I guess it was Inevitable

[spyderturbo007]

Well, after catching a bunch of slack from everyone for the past year or so, I finally broke down and picked up a copy of DSMLink and a 2g EPROM.

$640 shipped for the software, cable and EPROM. I talked extensively to the seller and with Thomas from DSMLink and everything seems to be legitimate. I asked the seller to contact Thomas as soon as possible to arrange transfer of ownership so I can have access to their forums prior to receiving the ECU and cable.

Wish me luck.......Oh, and don't tell my wife, she would kill me.

 

[EnticivEclipse]

i guess you were the one that snatched it off Ebay...

I was hesitant to purchase it but hopefully all is well.

Happy boosting

 

[spyderturbo007]

Yep, that was me, sorry.

I asked Tom from DSMLink to take a look at the listing and he said everything looked in order except for the tape on the OBD-II interface cable. That was something that caught my eye, so I asked the seller about it. Apparently they wired up the 2g version of DSMLink to a 1g using an adapter cable they made and a 2g EPROM ECU. The tape was holding their specially made cable to the DSMLink OBD-II interface.

The seller also told me that the only problem was that the 2g ECU had been moved into a 1g case and they didn't have the old 2g case. No big deal, since it's only a couple screws to swap boards with my current ECU. That way all the mounting points match up.

On a positive note, the seller already contacted DSMLink and transfered ownership. So now I have access to their forums.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I was just about to say, I think I just saw that for sale thread over on link. Congrats on making the move. I can already picture you saying it "I should have bought DSMLink a LONG time ago"

 

[oldman]

All that SAFC knowledge going to waste.

 

[spyderturbo007]

All that SAFC knowledge going to waste.

I can still use it to help people here. But I'll trade you for your DSMLink knowledge.

I do have some questions that I couldn't find an answer to on the DSMLink forums. To be honest, with all the knowledge flying around over there, I'm a little embarassed to post them in that forum.

If the stock chip is burned to compensate for larger injectors, why do you need to compensate for dead time and make a global correction within the software?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Post away man, the more knowledge spread out, more often, the better

Also, when a dsmlink ECU is burned for chip compensation, it sets the base global and deadtime for whatever injector you designate. So when you first launch DSMLink, your settings are already programmed for you. What your thinking about is a double-negative, but DSMLink doesn't do that, it's just an automatic base setting that you can still adjust when you get into your fuel tables.

 

[fwdeclipse]

Thats sweet man, that is my next upgrade im going to do during the winter time.

 

[oldman]

I can still use it to help people here. But I'll trade you for your DSMLink knowledge.

No way butthead.

If the stock chip is burned to compensate for larger injectors, why do you need to compensate for dead time and make a global correction within the software?

Several reasons.

1. In your case since you bought it used (instead of buying new from a dealer like me ), the previous owner may have different original settings, 2G DSMLink does not have a memory board like 1G's so it will always default back to factory settings.

2. Every car is different and no sets of injectors ever flow exactly as they're advertize so fine tuning is still required. Let's rephrase your question so you understand.

"I bought a SAFC from someone who has the exact setup as my car, why can't I just use his settings on the SAFC for my car without making any changes?"

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Also, when a dsmlink ECU is burned for chip compensation, it sets the base global and deadtime for whatever injector you designate. So when you first launch DSMLink, your settings are already programmed for you.

Also another reason to have the adjustments inside the software...not every injector from a respective manufacturer will flow exactly the same from one set to another (or even within a set), therefore DSMLink gives you the ability to fine tune your injectors as required.

As an example, I run the HRC 625s (yes, I know), the "standard" global/dead-time is -15/180 (IIRC), mine are set at -15/435 in order to dial in correctly. If I didn't have the ability to adjust within the software my fuel trims would be off a bit; which they are "straight out of the box".

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Damn, I forgot I have to move faster to beat that oldman!!

 

[oldman]

Slow ass kids.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Post away man, the more knowledge spread out, more often, the better

Also, when a dsmlink ECU is burned for chip compensation, it sets the base global and deadtime for whatever injector you designate. So when you first launch DSMLink, your settings are already programmed for you. What your thinking about is a double-negative, but DSMLink doesn't do that, it's just an automatic base setting that you can still adjust when you get into your fuel tables.

Alright, you asked for it.

Ok, so that's already going to be listed in the software and isn't something I'm going to have to change unless LTFT Lo and Mid are the same but not zero?

I just shot an email over asking about the keyspan adapter, since my laptop doesn't have a serial port. I also asked about having the chip re-burnt for my setup, so we'll see what they say about that.

I'm trying to establish a "game plan" so I have a list of things to do when the software and ECU arrives. I'll obviously have to install the software on the laptop and the ECU in the car, but this is what I've come up with so far:

1. Swap plug wires.
2. Plug in cable to laptop and OBD-II port.
3. Turn ignition to the "on" position and verify that there is a green light on the bottom right corner of the software to indicate a connection to the ECU.
4. Adjust user programmable settings, such as launch RPM, AFR properties for deadtime and injector size, Dash CEL illumination, etc.
5. Start car and allow to warm up.
6. Capture LTFT Mid, LTFT Lo, AirFlowPerRev and MAFRaw while cruising for about 10 minutes, then let the car idle for an additional 5 minutes.

Now I can shut off the car and make some adjustments based on the captured data. I'm looking to get both LTFT's as close to zero as possible. My understanding is that I can accomplish this by adjusting the airflow tables. Use the 50Hz slider to adjust LTFT Lo and the 150Hz slider for LTFT mid. That is provided that the AirFlowPerRev is right around 0.28g/rev? If it's not, then I need to make the adjustments using deadtime? Please correct me if I'm not even close on this. <- EDIT. It looks like I'm backwards. If the AirFlowPerRev is not around 0.28g/rev then I want to concentrate on deadtime adjustments as opposed to airflow?

Once I get the LTFT's dialed in, then I can proceed to WOT tuning.

Is it true that the fuel sliders only work under WOT?

I read somewhere that you are supposed to choose an AFR for your entire RPM range, but I can't seem to find anything in the software. Or did I misunderstand that to mean that I need to decide what AFR I'm shooting for? Currently my WBO2 is plugged into the rear O2 sensor input at the ECU.

What parameters do I want to capture when I make a 3rd gear pull? Does DSMLink automatically capture everything and then you can choose what you want to view in the software or am I reading the manual wrong?

I'm guessing that since I've never had access to knock or IDC that I would want to concentrate on knock and AFR. Is that correct.

Thanks a bunch.

Oh, one other thing, is it true that on a 2g you don't have to do any additional wiring if you want to use the launch control function? This allows you to sit at the line, put the gas all the way to the floor and the ECU holds the RPM's at whatever value you choose?

EDIT-> Wow, in the time it took me to write this post there were 4 more responses. Thanks guys!!!!

 

[spyderturbo007]

No way butthead.

Well, you can't blame me for trying.

Let's rephrase your question so you understand.

"I bought a SAFC from someone who has the exact setup as my car, why can't I just use his settings on the SAFC for my car without making any changes?"

Smart a$$. At least you can't make fun of me anymore for being in the dark ages.

 

[oldman]

Smart a$$.

Hey, you're the one who asked the SMART question.

At least you can't make fun of me anymore for being in the dark ages.

Yet but you're still running a virgin EVO3, 190 without an AFPR and most of all, you still have a FWD.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Yet but you're still running a virgin EVO3, 190 without an AFPR and most of all, you still have a FWD.

Oh great, here we go again. Hey, at least I finally rewired my pump about 3 weeks ago.

As for the FWD, believe me, if they made a AWD Spyder, I'd be on that like a fat girl on a cupcake. I just don't have the funds to do the swap, since the wife made me buy her a house.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Alright, you asked for it. QUOTE]

Wow that's a long post. You're 1-6 steps are good to go. Once you get your fuel trim settled in (this process does take several days when you're new at it; they have to be close to zero and +-5% of each other), go do a WOT pull. I generally like logging: rpm, timing, widebando2, boostest (or MAF), and knock. Depending on the prescription of the day, I will log: clutchsw (when making sure NLTS works), MAFRaw, boostest, coolant temp, intake temp, hp and torque.

To make changes to your values; click on ECU > captured values and then select the values you want DSMLink to log. Then go into values and then select them. Restart DSMLink and then click F8 to connect to ECU and then F12 to log. Then, DSMLink will automatically log all of your values for you.

As far as AFR tuning, I like shooting for 14.7 pre-boost curve and then 11.:1 when on boost.

I've also experimented with timing pre-boost curve and bumped my 1k - 4k timing silders up +10*. This actually helped spool and driveability. After 4k I ramped it down to zero and then back up to +1* from 6k+

KNOCK is your sole priority. Anywhere from 0 to .7 count of knock is neglible and you will never be able to tune it out (so don't kill yourself). AFR will vary from car to car, pump vs race, etc.

NLTS requires for you to wire the clutch switch in and make a couple of changes in DSMLink.

Stutterbox is just the RPM selection - choose your RPM. Once your clutch switch is pressed in, you're at a standstill, just floor the gas and it should bounce off your desired RPM.

 

[oldman]

Don't forget to invert the CAS in Link.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Alright, you asked for it.

Wow that's a long post. You're 1-6 steps are good to go. Once you get your fuel trim settled in (this process does take several days when you're new at it; they have to be close to zero and +-5% of each other), go do a WOT pull. I generally like logging: rpm, timing, widebando2, boostest (or MAF), and knock. Depending on the prescription of the day, I will log: clutchsw (when making sure NLTS works), MAFRaw, boostest, coolant temp, intake temp, hp and torque.

Is there a reason that I can't go WOT until the trims are settled in since the ECU doesn't use trims at WOT? I just don't want to be stuck driving around for 3 days and not be able to put the pedal to the floor.

To make changes to your values; click on ECU > captured values and then select the values you want DSMLink to log. Then go into values and then select them. Restart DSMLink and then click F8 to connect to ECU and then F12 to log. Then, DSMLink will automatically log all of your values for you.

Alright, that sounds good. I just can't look at the "captured values" since I'm not connected to the ECU right not. I've been playing with the software at work and there are a couple sections I can't see because my COM port is hooked up the the XRF instrument.

As far as AFR tuning, I like shooting for 14.7 pre-boost curve and then 11.:1 when on boost.

I was planning on starting at 11:1 and then working leaner because of the Meth injection. I just have to replace my DP since the flex section is leaking and causing my AFR to read lean on the WBO2. Hopefully I'll get my parts soon, I've been waiting for almost 6 weeks. Gotta' call Extreme again.

I've also experimented with timing pre-boost curve and bumped my 1k - 4k timing silders up +10*. This actually helped spool and driveability. After 4k I ramped it down to zero and then back up to +1* from 6k+

So the timing sliders are active all the time or only at WOT like the fuel sliders?

KNOCK is your sole priority. Anywhere from 0 to .7 count of knock is neglible and you will never be able to tune it out (so don't kill yourself). AFR will vary from car to car, pump vs race, etc.

Excellent, that's what I thought. I saw that a lot of people were showing knock in their logs <1 degree and no one ever bothered to say anything about it, so I figured it was background noise or something.

NLTS requires for you to wire the clutch switch in and make a couple of changes in DSMLink.

I think I'll skip the NLTS because of the horror stories I've heard about it's impact on the stock tranny. Killing the tranny is the last thing I need.

Stutterbox is just the RPM selection - choose your RPM. Once your clutch switch is pressed in, you're at a standstill, just floor the gas and it should bounce off your desired RPM.

Does this mean that I need to reattach my clutch switch? I removed it because of starting the 7-bolt with the clutch depressed.

Don't forget to invert the CAS in Link.

Oh, I almost forgot about that part.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Oh, what do you guys have your CEL set for? I was thinking about setting if for knock, but I see that the default is for 5 degrees. That seems like a lot of knock before you get any warning. I know that it's adjustable, but I was just wondering what you guys are setting it at.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Some decent resources for you....

DSMLink WIKI: http://dsmlinkwiki.redacresracing.com/default.aspx/DSMLink/DSMLink.html

DSMLink setup/tuning thread...http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16236

Timing adjustments are in effect ALL the time, NOT just WOT. Yes, to use the functions you want, you will need to re-attach the clutch wire.

The meth/water injection will help greatly, but remember, as with all tuning...baby steps are the way to go. I wouldn't just jump on 11:1, maybe 10/10.5:1 and work from there just to be safer.

I would also probably set up a couple of different "maps"...one with injection, one without since the tanks are not bottomless, and you more than likely wouldn't need it on the streets (well at my age anyway), just for the track.

 

[zippyshoe]

Oh, what do you guys have your CEL set for? I was thinking about setting if for knock, but I see that the default is for 5 degrees. That seems like a lot of knock before you get any warning. I know that it's adjustable, but I was just wondering what you guys are setting it at.

I have mine set to trigger at 3 degrees of knock since I also felt that 5 degrees seemed a bit high.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Some decent resources for you....

DSMLink WIKI: http://dsmlinkwiki.redacresracing.com/default.aspx/DSMLink/DSMLink.html

DSMLink setup/tuning thread...http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16236

Timing adjustments are in effect ALL the time, NOT just WOT. Yes, to use the functions you want, you will need to re-attach the clutch wire.

The meth/water injection will help greatly, but remember, as with all tuning...baby steps are the way to go. I wouldn't just jump on 11:1, maybe 10/10.5:1 and work from there just to be safer.

I would also probably set up a couple of different "maps"...one with injection, one without since the tanks are not bottomless, and you more than likely wouldn't need it on the streets (well at my age anyway), just for the track.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out, Jim. Right after I posted asking about timing adjustment, I found the answer in a section of the manual that I must have missed the first time around. I'll go back through and read all that stuff again, since I'm starting to get a much better understanding of what's going on with all the help you guys have been providing.

I got a response from Tom about the defaut settings for my chip. Apparently it's burned for Denso 550's with a 7500rpm rev limit and CAS inversion on by default. So, if I'm reading things right, there shouldn't be any reason for me to spend the $30 to have the chip re-burned? I'm running 650's right now and have no reason to run over the factory rev limit. I'm also running the 97 CAS, so the inversion is something I need anyway.

So even if the battery goes dead and I don't have my laptop, I'll be running about 15% rich until I get home which shouldn't be a problem. If I'm getting this right, I can completely disregard the default fuel settings and just input the values correct for my injectors. That way the default values will be re-written on the chip and ignored until there is a power loss?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

So even if the battery goes dead and I don't have my laptop, I'll be running about 15% rich until I get home which shouldn't be a problem. If I'm getting this right, I can completely disregard the default fuel settings and just input the values correct for my injectors. That way the default values will be re-written on the chip and ignored until there is a power loss?

Correct, the defaults should be able to get you back to the house with no big issues until you can reload your settings from a previous log.

Correct, just input YOUR injector settings (global/dead-time), then go out and do the 10/5 run to fine tune the injector settings. Then you're ready for some WOT pulls.

Again, remember "baby steps" save a motor until you get a better handle on how big of a jump you can safely do.

I also changed my CEL to read 3 degrees for the same reasons.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Correct, the defaults should be able to get you back to the house with no big issues until you can reload your settings from a previous log.

Correct, just input YOUR injector settings (global/dead-time), then go out and do the 10/5 run to fine tune the injector settings. Then you're ready for some WOT pulls.

Again, remember "baby steps" save a motor until you get a better handle on how big of a jump you can safely do.

I also changed my CEL to read 3 degrees for the same reasons.

Sounds good!

I guess the part I kept forgetting was that when you make changes to the chip that you are actually replacing the default settings. I was constantly thinking that I needed to account for the difference between the chip defaults and changes I would be making. I guess it's all those years of piggyback tuning.

Oh, one other thing. Does DSMLink allow you to check the status of the readiness monitors? I saw a passing comment about being able to manipulate the monitors with the Palm version, but didn't see anything in the laptop software.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Oh, one other thing. Does DSMLink allow you to check the status of the readiness monitors?

Yes, under ECU - DTCs - there should be a button for the readyness check on that screen. I can't remember what it's called (at work and can't get to that screen without being hooked to an ECU), but it's closer to the bottom.