GVR-4 Help with cam timing marks

[Wrathvr4]

Hello, I'm currently reinstalling all the hardware into the cylinder head after having it resurfaced. While aligning the center cam gear marks, I noticed that the dowels aren't positioned at 12 o'clock. The timing marks on the Tomei cams were made by the previous owner, not by the factory. Is it possible that my car's timing was incorrect all along, or could I be overlooking something?

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[fourgsixty3]

Looks like Tomei likes to manufacture their cam gears like HKS and confuse the shit out of people.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/base-timing-hks-gears.533871/post-153802341

 

[Wrathvr4]

Looks like Tomei likes to manufacture their cam gears like HKS and confuse the shit out of people.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/base-timing-hks-gears.533871/post-153802341

Thanks for linking that! Great info. Basically the timing marks on my cams are definitely wrong. I have the cam tool installed but it would only install upside down which that alone tells me the cams are in wrong position. Hers a pic with the dowels at 12 and the outside marks aligned with the block, not to mention the tool now fits right way up

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[DSMPT]

Both pics seem to be incorrect. Those cam gears are for EVO 4-9. But you can use it by re-marking correctly. Upload a pic without the gear lock tool, then I can tell you how you should mark.

 

[Wrathvr4]

Both pics seem to be incorrect. Those cam gears are for EVO 4-9. But you can use it by re-marking correctly. Upload a pic without the gear lock tool, then I can tell you how you should mark.

If you need me to find better light let me know. Thanks.

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[DSMPT]

The lighting is good. But can you also upload a pic of each gear that is taken exactly from the front/center?

 

[Wrathvr4]

Hope this is right

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[Wrathvr4]

Here’s the best 12 o’clock I can get

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[DSMPT]

The markings by the previous owner is mixed up with the EVO 4-9 timing mark. So technically one tooth off.
Re-mark the horizontal timing mark on both gears as green in the pic below. That would make the dowel position at 12 o'clock.
Or you can actually use the previous owner's marks, but in that case you need to advance the gear center hub by one tooth (7.5 degree by the printed scale on the gear). But you will have less margin to adjust when you degree the cams.

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[Wrathvr4]

That’s one tooth off

The markings by the previous owner is mixed up with the EVO 4-9 timing mark. So technically one tooth off.
Re-mark the horizontal timing mark on both gears as green in the pic below. That would make the dowel position at 12 o'clock.
Or you can actually use the previous owner's marks, but in that case you need to advance the gear center hub by one tooth (7.5 degree by the printed scale on the gear). But you will have less margin to adjust when you degree the cams.

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Thanks mate appreciate it, So I have marked the right hand gear as mentioned and I assume the left gear is fine as it looks to be pretty straight with everything now

 

[DSMPT]

So I have marked the right hand gear as mentioned and I assume the left gear is fine as it looks to be pretty straight with everything now

No, not only one gear. You have to re-mark the both intake and exhaust gear. It's just I used the intake gear pic. Both gears are for EVO 4-9 and marked improperly by the previous owner.

BTW, if the valves/springs are already installed, be cautious when you move the cams without timing belt. If you rotate a lot, you may bend the valves.

 

[Wrathvr4]

No, not only one gear. You have to re-mark the both intake and exhaust gear. It's just I used the intake gear pic. Both gears are for EVO 4-9 and marked improperly by the previous owner.

BTW, if the valves/springs are already installed, be cautious when you move the cams without timing belt. If you rotate a lot, you may bend the valves.W

No, not only one gear. You have to re-mark the both intake and exhaust gear. It's just I used the intake gear pic. Both gears are for EVO 4-9 and marked improperly by the previous owner.

BTW, if the valves/springs are already installed, be cautious when you move the cams without timing belt. If you rotate a lot, you may bend the valves.

Im just a bit confused sorry with the exhaust cam. When I re marked the intake side it seems to be aligned now without changing markings on the left side. See pic

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[DSMPT]

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It looks closer than before but still incorrect. you must remark on the exhaust gear too. The exhaust gear is still one tooth retarded.

 

[Wrathvr4]

It looks closer than before but still incorrect. you must remark on the exhaust gear too. The exhaust gear is still one tooth retarded.

Valves bend just by moving the cam gears back and forth a tooth or two? Here’s another pic though

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[DSMPT]

Valves bend just by moving the cam gears back and forth a tooth or two?

Usually no. But it will bend in case if the intake and exhaust valves contact.

Here’s another pic though

Got even worse.. Just re-mark both cam gears as the pic I uploaded above and set the timing as DSM.

Make the green lines lined up in the cam gear lock tool window.

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[Wrathvr4]

Usually no. But it will bend in case if the intake and exhaust valves contact.


Got even worse.. Just re-mark both cam gears as the pic I uploaded above and set the timing as DSM.

Make the green lines lined up in the cam gear lock tool window.

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Thanks again mate appreciate the help

 

[fourgsixty3]

I'm not sure if this is an old set or what but Tomei has 2 different part numbers for DSM vs EVO 4-9 cam gears.
TA302A-MT01A (DSM/EVO 1-3) Old part #152011
TA302A-MT01B (EVO 4-9) Old part #152012

Looks like they're marking their gears now per application.

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I'm still trying to find a photo of their current DSM/EVO 1-3 cam gear to see if there are any differences or if it's the same gear minus the markings.

 

[DSMPT]

I'm not sure if this is an old set or what but Tomei has 2 different part numbers for DSM vs EVO 4-9 cam gears.
TA302A-MT01A (DSM/EVO 1-3) Old part #152011
TA302A-MT01B (EVO 4-9) Old part #152012

Looks like they're marking their gears now per application.

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I'm still trying to find a photo of their current DSM/EVO 1-3 cam gear to see if there are any differences or if it's the same gear minus the markings.

Without the "I-III" or "IV-IX" marking is the previous model. That's why I needed to see a pic that is taken from the front/center to make sure if it is for EVO 1-3 or 4-9.
Tomei gear is not sharing the same gear for both EVO 1-3 and 4-9. Not like the latest purple HKS gear. They sell separately for 1-3 and 4-9. The OP's gears were originally sold as it's for EVO 4-9.

How to distinguish is :
The EVO 4-9 gear does not have the horizontal timing marks. And the dowel pin hole doesn't line up with the vertical EVO 4-9 timing mark. (1 tooth off different)
The EVO 1-3/DSM gear has the horizontal timing marks. And the timing belt tooth count between the gear tooth that lines up with dowel pin hole and the horizontal timing mark is 12 teeth.

The previous owner marked the DSM horizontal timing mark on the wrong tooth, because he counted 12 teeth from the EVO 4-9 vertical timing mark instead of the tooth that lines up with dowel pin hole.
Now the OP's gears would look like the latest HKS gear. So it would look a bit off when he set the timing properly. But actually it's an optical illusion.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Some more pics I was able to find of the EVO 1-3 variety current and possibly previous version.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I looked at some over on STM's site and they didn't even have timing marks that the normal 4g63 has. That would be confusing.

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[fourgsixty3]

I looked at some over on STM's site and they didn't even have timing marks that the normal 4g63 has. That would be confusing.

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At least the new DSM ones have the horizontal timing marks and are labeled as such. I can't find a good photo of a legitimate first version of the gear unfortunately for the DSM/EVO 1-3.

 

[DSMPT]

Some more pics I was able to find of the EVO 1-3 variety current and possibly previous version.

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The 1st pic is the latest model (but it seems the one for EVO 1-3 got discontinued recently).
The 2nd pic is the previous model, like the OP's.
Before the previous one was with blue ring gear. And before that it was with modified OEM gear, like old HKS gears.

I looked at some over on STM's site and they didn't even have timing marks that the normal 4g63 has. That would be confusing.

At least the new DSM ones have the horizontal timing marks and are labeled as such. I can't find a good photo of a legitimate first version of the gear unfortunately for the DSM/EVO 1-3.

The horizontal timing mark is only for the early 4g63, EVO 1-3/DSM/GVR4 etc. That's why the EVO 4-9 gears don't have the horizontal timing marks.

The 1st pic below is the EVO 4-9 gear, the same as the OP's. So I asked him to re-mark as blue.
And the 2nd pic below is the EVO 1-3 gear. You can see the dowel pin hole position is different from the EVO 4-9 gear.

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[Wrathvr4]

My valves slapped the pistons when I ran it with the evo 4-9 timing marks however it seems like no valves bent, machine shop vac tested seal and it passed. Wondering if I should be testing for anything else?

 

[DSMPT]

My valves slapped the pistons when I ran it with the evo 4-9 timing marks however it seems like no valves bent, machine shop vac tested seal and it passed. Wondering if I should be testing for anything else?

If it passed vac test, then the valves probably didn't hit the pistons. If they are sealing well, no need to test more.

 

[Wrathvr4]

If it passed vac test, then the valves probably didn't hit the pistons. If they are sealing well, no need to test more.

There has definitely been contact with the valves and pistons, this could also be a piston to valve clearance issue. It was at 5.185 with oem mls and 1mm oversized ferrea valves before I had .005 shaved off so I’m under service limit now but looking to make it up with Hks 1.6mm stopper

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