Hesitation after new air filter

[tybucki]

OK so I picked up a 91 Eclipse GS with a 1.8 last weekend from an impound auction. After I took care of registration titling etc etc it was time for the tune up. New plugs, oil, and filter saturday, new wires and a K&N air filter monday. I installed the air filter in the parking lot when I bought it and headed home. After about 15 minutes I was off the freeway and back on surface streets and noticed several bouts of hesitation with the engine dropping RPMs while driving for a few seconds and then it stopped and did it again a few more times before I got home. I was home for about an hour and a half before I went to work and the problem did not resurface on the drive to work or the drive home from work. Not sure wether its relevant but the clutch was empty when I bought the car so I had to bleed it and I'm not sure if I got it completely bled so not sure if that has anything to do with it either. Any ideas

 

[redyute1]

Check the clamp she is probably sucking air after the maf

 

[theSicKness]

Sounds like one of the wires install isnt making proper contact. Recheck the coils and make sure everything is pressed on and tight.



Jesse

 

[tybucki]

We can safely rule out the plugs/wires. The condition doesnt present while idling and if the problem was spark/ignition related it would be constant not sporadic and only when the car is run for a while.

 

[skatershawn]

I would recheck all intake hoses, a vacuum leak can cause this, then work at looking at the wires, plugs, and distributor if there is no leaks!
After that, i would pop the ECU out, open her up and see what the caps look like!
This is similar to what happen to my DL.. Glad it did because the out come was me building a 6 bolt and swapping it in my DL!!

 

[DirtyDave21]

+1 check leaks!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

We can safely rule out the plugs/wires. The condition doesnt present while idling and if the problem was spark/ignition related it would be constant not sporadic and only when the car is run for a while.

That's not true. What kind of plugs and wires are you using?

I had a similar experience on my 1g N/T and it turned out it was the crappy Accell spark plug wires. I replaced them with a new set of the factory 7mm NGK's and no more problems!

 

[tybucki]

I've got Bosch Platinum +4s with 7mm BWD wires. The car has problems running when it first starts until it warms up a little bit so I'm reconsidering the ignition/distributor as a source of the problem and when it has warmed up and ran for more than 20 minutes the hesitation problem presents but when I push in on the clutch or have the car in neutral it abates so I'm also thinking that there may still be some air in the clutch so I'm going to re-bleed that again this weekend and hope it helps. Havent noticed any vaccum leaks and when I pull vacum lines and plug em with my thumb it about kills the engine so I'm not sure if that's part of the problem or not. Any new ideas?

 

[ktgurl87]

I have never heard anything good about Bosch +4's. For that motor I'm not sure if it would still be good with the NGK's, someone will probably chime in. The NGK number that everyone else uses is the BPR6ES gapped to .028 - .030. Changing plugs might help a whole lot.

 

[dsmpat95]

I have never heard anything good about Bosch +4's. For that motor I'm not sure if it would still be good with the NGK's, someone will probably chime in. The NGK number that everyone else uses is the BPR6ES gapped to .028 - .030. Changing plugs might help a whole lot.

He is a non turbo, so his gap should be between 0.039-0.043.

 

[ktgurl87]

He is a non turbo, so his gap should be between 0.039-0.043.

Yeah I wasn't totally positive on the gap for that motor. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[tybucki]

OK I guess I'll go pick up some NGKs tomorrow and see if it helps

 

[tybucki]

OK put the NGKs in two days ago and no change. Still dealing with variable RPMS at idle and about a minute of rough running on cold startups. After I got home from work today I sat in the car and watched the idle go from 1000 to 500 to 1200 back to 500 and up to about 800 in about a 10 second span while sitting still in the driveway. Any more ideas?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

OK put the NGKs in two days ago and no change. Still dealing with variable RPMS at idle and about a minute of rough running on cold startups. After I got home from work today I sat in the car and watched the idle go from 1000 to 500 to 1200 back to 500 and up to about 800 in about a 10 second span while sitting still in the driveway. Any more ideas?

No change? This is an entirely different issue then your first post. This issue is called Idle Surge and is a very common issue, usually a problem with your Fast Idle Air Valve (FIAV), a dirty or leaking Throttle Body (TB), a bad Idle Speed Controller (ISC), misadjusted or leaking Base Idle Speed Screw (BISS), or even caps leaking in the ECU. The FIAV is the lower portion of your TB and it has 2 coolant lines running to it. When the engine is cold, the FIAV causes the ECU to raise the idle so that it will warm up faster. It is in this period of higher idle that you are having a problem with your idle surging.

Check out these links:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/259300-fiav.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/2198-idle-surge-very-bad-need-help.html
Terry's Talon Troubleshooting Tips #3 - Fast Idle (aka. Idle Surge)
TB Cleaning
1G BISS Adjustment
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/364030-idle-speed-control-not-good.html

Also do a search for "idle surge" under "titles only" and you will find 310 threads of people with the same problem as you.

Hope this helps!

OK so I picked up a 91 Eclipse GS with a 1.8 last weekend from an impound auction. After I took care of registration titling etc etc it was time for the tune up. New plugs, oil, and filter saturday, new wires and a K&N air filter monday. I installed the air filter in the parking lot when I bought it and headed home. After about 15 minutes I was off the freeway and back on surface streets and noticed several bouts of hesitation with the engine dropping RPMs while driving for a few seconds and then it stopped and did it again a few more times before I got home. I was home for about an hour and a half before I went to work and the problem did not resurface on the drive to work or the drive home from work. Not sure wether its relevant but the clutch was empty when I bought the car so I had to bleed it and I'm not sure if I got it completely bled so not sure if that has anything to do with it either. Any ideas

Also are you still having your issue with hesitation on the highway?

 

[joOse]

Like the wise man said its definately an idle surge issue. But just as an added point, anytime you swap out stock filters for high flow filters or increase the airflow by any means you have to re-adjust your biss you compensate for the increase in airflow.

 

[tybucki]

OK so since there were NO problems before I changed the air filter I'm going to assume the issues is the BISS and start there and see what happens. Thanks for the new input

Umm ok so I was outside just now and I can't find the BISS from the pictures in the link you provided. I did see a screw directly on the throtle body next to where the throttle cable connects, cant think of what its called right now, but nothing that looks like the pictures provided and my diagnostic plug is not the same as the one in the pics either. Maybe it's because I've got a 1.8 and the pics are from a 2.0?

 

[tybucki]

OK so last weekend I pulled the intake off the car and found thick carbon build up inside the throttle body and a nasty oil/carbon sludge inside the plenum, and a little carbon inside the manifold. Took apart and cleaned the TB, took the plenum to the local car wash and sprayed it out with the high pressure soap setting, my wifes idea and damn did it work well, and wiped out the manifold and threw together a plate to block of the EGR. Got the new gasket set tuesday on the way to work and put the car back together wednesday morning. Now the car fires up right away on start up, no more hesitation and sputter or accelerator tapping to get it going and the idle is about as steady as you can hope for a car with 282000 miles on it. So it looks like my Idle surge is ok now but I'm still having slight hesitation/surge while I'm actually driving the car. As stated initially the clutch was empty when I got the car and I had to bleed it to get the car going and now I've noticed that the clutch appears to be leaking, I've had to top it off about once a week and I dont think hydraulic fluid evaporates from a sealed system, so I'm thinking that whenever I lose a little fluid I'm getting a touch of air in the clutch and it's causing the clutch to just barely release and then catch again when more fluid comes in to compensate for the loss. Anybody hear of anything like this happening before or know enough about hydraulic clutches to know if this is even a possibility?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

OK so last weekend I pulled the intake off the car and found thick carbon build up inside the throttle body and a nasty oil/carbon sludge inside the plenum, and a little carbon inside the manifold. Took apart and cleaned the TB, took the plenum to the local car wash and sprayed it out with the high pressure soap setting, my wifes idea and damn did it work well, and wiped out the manifold and threw together a plate to block of the EGR. Got the new gasket set tuesday on the way to work and put the car back together wednesday morning. Now the car fires up right away on start up, no more hesitation and sputter or accelerator tapping to get it going and the idle is about as steady as you can hope for a car with 282000 miles on it. So it looks like my Idle surge is ok now but I'm still having slight hesitation/surge while I'm actually driving the car.

The 1.8's didn't even come with an EGR system. They came from the factory with an EGR block off plate. Glad you got it cleaned up and working better. For next time, brake cleaner works great on intake sludge.

 

[tybucki]

The 1.8's didn't even come with an EGR system. They came from the factory with an EGR block off plate. Glad you got it cleaned up and working better. For next time, brake cleaner works great on intake sludge.

Well that's news to the engine sitting in the car in my driveway. It does have an EGR valve and it was flowing freely back into the intake until I blocked it off yesterday. The TB cleaning link you provided earlier has a link in it about blocking off the EGR which has a link in it to a blown up schematic style picture of the EGR and where to place the block off plate. Not sure where you got this information from since everything else you've said has been spot on. Thanks for you help BTW. Still looking for any input anybody has on that leaky clutch theory.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Well that's news to the engine sitting in the car in my driveway. It does have an EGR valve and it was flowing freely back into the intake until I blocked it off yesterday. The TB cleaning link you provided earlier has a link in it about blocking off the EGR which has a link in it to a blown up schematic style picture of the EGR and where to place the block off plate. Not sure where you got this information from since everything else you've said has been spot on. Thanks for you help BTW. Still looking for any input anybody has on that leaky clutch theory.

That article and schematic are both for 2.0 4G63 engines which yes, came with an EGR system. However the 1.8L 4G37's didn't, they came from the factory with an EGR blockoff plate.

Here is the schematic you were referring too, it's for a 2.0L 4G63.

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I just went and looked at my FSM and it turns out that all federal versions of the 4G37's came without an EGR system EXCEPT for the California emissions spec 4G37's, they came with an EGR. So you have a California car in Alaska. I apologize for the crappy cell phone pics but these are from the FSM on the 1.8L IM.

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#29 being the blockoff plate and #31 being the EGR valve on California vehicles.

Glad to help, thats what I'm here for.

 

[joOse]

Leave it to California to always make everything associated with cars more difficult and diverse!! Haha!

 

[tybucki]

OK I see and that makes sense in a way that makes no sense to a senseable person. GO CALI!!! On a side note I drove the car around for about an hour and a half today and it's running much better.

 

[tybucki]

OK so all signs pointed to a leaking clutch slave cylinder so I replaced it with a new one on monday, figured $13 for the rebuild kit and 15 for the new I'll splurge, and after the oh so fun bleeding process the car is shifting better over the last 2 days. Gonna keep an eye on it and see if its still leaking over the next week or two and give an update on how the car is doing over all after this patch.

 

[DSM1G90]

He needs to get rid of that POS K&N filter and go back to the stock paper one. FRAM CA-6362, or equivalent.

And use the aircan-don't hack it up, or eliminate it.

It's a waste of time to modify intake material with a 4G37 since it's a lawnmower engine that's not made for performance. 4G37's runs great in stock form only - you'll never get power out of them since they're not designed as such.

He shoved in that filter that's allowing more airflow and it's knocking his AF setpoints all out of wack and making him run super lean since those 210 injectors doesn't push that much fuel out.

He needs BPR6ES-11, or Autolite 63's for his sparkplugs gapped at .044

-DSM

 

[tybucki]

I am still noticing a little idle surge but since I cleaned the intake it only surges up not down and never dies on me. I kept the filter that was in the car when I got it so I'll swap that back in and see if that helps and I allready swapped out the +4s for the NGK BPR6ES and I gapped em as close to 44 as I could. Since the slave cylinder swap I haven't had the surges while driving any more either and I havent noticed a drop in clutch fluid so I think that fixed the leaky clutch issue at least. I'm looking for a parts car local that has a 4G63 in it that is rebuildable to swap into the car do the two engines use the same filter so I didnt waste $60 on the K&N?