Morphius
DSM Wiseman
- 1,895
- 62
- Jun 9, 2003
-
M-Town,
Michigan
Tell me guys how would you answer this. I'm tired and in no mood to get in any pissing match. Discussion came about on a Honda board about Holsets. Honda guy made a blank statment that Honda heads far outflow DSM heads. So, I posted the test results by Polk. Here is a latest trolls response, with him quoteing me(statements with ME are his quotes):
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(Me) As I've asked before, numbers? Last guy gave me 256 for a max for ITR head.
Sounds like old fatass' ITR head, rhd.
(ME)Stock 90-94 DSM 2.0L DOHC head (tested by polk performance)
Lift CFM
.050 48.91
.100 94.21
.150 139.62
.200 181.24
.250 216.94
.300 241.11
.350 261.52
.400 271.14
.450 280.45
Yup, those look like flow figures for pretty well worked Honduh B-series heads. Which make more power NA than your stock Mitsufeces heads make under boost. *gasp*
Now, I like 4G63 a lot, watched Jeff boost #366/2000 to 30-something psi (I dunno, boost gauge needle hits a stop peg on or about the ~32 psi mark) on a stock 160K mile bottom end, for the last 10K miles. Let me qualify that by saying everything bolted on or around the 4G63 is junk, but I like the engine itself bunches and bunches. :thumbup: However, this does not change the fact that flowbench numbers have zero to do with flow quality.
Keep in mind H22 heads flow about like your 4G63 does, stock out of the box, but still manage to make piss poor power hp/psi compared against their smaller displacement B-series. This illustrates my point perfectly.
You play actual airflow cfm off against as close to peak port velocity as you can get across a useable rpm band for best power... notice I'm still not addressing the complex subject of flow quality... plus the mad ninja headache of proper cam design, combustion chamber design, overcoming the inexorable logistics of the tuenarboi process, etc etc ad nauseam. The 4G63 falls short, trades reliability for power production and acual flow through the head. I mean, Speed Phreak made 340 whp at 12 psi on P1's Mustang dyno off of an HX 35 and unported '91 small port LS head - not even an
MAD JDM VTEC head, inarguably the least of the B-series heads. What do DSMs do at 12 psi? 200 whp? Pfft.
Not that hp per psi means shit, except to ###got Honduh riceboys, but you want to argue it. It's all about brute force induction of air mass, and dealing with it. Which bone stock 4G63 does admirably, but you want to play Honduhboy HP PER LITER PER PSI idiocity, which I want to smack enough of these HT kiddies over already. You sound just like my best friend, another DSMtard like you. You two would probably fall in love and decide you were ###, if you met.
So, where did the lot of you get the idea to run diesel turbos on four cylinder ### crap, anyway? Craziest thing Joey's ever heard...
**************
Anyway, it's a good thread, and I don't want to get in any heated discussion about this and screw the thread up. But, I should respond respectfully in some manner. How should I bite my tougue?
**********
(Me) As I've asked before, numbers? Last guy gave me 256 for a max for ITR head.
Sounds like old fatass' ITR head, rhd.
(ME)Stock 90-94 DSM 2.0L DOHC head (tested by polk performance)
Lift CFM
.050 48.91
.100 94.21
.150 139.62
.200 181.24
.250 216.94
.300 241.11
.350 261.52
.400 271.14
.450 280.45
Yup, those look like flow figures for pretty well worked Honduh B-series heads. Which make more power NA than your stock Mitsufeces heads make under boost. *gasp*
Now, I like 4G63 a lot, watched Jeff boost #366/2000 to 30-something psi (I dunno, boost gauge needle hits a stop peg on or about the ~32 psi mark) on a stock 160K mile bottom end, for the last 10K miles. Let me qualify that by saying everything bolted on or around the 4G63 is junk, but I like the engine itself bunches and bunches. :thumbup: However, this does not change the fact that flowbench numbers have zero to do with flow quality.
Keep in mind H22 heads flow about like your 4G63 does, stock out of the box, but still manage to make piss poor power hp/psi compared against their smaller displacement B-series. This illustrates my point perfectly.
You play actual airflow cfm off against as close to peak port velocity as you can get across a useable rpm band for best power... notice I'm still not addressing the complex subject of flow quality... plus the mad ninja headache of proper cam design, combustion chamber design, overcoming the inexorable logistics of the tuenarboi process, etc etc ad nauseam. The 4G63 falls short, trades reliability for power production and acual flow through the head. I mean, Speed Phreak made 340 whp at 12 psi on P1's Mustang dyno off of an HX 35 and unported '91 small port LS head - not even an
MAD JDM VTEC head, inarguably the least of the B-series heads. What do DSMs do at 12 psi? 200 whp? Pfft.Not that hp per psi means shit, except to ###got Honduh riceboys, but you want to argue it. It's all about brute force induction of air mass, and dealing with it. Which bone stock 4G63 does admirably, but you want to play Honduhboy
HP PER LITER PER PSI idiocity, which I want to smack enough of these HT kiddies over already. You sound just like my best friend, another DSMtard like you. You two would probably fall in love and decide you were ###, if you met.So, where did the lot of you get the idea to run diesel turbos on four cylinder ### crap, anyway? Craziest thing Joey's ever heard...
**************
Anyway, it's a good thread, and I don't want to get in any heated discussion about this and screw the thread up. But, I should respond respectfully in some manner. How should I bite my tougue?
