How to rebuild your 6 bolt front case

[t25fury]

I prefer regular Vasoline petroleum jelly just for the simplicity and cost.

Good luck!

does this statement refer to the oil pump gears for priming or does it also aply to using petro jelly as an entire engine assembly lube ?

 

[twicks69]

does this statement refer to the oil pump gears for priming or does it also aply to using petro jelly as an entire engine assembly lube ?

No, I ONLY use it for priming the oil pump. You still want to use the proper engine assembly lube for engine assembly.

 

[GSXeclipsePSI]

I figured I would be ok to use it since it states it breaks down in tranny oil. Good for bearings surfaces during critical start-up before lubrication from oil takes over.

Dont wanna risk anything doing a fully built motor.

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Price: $7.79

Attributes:
Size:16 oz
Product Featuresrovides Lubrication During Transmission Assembly Process
Dyed Green to Prevent Misdiagnosis Leaks
Will Not Melt At Shop Temperatures
Provides Tackiness Required During Assembly Process
Not Harmful
Application:Transmission Assembly Lubricant

 

[TSIfreek]

That would be fine as well. Trany lube is just like vasoline. Pack the gear area only and not the pick up. Put some on the shafts as well.
How I like to do it is put a little vasoline in the case before the gears go in then lube the gear shats and bores with engine assembly lube put the gears in the big case side pack more vasoline/lube between the gears. Put the cover on and torque the bolts with 30wt oil to 18 lbs and your done.
Guys burning up front cases is from not prelubing the gears/shafts and applying to much torque to the timing belt when installing it. More tensinon you put on that timing belt the more pressure being put on the oil pump gear shaft.
Follow the factory service manual for adjusting the belt and you will be golden. Alot of guys skimp here.

 

[We're on Boost]

I figured I would be ok to use it since it states it breaks down in tranny oil. Good for bearings surfaces during critical start-up before lubrication from oil takes over.

Dont wanna risk anything doing a fully built motor.

I don't know man, it might be perfectly fine but how would you know? I looked at their web site hoping to find out if it is a soap based grease, like wheel bearing grease and so on. They don't say, and I couldn't even find an MSDS which would more or less give ingredients. All they talk about is trannys, not a word about engines. It could just be that there is a reason! I would not put a large amount of any soap based grease in an engine because I'd be worried about what it would do in the rings and on the cylinder walls where it gets way hotter than the inside of a tranny. Vaseline should be ok for a short time because it is just mineral oil, no soap. Assembly lubes that are designed to be used in engines should be ok, like the Clevite one mentioned above. This is an interesting subject and I wish I had time to look into it more. The only engine assy lubes I've ever used were made specifically for engine assy, and were used in small quantities.
Take me with a grain of salt because I've never rebuilt a mitsu engine. Only Alfa Romeo, Mercedes gas, and Peugeot gas engines. Yeah Peugeot - stop laughing!

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Some people have voiced concerns about using wheel bearing grease in the oil pump as it may not dissolve in oil and clog up an oil passage somewhere. Thoughts?

 

[We're on Boost]

Hey if I have time on Monday I'll call these Assemblee Goo people in Seattle and see what I can find out. I found out today that Vaseline has a melting temp of about 167 deg F, whereas the stated melting temps for green and blue assee goo are about 40 degrees lower than that - pretty low, which would be a good thing. The soap based greases (like wheel bearing grease) I'm familiar with have melting temps much higher than vaseline. So I'm thinking maybe this assee goo stuff is just a lower molecular weight version of vaseline, kind of in-between liquid mineral oil and vaseline. If that's what it is it should be great for what you are talking about, inside the front cover of the engine. I'll try to remember to ask them why they don't say anything about using it inside an engine.

Gary

 

[TSIfreek]

I would not loose any sleep over using it.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

I would not loose any sleep over using it.

yay!

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Awesome. The DSM gods have shit upon me yet again. I let the Right Stuff gasket maker cure on the oil pan for 48 hours. So I put in 5 qts of oil and spun the oil pump gear with my air ratchet (not impact gun). I did it three times for about a minute each....nothing.

Looks like I'll be pulling the head tomorrow. Then I'll LITERALLY have rebuilt the motor in the car after rebuilding it outside of the car. Lesson learned. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE OIL PRESSURE BEFORE DROPPING IN NEW MOTOR! FTL!
__________________

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Awesome. The DSM gods have shit upon me yet again. I let the Right Stuff gasket maker cure on the oil pan for 48 hours. So I put in 5 qts of oil and spun the oil pump gear with my air ratchet (not impact gun). I did it three times for about a minute each....nothing.

Looks like I'll be pulling the head tomorrow. Then I'll LITERALLY have rebuilt the motor in the car after rebuilding it outside of the car. Lesson learned. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE OIL PRESSURE BEFORE DROPPING IN NEW MOTOR! FTL!
__________________

You will need more RPMs then what an air ratchet can deliver to prime the pump... I had to use an 18v cordless drill (in top gear) to get my new cover primed. -It took about a full 45 seconds before I started hearing air bubbles from oil cap hole. I kept on running it until I could see oil comming out of the roller's oil ports, with no air bubbles.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

You will need more RPMs then what an air ratchet can deliver to prime the pump... I had to use an 18v cordless drill (in top gear) to get my new cover primed. -It took about a full 45 seconds before I started hearing air bubbles from oil cap hole. I kept on running it until I could see oil comming out of the roller's oil ports, with no air bubbles.

Hmm...sounds like I should try that before ripping off the head. My little air tank/air ratchet combo probably wasn't enough. I have a drill, just need to get some type adapter so I can get a 14mm socket on there.....

 

[twicks69]

Why don't you disconnect your ignition and crank the engine? If you did it how I described, you should build pressure pretty easily by cranking the engine.

 

[We're on Boost]

Why don't you disconnect your ignition and crank the engine? If you did it how I described, you should build pressure pretty easily by cranking the engine.

Hmm, yeah, the Haynes manual says to do exactly this, plus they say to take the spark plugs out first so the motor spins faster, and I suppose having the plugs out reduces the load on the rod bearings too.

 

[twicks69]

Hmm, yeah, the Haynes manual says to do exactly this, plus they say to take the spark plugs out first so the motor spins faster, and I suppose having the plugs out reduces the load on the rod bearings too.

Well yeah, you would have no compression, therefore no pressure on the bearings other than rotational friction.

 

[TSIfreek]

Well yeah, you would have no compression, therefore no pressure on the bearings other than rotational friction.

I did that on a buddys car and it wasnt cranking fast enough to build any oil pressure.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Well I picked up a bit for my drill so I can put a 14mm socket on it. I will just sit there and spin and see what happens. If not, I'll try cranking the motor, but that means I'll have to put the T-belt back on.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

I got a drill bit attachment where I could use a 14mm socket. I used my electric drill and spun it for 3-4 minutes straight. Nothing came up on the head. I removed the oil pressure sending unit and spun the pump for half a second and oil came SHOOTING out.

I am at an utter loss at the moment. It seems to me that my BRAND NEW oil pump is working fine. I didn't see any oil leaks after spinning for 3 minutes, oil comes out of the OFH when I spin the pump, but nothing comes through the head. It seems like the oil passage in the head is blocked, BUT earlier I used the method of pumping oil directly into the OFH and heard air escaping through the cylinder head. Now I figure if air can escape, so can oil, especially after spinning it this much.

The last thing I can think to do is remove the head and port out the oil passage. I was just really hoping I didn't have to do that. I'm tired of this bullshit, getting very frustrated, and DESPERATELY cannot afford to spend any more money on this car right now.

 

[twicks69]

Seriously, it is not a problem. You have confirmed that you are getting oil pressure in the block. If you are using normal parts, and know the head is good, the gaskets are all on properly, and the parts were properly cleaned, put the darn car together and turn it on. You know you have oil; the head will pressurize pretty fast when it gets running. Just put some assembly lube on all the moving parts (you already should have when the head was assembled), and turn it on.

You can always shut the car off. You know your main bearings and rod bearings are getting oil that is the most important part. The valvetrain at idle can deal with it for several seconds if you have them lubed prior to starting with assembly lube on the moving parts.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Twicks69, what you said totally makes sense. I'm just super nervous if there in face is an issue getting oil to the head and something important breaks. This is my first motor build, and I want it to go right.

Can anyone else comment on this idea? I just don't understand why I would see oil coming out the head when priming it like this.

 

[TSIfreek]

Twicks69, what you said totally makes sense. I'm just super nervous if there in face is an issue getting oil to the head and something important breaks. This is my first motor build, and I want it to go right.

Can anyone else comment on this idea? I just don't understand why I would see oil coming out the head when priming it like this.

Most likely your not spinning it fast enough. I agree with tim with getting the motor together you should have instant oil pressue. If your freaked out the head is getting oil pressure remove the cap while its running you should see it flowing.

 

[twicks69]

Most likely your not spinning it fast enough. I agree with tim with getting the motor together you should have instant oil pressue. If your freaked out the head is getting oil pressure remove the cap while its running you should see it flowing.

Exactly.

 

[We're on Boost]

Wait a minute. You are putting a 7-bolt head on a 6-bolt block, 12mm head studs? Or the head has been milled? Have you seen this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

This thread raged for 4 pages. In the end I think the conclusion was there are a lot of ways to screw up oil flow to the head and 1 or 2 good ways to fix it.

Oh yeah, here's mod #2: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341625-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod-2-a.html and if the measurements in this mod #2 thread are correct (.465" stud diameter inside a .470" hole without the mod!) then I would think this mod would be needed (reaming the hole).

I know what you mean about not being able to spend any more money. Right now most of my car plans are on hold for about a year while I work through a big problem that Chase bank is causing me - change of terms on a big loan. FU award of the year goes to them this year, for sure.

Gary

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Oh yeah, here's mod #2: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341625-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod-2-a.html and if the measurements in this mod #2 thread are correct (.465" stud diameter inside a .470" hole without the mod!) then I would think this mod would be needed (reaming the hole).

This makes a lot of sense. It is enough room to hear air escape, but probably not enough room to get oil past without significant pressure forcing it through that TINY hole.

Either way, the head is coming off today much to my dismay. I'll probably have to buy a new headgasket since I used an OEM composite and it probably won't be in tact when I take the head off. Hopefully that will be my only added expense.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll report back when this is done, but I'm going on vacation this week so it may be a while.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

I decided to post updates to my other thread since this is no longer related to the oil pump.Link.