Hypergound wires?!??

[LightningGSX]

MNGSX,
A frequency signal itself is not resistant to noise, but it's less likely to transfer the noise(as opposed to a 5v analog signal) to whatever is counting it(like a schmidt trigger and uC input), anyway I never said frequency signals are prone to noise(Don't know where you got that from).Also I don't remember saying the MAF input on the ECU uses a F-V convertor since the uC is more than capable of counting the signal itself.

The karman sensors are more a product of the vortex generator inside them, the frequency is directly related to airflow and has little to do with the housing.I am no expert , but I have seen satelite pics of VonKarman vortices produced by islands in the pacific, and they are pretty much the same(on a much larger scale of course) as what is happening inside the sensor.So it's obvious(to me at least) you are wrong.

1-I could care less what you do with your car
2-If your gonna post, at least come with some facts and read the whole thread.
3-brads at least knows what he is talking about and made sense, you do not.
4-Maybe you should read some books.
5-People who say a product doesn't/can't work should use more facts, and less speculation and skepticism.
6-I can NOT say(nor did I try to say) for a fact these ground wires will make any difference, I only think it is possible in some cases.
7-16v? What the hell would that do?
8-"If you have aftermarket EMS, Look for alot better timing sensors that are compatable."?????

 

[LightningGSX]

How would that frequency range be more resistant to noise, opposed to a higher frequency(like GM hot wire types) anyway?

 

[MNGSX]

Oh sh*t

A frequency signal itself is not resistant to noise, but it's less likely to transfer the noise

Once again you bring up noise that does'nt matter.

I do read books.

In fact one of them is by a microproccessor MFG that makes many ECU processors.

As far as one freqency being better than another. The engineers know what range the most common interference sources is in the automotive environment . So you pick a frequency range with the least noise around. Yes you are right many processors have built in support for such signals.

16v? What the hell would that do?

Maybe a little more energy going into an ignition coil. You have never seen a 16v racing ignition?

8-"If you have aftermarket EMS, Look for alot better timing sensors that are compatable."?????

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/triggerkits/220-73002.html

From electromotive. There are other MFGs and ECU's that can be configured for a trigger like this.

Electromotive's Patented Direct Ignition Technology is built around an angular based timing circuit that virtually eliminates the Dynamic Error associated with all time-based Ignition Systems. When a typical street engine accelerates at a rate of 3000 RPM-per-second, a time based circuit may suffer from more than 2.5° of triggering error at 6500rpm on a 4-cylinder. In simple terms, a time based ignition circuit will not know the difference between 30 degrees of advance and 32.5 degrees of advance! In practice, the ignition timing error will be even WORSE with a time-based system due to computer processing errors attributable to the non-linear acceleration rates of most engines.

 

[LightningGSX]

MNGSX,
1-YOU brought up the frequency/noise issue not me
2-All uC's have "support" for such signals
3-What would an extra 1-2 volts do for an ignition?
4-As for the rest of the crap you posted...what are talking about?why do I care?what exactly does this have to do with rest of the thread? what does your uC book have to do with anything?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you but nothing you have said is relevant(to prior posts) or makes sense to me and alot is incorrect.

 

[MNGSX]

The points I'm trying to make are

1. that the hypergrounds are a waste of money.
2. the small amount of noise and interference present does'nt matter.
3. There are better areas to spend money on if you want to rewire things.

I work with mostly compression ignition stuff these days.. But I'm sure Brads can explain why being able to feed some extra voltage to the powertransistor (or an MSD box) gets more spark energy.

If not just use a search engine and see why the V8 crowd has been spiking ignition voltage for some time now.

As for the crank trigger suggestions. I was illustrating that many of limitations of the OEM EMS have nothing to do with ground wires or interference at all and more to do with the limitations and capabilities of the sensors.

 

[LightningGSX]

Originally posted by MNGSX
The points I'm trying to make are

1. that the hypergrounds are a waste of money.
2. the small amount of noise and interference present does'nt matter.
3. There are better areas to spend money on if you want to rewire things.

Sure you can explain why this is fact?and not speculation?I don't think you can.Since you are the one who commented on 16 volt electrical systems, you could explain this too? Once again , I don't think you can.
Sure I can post things based upon speculation and skeptisism, but NO PROOF.Surely you can post proof? Again I don't think so.And the $10 it costs to reground your engine is pointless? You must have proof? Uh yeah I didn't think so! Do you have some more sensless comments based on nothing?

 

[cait sith]

Reground your motor all you want.

No one's trying to stop you.

But let's consider that every single DSM that's been around the block on any competition most likely didn't reground their system with silly little wires.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by LightningGSX


Sure you can explain why this is fact?and not speculation?I don't think you can.Since you are the one who commented on 16 volt electrical systems, you could explain this too? Once again , I don't think you can.

The 16V feed to the coil will help on some ignitions that don't have any sort of current monitoring on the coil dwell. DSMs would actually benefit from this, since they don't have any current feedback other than a limit at which the power transistor clamps the coil charging current. But the coils don't get up to this current in normal operation. So with higher coil primary current, you get higher output spark energy. I've done this on test benches using DSM ignitors, coils, etc, its pretty easy to verify. I haven't tested long term durability of the power transistor at those currents though, so I am not saying go out and do it, unless you feel like being a guinea pig.

Upping the voltage to an MSD DIS2 box wouldn't net you any gains, as feeding 8-16V into the box all results in the same voltage and energy at the coil, at least in my testing. Some other CDI boxes could see a gain, I just haven't tested any CDIs that have shown a gain yet.

Originally posted by LightningGSX

Sure I can post things based upon speculation and skeptisism, but NO PROOF.Surely you can post proof? Again I don't think so.And the $10 it costs to reground your engine is pointless? You must have proof?

This is why I stopped responding to your arguments I have been waiting for your proof that it shows a gain? I don't even agree with your arguments as to why they COULD be legitimate, but no point in arguing in circles, which is what it started to seem like.

If you really want to blow a few dollars on something, because it hasn't been proven thoroughly to NOT work, I suggest
http://www.spiralmax.com/tet.htm
It hasn't been PROVEN to not work that I know of, if only because I don't think anyone would take it seriously enough to test. But I'd still laugh if someone told me they installed one. Just like I'd laugh if someone told me they installed performance ground wires.

Brad

 

[LightningGSX]

Alright this is seriously my last post.
Things I never said..
1-These ground wires worked
2-These wires are worth $100
3-I had proof they worked
What I have said is, I think it is possible for these to work and I can't condemn a product or an idea on no factual basis.
Brads I don't question your knowledge or your experience.
MNGSX I do question yours.

 

[MNGSX]

I can't condemn a product or an idea on no factual basis.

I won't buy a product or use or even test an idea with no "factual basis".

I've been trying to find one. It does'nt exist.

Brads proved the 16v ignition. Ive done it to HEI and DSM style systems. I've never tried on an MSD.

One thing good ground wires could improve is the ability to feed current to the box. But everybody who wires these in runs bigger wire already.

Originally posted by Brads

DSMs would actually benefit from this, since they don't have any current feedback other than a limit at which the power transistor clamps the coil charging current....... So with higher coil primary current, you get higher output spark energy. I've done this on test benches using DSM ignitors, coils, etc, its pretty easy to verify. I haven't tested long term durability of the power transistor at those currents though, so I am not saying go out and do it, unless you feel like being a guinea pig.

Power transistors are pretty cheap and easily replaced. I run 16v into mine and it works fine.

Brads I don't question your knowledge or your experience.

He knows his stuff. I don't work specifically on the same systems he does. So I defered the ignition voltage facts to him.

MNGSX I do question yours.

You know that somehow does'nt bother me. You don't laugh your ass off at the hyperground wires, therefore, your opinions are obviously not very well informed.

 

[speedaddicts]

I know this is a tired subject by now, and no i didnt read every reply on this post, but if you install better "wires" on your stereo, it gets clearer but it doesnt exactly give it more power. i havent tried them, but i think a smoother idle and better throttle response could be possible.

 

[ECLIPSE4x4]

Ok, lets stop with the highschool bickering anf name calling.

Lets get back on topic with out all the bullshit comments.

 

[brads]

Originally posted by speedaddicts
I know this is a tired subject by now, and no i didnt read every reply on this post, but if you install better "wires" on your stereo, it gets clearer but it doesnt exactly give it more power. i havent tried them, but i think a smoother idle and better throttle response could be possible.

Eclipse4x4, if you were going to delete posts, you should have started with speedaddicts. He isn't even going to be bothered with reading the thread before posting an incredibly moronic comment.

Engine Control Units are NOT stereos!! Do you have a volume knob on your ECU? I don't. Do you rate your ECU at the Wattage it can provide to your engine??? You are alone if so. What is your next step after the ground wires? Put an amplifier on the TPS? Run monster cable to your injectors? Build a isobaric box for the engine? That sounds idiotic, doesn't it? Well so does your comparison between a ground to an amplifier cleaning up the signal, and a ground on the engine smoothing out the idle.

 

[ECLIPSE4x4]

How is he supposed to learn if he doesn't inquire. He obviously doesn't know the answer.

I guess you have never inquired about anything.

So like I said Keep you lame comments to a minimun.

End of story.