have great results with the Mishimoto products I had issues with. I however, can't vouch for them, and would not recommend the particular ones I've had experience with to anyone seeking advice.

Hello GST with PSI

You are correct our products are not made in New Castle. We actually have production facilities across the globe. Some here in the US, some in the UK and some as far as Australia to ensure that we are able to supply all of our global warehouses with the parts they need.

Without having one of the ebay units that you are referring to on hand, I would not be able to identify any differences. We have been established for quite awhile now, so some of our products certainly could have been copied. However we do not private label or supply other companies with our products. While there are countless all aluminum radiator suppliers, we do not compare our products directly against our rivals. With this being said, we would have no testing or information on the similar units you are referencing. While the units may appear identical, they would not have been manufactured or in any way associated with Mishimoto.

In regards to your personal experiences with our fan and shroud, I'm certainly sorry to hear that your product did not meet expectations. Our shroud was designed specifically for the s2000 and specifically designed to pull air through the core. Only moving/pulling air that has passed through the radiator core as opposed to pulling in air from the engine bay helps increase cooling efficiency. Again in this situation , we do not compare directly to our products directly to our competitors, so you certainly may be correct in terms of efficiency. However we do physically test our fans to ensure that they are meeting the CFM ratings listed on our website. As I am sure you know, there are so many factors that can determine a vehicles overall water temperature.

With that being said, I would like to thank you for your feedback. Every bit of customer feed back is extremely valuable to us and helps us grow as a company every single day. While I do apologize that your experience was not positive, I can not fault you for simply providing others with what you have encountered. If you have any questions, concerns, or would like to further discuss the problems that you have encountered, feel free to contact us directly at [email protected]

Thank you,
-Jake
Mishimoto
 
Mishimoto, while it is obvious you guys are well known for quality and customer support.

And The dsm community appreciates the support.

Your fans are......
Not Great.

It's not just one member.
Many of use waste money on your fans.
Only to end up going back to oem or spal; which is superior.

I've personally struggled to keep temps down with your products.

Not to mention my ( your ) fans have mostly failed.

Again I'm not attacking you.
But expect actual customer response/ review, when your praising a product many of us know that falls short.
 
@Mishimoto

I know a few people who have had very good results with the Mishimoto race line of fans. That just wasn't my experience with the Mishimoto slim fans. I'll concede, there certainly could have also been factors associated with my particular setup that contributed to the Mishimoto setup performing sub-par. I'm sure there are DSM guys out there running the Mishimoto dual slim fan/shroud setup who are having zero issues.

I'll reiterate once again, regardless of my personal opinion or experiences with Mishimoto products, it's really nice to see Mishimoto supporting their products in a informative and professional manner. With good customer support like you've shown, I can stand still behind your brand, even if I don't necessarily like all of your products.
 
Most important thing I've found is retaining the factory fans, I have a FMIC, TRANS COOLER, AND run My A/C constantly without any issues I can idle all day long running my a/c, not even moving and it won't overheat before putting Factory fans is over heat while moving even. I've tried everything on my 2G and what worked on it also yes Workin on my 1g. I rerouted my intercooler piping for OEM fans and never had an issue since, my 2g used the OEM radiator even, but I have a Mishimoto on my 1g.. oh and I have zero ducting set up.

Just have to get creative with intercooler routing, I can never liked the "short route" setup anyway, but if I can fit an hx40 on a cast t3 manifold and make it work, just about any thing you'd have on a after car can bed made to fit
 
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