Help! Do I have crankwalk??

[stevecbr929]

95 2g Talon TSi 186,xxx miles & all stock except non-recirculating bov, & injen intake.

All started about 1 month ago - making the 1-2 shift & the engine just stopped - lights on, no engine. Towed back home, found balance belt in pieces - took out crank sensor & sensor blade of course. Did a compressioin check after it wouldn't start after replacing belt. Bent valves.

So, new head, carefully installed w/forum (thank you), & dsm shop manuel as guide. Did compression check once all was complete & all 4 have decent compression.

This is where I have no idea what's up. I tried to start & when it did, it shook REALLY bad, make a "squeeky" noise (vacuum?) sounded like it was in the throttle body area(?). When trying to start (I've since stopped trying), the starter will turn 1 or 2 times, then sound like it's hitting a big resistance and stops.

HELP!! Totally stuck & screwed without my car - thanks....

 

[Kaotic_red]

Check for crank play.

 

[JusMX141]

Ummm...did you think to check the crank end play at all while doing all of this work?

Basically we can't tell you if you have crankwalk or not.

 

[endeffect0]

before checking for crankwalk... just try to rotate the engine by hand with the spark plugs out. stick a ratchet on the main pulley. I bet you hit a lot of resistance trying to turn it over. dont over do it you can do more damage.

 

[stevecbr929]

Honestly, i didn't know to check for it until last few days. I asked the guy i bought the head from cause he said he had on his 95 gsx - his answer was "you either have it or you don't - you would've had it already."

I just didn't know enough about it. Looks like i'll pull plugs tomorrow to see if it's hard 2 turn by hand. I'll be back & thanks for your replys...

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well, honestly....none of that leads me to believe you have crankwalk.

You stated, plainly, that your belt went out, you did a timing job, bent valves..so I'd assume that you removed the head and replaced the valves. During that time did you have the proper machine work done to ensure that nothing else was damaged?

If it shakes badly it's likely because of a vacuum leak. You said you can hear a sort of whistling noise from around the Throttle body, correct? You need to check there and also check that you properly tightened the intake manifold to the head. If you did it out of sequence(or without a gasket) then it will not seal properly and cause a vacuum leak.

Do as told above and see if you can move the engine freely by hand at the crank. If you feel it hit something solid, you're in trouble and it's time to remove the head again and make sure you didn't mess up any valves... then back to a timing job. If you don't hit anything at all then your timing should be okay.

 

[iminadaze]

When trying to start (I've since stopped trying), the starter will turn 1 or 2 times, then sound like it's hitting a big resistance and stops.....

Don't rule out that this situation I quoted above could be the starter itself wearing out from all the cranking...

 

[stevecbr929]

Yes, heard noise by the tb - it sounded like some sort of vacuum leak - couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from but i'll check everything again tomorrow. I did in stall new gasket kit (everything I removed got new gasket on assembly). Very careful to install head, intake manifold, ect. by dsm manual/this forums directions (did my clutch about 6 months ago thanks to this forum).

When the balance belt broke (start of nightmare), it bent the crank sensor blade (belt bunched up), which sheared the timing belt which bent valves After new head install, i had no spark (didn't realize crank sensor was literally cut in half). Did a compression test again to make sure I hadn't hashed up the new head but all looked good on all 4.

Starter should be fine - i only turned it a few times (car make nasty sound - i dont want car to die - i stop).

Tomorrow gonna pull it all off again & do what you all suggested - ill look on here again to see if there are any other suggestions & will be back on once i get the crank movin...

 

[TurboFritz]

you should probably check to make sure nothing from your valve mashing got into the oil pan and is playin with your crank and also do another compression check now that this started maybe something went wrong since the last one where it sounded like everything was going smooth??? did you replace this bent up trigger plate that the belt bent?? and once again spin it by hand like said before, if the plugs are out there should be no compression and she should spin if not... well start tear it down again and find out what ya did wrong

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

｡◕‿‿◕｡

Thanks for the clarity. Did you replace the crank sensor?

 

[SpawnedX]

Why is it always crankwalk?

 

[stevecbr929]

yes & yes - i replaced the crank sensor blade (tried to straighten old but there wasn't a way in hell) & replaced the sensor as well. Didn't know sensor was bad - car wasn't throwing any codes, but i still wasn't getting any spark. Off with the timing belt again once i saw a pic of what the sensor looks like - oh, ok so mines the trick lightweight version that's cut in half...i wish.

Replaced the sensor, got spark - cool. Car sounds not good - bad. Ill see what happens tomorrow - really hope its something besides crankwalk...

 

[saechao04]

I would also check your firing order, sounds simple, but it's often overlooked and it takes only a few minutes to double check.

 

[stevecbr929]

That was the first thing i checked it goes from timing belt: 1234 then marked on coil pack 4123 - yeah? That's how i have it set up & was the first thing i thought was wrong with it - would barely idle - weird vacuum sounding whine - car just sounds angry in a bad way.

its just not right man.

 

[TurboFritz]

yea your wires should go like that unless for some reason you have a 6 bolt swap or a 6 bolt CAS, then you would need to go from 4123 to 3214 on the pack. so does the car actually start?? is it just really rough sounding when it is running if it does or during cranking???

 

[SpawnedX]

Are you guys forgetting that if he has a 97 to 99 ECU in the car he has to swap the wires. Take your ECU out and run the part number.

 

[TurboFritz]

well either way i mean it would be noticable which way is right by just swappin them and cranking, one will say HA no way in hell and one might just start so i mean there is no reason to go all out and start tearin ecu's out

 

[jl1212]

Did you check that everything is timed correctly? Atleast with the 1gs, you have to time the balance shaft/crankshaft/camshaft all together, and getting the balance shaft in just the right spot can be a real pain. The cams being a tooth or two off can also cause some nastiness.

I put a motor back together once with the balance shaft 180* out and it made some pretty harsh vibrations. Just somewhere else to look.

 

[smprende10]

i agree with jl... setting the timing on these motors is a pain. do some research but i'm pretty sure its 2 teeth back on the crank but cant remember for sure. Took a couple tries the first time i did it

 

[AllShallPerish]

Its not hard to check for play in the crank...

 

[luv2rallye]

Measuring crank end play: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-check-crankshaft-end-play.html#post151703279

 

[96eclipzGsT]

You have the crank sensor trigger plate on backwards!

 

[stevecbr929]

ok - thanks for all the info guys - my ecu is stock 95 - never been outta the car. When i did my timing, what the forum & dsm manuel says is the exhaust cam will probably rotate counter clockwise once i tighten the belt so rotate the exhaust cam 1 tooth clockwise to compensate. I did & once the belt was tentioned right, the marks on cam sprockets matched up perfectly.

Same with marks on crank, oil pump pulley as well. They said it was possible to have oil pump pulley 180 out as well but to point mark straight up and let it fall. If mark goes clockwise, it needs another turn on pulley - counterclockwise, you got it right, so that's what i did.

Ok - so today, i went and pulled the plugs, put a socket on the crank. still had all belts on ect...it wasn't too hard to turn, but there were definitely spots where there was resistance, and spots where there was none at all. What does that mean???

The car did start the other day once all the work was done, like i said though - she just sounded angry. Squeeling (vacuum?), not responding to any throttle, and not sounding (not 4 sure) like she was hitting on all 4.

The crank sensor blade was installed how the manuel shows - there's a key cut into it for the crank, and it shows the key & and notch setup so that's how i installed it. I also checked the thrashed out stock one, and you can see which side the sprocket was on so i installed the new one the same way.

My block is all stock 7 bolt - sounds like the 6 is the way to go.

If this is crankwalk, is that something i can get to by dropping the oil pan, or would i have to pull the engine?

Let me know what you guys think & thank you again for taking your time to answer my questions.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Ok - so today, i went and pulled the plugs, put a socket on the crank. still had all belts on ect...it wasn't too hard to turn, but there were definitely spots where there was resistance, and spots where there was none at all. What does that mean???

There should always be a little resistance as there are points where all of the pistons stop turning for a split second and reverse direction. Removing the plugs just allows for you to turn the engine easier as you aren't fighting against compression being built up when the pistons reach the apex of their stroke.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

ok - thanks for all the info guys - my ecu is stock 95 - never been outta the car. When i did my timing, what the forum & dsm manuel says is the exhaust cam will probably rotate counter clockwise once i tighten the belt so rotate the exhaust cam 1 tooth clockwise to compensate. I did & once the belt was tentioned right, the marks on cam sprockets matched up perfectly.

Same with marks on crank, oil pump pulley as well. They said it was possible to have oil pump pulley 180 out as well but to point mark straight up and let it fall. If mark goes clockwise, it needs another turn on pulley - counterclockwise, you got it right, so that's what i did.

Ok - so today, i went and pulled the plugs, put a socket on the crank. still had all belts on ect...it wasn't too hard to turn, but there were definitely spots where there was resistance, and spots where there was none at all. What does that mean???

The car did start the other day once all the work was done, like i said though - she just sounded angry. Squeeling (vacuum?), not responding to any throttle, and not sounding (not 4 sure) like she was hitting on all 4.

The crank sensor blade was installed how the manuel shows - there's a key cut into it for the crank, and it shows the key & and notch setup so that's how i installed it. I also checked the thrashed out stock one, and you can see which side the sprocket was on so i installed the new one the same way.

My block is all stock 7 bolt - sounds like the 6 is the way to go.

If this is crankwalk, is that something i can get to by dropping the oil pan, or would i have to pull the engine?

Let me know what you guys think & thank you again for taking your time to answer my questions.

You can still put the trigger plate on backwards and the keyway will still line up. The car will crank, but run like shit and the throttle will not respond right. I know I have done it. I believe the lip bevels out away from the belt. Try turning the plate around if you are not 100% sure.