Boostdriven
10+ Year Contributor
- 622
- 14
- Jan 7, 2010
-
Pasco,
Washington
I posted this in Mike1992's thread (holset HX35 oiling) but since it was on page 6 with already over populated thread, I figured it might be a good idea to start a new thread so more people can see what I would consider valuable information.
This relates to both HX35 and HX40 turbos since they are the same chra with different size wheels.
Just before I switch to HX52 I had a HX40 on my car for about 6 or so years but because I was experimenting with other turbos I put between 10k-15k on that HX40. It's whole life its been fed from an OFH with an original #6 holset fitting in the chra and a #6 steel braided fuel line. My oil pressure fully warmed up at idle is about 25 psi and at 2500 rpms is about 50 psi, by red line its about 80-100 psi.
A little while ago when I still ran the HX40 I ended up buying a 62mm compressor wheel as an upgrade so in the process of changing the wheel I thought I might as well take the whole thing apart and look everything over. At this time turbo had about 8k-10k miles on it. When I took it apart, the shaft looked perfect, no excessive heat marks, the piston ring on the exhaust side didn't look all sludged up and a little bit of starting fluid cleaned up whatever was there. The heat shield on the inside didn't have any burned oil on it. I put that thing together and it ran perfect to about few days ago when I took it off to replace it with HX52. Turbo ran 26-35 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
My friend Tristen (dsmcurse) has his HX40 for about the same period of time, fed with the same #6 line from an OFH with relatively same oil pressure. Turbo runs 30-35 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
My friend Justin has a HX35 on his daily driver that he drives to school and work. He bought that HX35 used from a junk yard with about 100k miles on it. I have not rebuilt it for him yet but its been on his car for about 9 months now. It's fed with the same #6 line I have on my car. No smoking, no issues. Turbo runs 26 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
Now let me tell you about a friend who wasn't so fortunate with his HX40. He bought this thing brand new and decided to use a #4 line and feed it from the head. Turns out it wasn't such a good idea. After about 600-800 miles the turbo started to smoke. So I took it apart it and right away I could see the cause of failure. The shaft was blue and the exhaust bearing was black. When I asked him what his egts were at cruise or wot he said between 1100 at cruise and about 1400-1500 after going through few gears so nothing out of ordinary. The only thing that wasn't ordinary was oil supply. Turbo ran only 20 psi. Stock oil return line.
I have another friend who has a 98 dodge ram 5.9l cummins. That truck has about 230k miles on it with an original HX35. I asked him what his oil pressure was, he said at idle its about 50 psi and at 3200rpms its about 90-100 and that's fully warmed up. That turbo is fed straight from the block with a #6 line.
My next door neighbor has the same truck with 250k miles on it with an original HX35, same oil pressure, same oil feed line.
The list goes on and on but I think you get the point.
Holset turbos are not your topical POS Garrett or Mitsubishi that in most cases is cooled by water. Every bit of cooling on the holset turbo is done by oil. I'm almost sure that if you were to take the water lines of a 14b or a 16g and feed it from the head like stock, that turbo is not going to last very long.
Some of you may say, diesel engines don't put out 120 psi of oil pressure like some of our DSMs, well I'll say that diesel engines don't put out as high of egts as some of our DSMs.
I've been around holset turbos for number of years and I've seen them fail for several different reason. Under feeding it with oil was #1. I've seen them fail because of really hot egts where the rear bearing gets so hot that it loses it integrity and starts to wear out causing excessive shaft play and shortly after the turbo starts to smoke. Improperly installed snap rings that hold the bearing in might cause the turbo to smoke, the same goes for the piston ring on the exhaust side. If your oil return is smaller on the inside then your oil feed line on the outside, its probably a good idea to get something larger. If you don't have good crank case ventilation, pressure in the crank case will push the oil past the piston ring. There are many variables that could cause the turbo to smoke and fail, let's not blame it on "to much" oil. I have never seen a holset fail because of to much oil was supplied to it, at least not by a normal functioning DSM. Now garrett turbos are a different story and we are not talking about garrett. I never liked them anyways.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just sharing some information from experience. So if you want to run a BEP .55 bolt on housing on you HX40 or HX35 running 30+ psi of boost with exhaust pressures damn near double and egts through the roof, on top of that you want to put a restrictor in it, well be my guest. It's money out of your pocket not my.
Fortunately those holsets are not that expensive
Now some of you might be running a holset with a restrictor and it might work for you but not all of us are fortunate to have good oil pressure in our DSMs. Just because it works for you don't mean it will work for a guy who has half the oil pressure you have and just because its been working for you SO FAR don't mean your holset will last you 100,000+ miles. There is no reason why a holset shouldn't last 100,000+ miles considering they go 250,000+ miles on a diesel truck pulling loads heavier then your car.
This relates to both HX35 and HX40 turbos since they are the same chra with different size wheels.
Just before I switch to HX52 I had a HX40 on my car for about 6 or so years but because I was experimenting with other turbos I put between 10k-15k on that HX40. It's whole life its been fed from an OFH with an original #6 holset fitting in the chra and a #6 steel braided fuel line. My oil pressure fully warmed up at idle is about 25 psi and at 2500 rpms is about 50 psi, by red line its about 80-100 psi.
A little while ago when I still ran the HX40 I ended up buying a 62mm compressor wheel as an upgrade so in the process of changing the wheel I thought I might as well take the whole thing apart and look everything over. At this time turbo had about 8k-10k miles on it. When I took it apart, the shaft looked perfect, no excessive heat marks, the piston ring on the exhaust side didn't look all sludged up and a little bit of starting fluid cleaned up whatever was there. The heat shield on the inside didn't have any burned oil on it. I put that thing together and it ran perfect to about few days ago when I took it off to replace it with HX52. Turbo ran 26-35 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
My friend Tristen (dsmcurse) has his HX40 for about the same period of time, fed with the same #6 line from an OFH with relatively same oil pressure. Turbo runs 30-35 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
My friend Justin has a HX35 on his daily driver that he drives to school and work. He bought that HX35 used from a junk yard with about 100k miles on it. I have not rebuilt it for him yet but its been on his car for about 9 months now. It's fed with the same #6 line I have on my car. No smoking, no issues. Turbo runs 26 psi of boost. Stock oil return line.
Now let me tell you about a friend who wasn't so fortunate with his HX40. He bought this thing brand new and decided to use a #4 line and feed it from the head. Turns out it wasn't such a good idea. After about 600-800 miles the turbo started to smoke. So I took it apart it and right away I could see the cause of failure. The shaft was blue and the exhaust bearing was black. When I asked him what his egts were at cruise or wot he said between 1100 at cruise and about 1400-1500 after going through few gears so nothing out of ordinary. The only thing that wasn't ordinary was oil supply. Turbo ran only 20 psi. Stock oil return line.
I have another friend who has a 98 dodge ram 5.9l cummins. That truck has about 230k miles on it with an original HX35. I asked him what his oil pressure was, he said at idle its about 50 psi and at 3200rpms its about 90-100 and that's fully warmed up. That turbo is fed straight from the block with a #6 line.
My next door neighbor has the same truck with 250k miles on it with an original HX35, same oil pressure, same oil feed line.
The list goes on and on but I think you get the point.
Holset turbos are not your topical POS Garrett or Mitsubishi that in most cases is cooled by water. Every bit of cooling on the holset turbo is done by oil. I'm almost sure that if you were to take the water lines of a 14b or a 16g and feed it from the head like stock, that turbo is not going to last very long.
Some of you may say, diesel engines don't put out 120 psi of oil pressure like some of our DSMs, well I'll say that diesel engines don't put out as high of egts as some of our DSMs.
I've been around holset turbos for number of years and I've seen them fail for several different reason. Under feeding it with oil was #1. I've seen them fail because of really hot egts where the rear bearing gets so hot that it loses it integrity and starts to wear out causing excessive shaft play and shortly after the turbo starts to smoke. Improperly installed snap rings that hold the bearing in might cause the turbo to smoke, the same goes for the piston ring on the exhaust side. If your oil return is smaller on the inside then your oil feed line on the outside, its probably a good idea to get something larger. If you don't have good crank case ventilation, pressure in the crank case will push the oil past the piston ring. There are many variables that could cause the turbo to smoke and fail, let's not blame it on "to much" oil. I have never seen a holset fail because of to much oil was supplied to it, at least not by a normal functioning DSM. Now garrett turbos are a different story and we are not talking about garrett. I never liked them anyways.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just sharing some information from experience. So if you want to run a BEP .55 bolt on housing on you HX40 or HX35 running 30+ psi of boost with exhaust pressures damn near double and egts through the roof, on top of that you want to put a restrictor in it, well be my guest. It's money out of your pocket not my.
Fortunately those holsets are not that expensive
Now some of you might be running a holset with a restrictor and it might work for you but not all of us are fortunate to have good oil pressure in our DSMs. Just because it works for you don't mean it will work for a guy who has half the oil pressure you have and just because its been working for you SO FAR don't mean your holset will last you 100,000+ miles. There is no reason why a holset shouldn't last 100,000+ miles considering they go 250,000+ miles on a diesel truck pulling loads heavier then your car.