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Head Istalled-Have some questions***PIC

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GSXlaunch

15+ Year Contributor
392
0
Sep 3, 2003
TexasUS
I just installed the head on my 91GSX this morning. I am pretty sure everything was at tdc and everything was lined up. How can it be that all the lobes on both cams are exactly in the same position? It just seems weird to me. I am thinking the way the valves are located in the head the intake and exhaust vavles will still open at different times. Is this right or did I do something wrong. Here is the pic...

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/leche1103/vwp?.dir=/1991+GSX&.dnm=cam+lobes.jpg&.view=t

Secondly, assuming everthing is okay thus far, can I manualy turn the crank a few times before starting her up to make sure no valves will hit??? or is there an easier way to ensure I will not bend any valves? I used arp head studs and torqued them down to 85lbs....thanks for the help in advance.

TT
 
I was gonna do the heli coil but was concerned about metal particals in the oil passage. I have a short bolt in there now with some jb weld. Just enough to hold it until I can get it to a reputable shop that knows what they are doing. I have never heli coiled anything.

She is getting there. I just have to put it back together. I cant wait. I have wanted an awd for the last 5 years. Unfortunately the only opportunity that presented itself (that fell in my price range) was this 90 GSX that needed the vavle seals. So here we are...I plan on firing it up day after Thanksgiving. Thanks again for all the help.
 
MY NOTES IN CAPS FOR CLARITY - I'M NOT YELLING!!!


Originally posted by GSXlaunch
Thanks Buck. I must say (I can see the frowns already) I dont have the tensioning tool you mention.

YOU MUST HAVE HAD THE 8MM ROD? - THE OTHER ONE IS OPTIONAL IMO - I PUT A LONG SQUARE SHAFT SCREWDRIVER ON THE WATER PUMP BOLT THAT HOLDS THE ALTERNATOR BRACKET & PRY UP ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TENSIONER PULLEY & SIMULTANEOUSLY TIGHTEN THE 14MM BOLT ON THE TENSIONER - THEN CHECK THE GAP - IF THE TENSIONER SETTING IS CORRECT I THEN TORQUE THE 14MM BOLT & RECHECK THE SETTING - I SHOOT FOR THE MINIMUM DIMENSION.

I was going to order it but after some searching around here I found most people do this with out any special tools. So any how, just to make sure I got this correct: (everything is still off..t-belt cover, ps pump, water pump pulley...all I have now is the t-belt on and everything at tdc)

1. Check the width between hyd tensioner body and t-belt tensioner...(cant remember the size of the drill bit...I will find it later)

5/32 IS MY MINIMUM.

2. Once #1 checks out, I install the water pump pulley, along with the belt from wp-alt-crank.

YES.

3. Install radiator (filled with water only)

I WOULD PUT THE ANTI FREEZE 1 GALLON + 1 GALLON WATER IN NOW - YOU CAN REINSTALL THE ACCESSORIES WITH IT IN.

4. Install motor mount

YES.

MAKE SURE YOUR 8MM ROD IS BACKED OFF.

5. Crank it on and look for timing to be in the ball park...

Assuming it does idle decent...

CHECK IDLE

should I rev it to make sure the belt does not slip?

I WOULD CUT IT OFF & CHECK GAP FROM BELOW (A bi***) BEFORE I REVVED IT.

As for the SS oil line from RRE...unfortunately the stock head oil feed location stripped out. The shop where I had the 5 angle v-job done mistakingly capped it off.

WELL THEY HAD TO TAP IT TO PLUG IT - I PERSONALL WOULD RE-TAP & BUSHING BACK TOP ORIGINAL IF POSSIBLE - THIS MUST BE HOOKED UP PRIOR TO RUNNING THE ENGINE OF COURSE.

When I pulled the cap off it brought all the threads out with it. I have heard conflicting inputs on which route is best.

YES - I COULD BE WRONG - JUST MY OPINION..

Thanks again.

YOU ARE QUITE WELCOME

 
OK, I just checked the width between the hyd tensioner and the t-belt tensioner and 5/32 fit tightly but fit nonetheless. So with that, I am moving forward to #2 on the list below.

On a side note - I read over this entire post and I seem like a pita. So my apologies for all the questions and the dragging on. Here is the thing: This was the first time I removed the head on a 16v doch engine. I am use to push rod v-8s and my old Conquest soch 8-valve. To say this has been a learning experience is an understatement.
 
Dont worry about it man. What matters is that you get it done right. It is very important to ask such questions to make sure you know what the hell you are doing! Thats what we are here for. Everything is going to be fine, you will love that GSX!!
 
You better believe it brotha...! I just want this thing to run...seriously I am having dreams about driving it. I need to get a grip. I am grateful for the responses...and I will update this thread once I get it started...(assuming RRE shipped my ss line like they said)
 
It's a pleasure to help a sane guy who actually listens - unfortunately there are people that can't be helped - that's frustrating for everyone.

BTW - the Helicoil would be a piece of cake compared to the rest of this project...

Drove the Talon tonite - first really cool nite we've had here - it was happy.
 
Well I got my RRE SS oil line in yesterday...it is nice. Anyway, that is all I was really waiting on.

...and the dragging on continues...

Late last night (after I got my kids to bed) I went in the garage and tried putting the ex manifold back on. Well, for some reason I cannot get the manifold/turbo bolt holes to line up (I got rid of the stud). It seems line the turbo needs to move 1/4" up and 1/4" to the right. It will not budge. I assume it shifted from its own weight and the ex manifold being off. I guess I will stick my jack under the turbo using a block of wood and ever so slightly raise it until I can get the bolts to line up. Or should I unbolt the oil return line under the turbo so i can move it easier? That would mean I would need to order a gasket for the oil return right?
 
Yup mine does that same thing. LOL we have alot of the same probs...

It takes two people to bolt my turbo back up. One has to pull over on the turbo while the other has to pull up and try to get the bolts in. Its really fun. :rolleyes:

I dont know if the jack idea whould work. It will lift it up but you are still somehow going to have to get it moved over so ya can get the bolts in. I wouldnt disconnect the oil return line unless the turbo is THAT far off. It is made to flex a little bit, unlike the other lines.
 
Cool...somehow all the head rebuild/head gasket change pages I have read neglected to mention that phenomenon.

Well, I just got back from my lunch hour. I went to my friends place where he's got a couple of DSM 4G63's sitting in the back. I wanted to see how the belt tension felt on a running car. He told he just changed the t-belt and cleaned up the idler pulley. To my surprise there was quite a bit of play in the belt (between intake cam and idler pulley)...it felt mushy and a little loose. Basically it put any doubts I had about my belt being too loose to rest. The belt on my GSX feels just right. I am glad that I took the time to make sure I was not cutting any corners and I am grateful for all the help I've received here. Thanks

TT
 
Hey guys...hope your holidays went well. I just got her fired up about 15 minutes ago. Everything seemed good however I have three concerns:

a. the lifters are tapping like mad...I installed the "new style" lifters with the larger oil hole. I put them in with out filling them with oil since I read it could cause bent valves...How long will these bad boys tap? I let it idle for a good 5-7 minutes...it got up to operating temp and the tapping turned to a ticking (a bit less audible). If I reved the engine about 1500 it would go away. I do still have the front of the car on stands so the pan is at an angle. Will this have anything to do with it? I am thinking a short drive will eliminate this ticking...any ideas? Oh and I used penzoil 10w-40 for now. I am planning on changing it to synthetic before driving the car.

b. FPR is leaking fuel. As soon as I noticed it I shut her down...It was leaking a good amount. I am hoping a worm clamp will eliminate this problem

c. Fuel filter is leaking fuel. I got this filter from auto zone. Do I need to stick with oem for some reason?

Overall the car idled well...and fired right up. I reved it to 3k on one occasion once it reached operating temp and it felt smooth. I put the t-light to it and it is in the adjusting range (I dont have t-cover on yet). I still need to have the broken bolt removed from the head on the exhaust side. Although, I did not hear/feel any exhaust leaks. I cant wait to drive it....thanks again.
 
Mine ticked at first - the Synthetic alone may virtually eliminate that.

I take it that it's the overpressure line from the FPR as you mention a clamp - Not the FPR O-Ring inside the fuel rail.

Did you replace the copper washers above & below the banjo on top the Fuel Filter? Or is it the flare fitting on the bottom? BTW - a Fire Extinguisher in a garage is a GOOD THING... been there - done that.

Kinda neat how the ECU gets the timing in the ballpark if you have the CAS set right - I had to do only a minor adjustment to base timing & base idle after overhaul - using the jumpers of course.

Congrats - it's fun to light one off after it's been down for a while...
 
Sorry, I should have been more detailed in my response above. I did replace both copper washers on the fuel filter. I made sure that bad boy was tight...it wasnt gushing out but I could see where the surrounding area on top of the filter was getting wet with fuel. The bottom fitting seemed ok. As for the FPR...not sure. Just to make sure I am talking about the right part; it is the regulator on the driver's side of the fuel rail that is leaking. It looked like the hose was leaking but it could be the o-ring. Since I never removed the fpr from the rail, and it was not leaking before, I suspect the hose to be the problem. How long did your lifters tick? Did you have to drive it for a while for them to quiet down? When we replaced the head on my bro's Conquest Tsi the lifters ticked for a good 10 min. With the car running we opened the oil cap and poured in some STP oil treatment and the ticking immediately stopped. Could this stuff really help or just cause more problems?

One other question: The water pump-alt-crank pulleys dont seem to be lined up perfectly. The water pump and alt are dead on...but the crank seems a little further back then the water pump. So the belt is at a slight angle. Maybe I put the something on wrong. Again, I did not have the t-cover on but I dont think that has anything to do with this.

Thanks again!
 
NEW CONFIRMED INFO!!!!!! TABOO at Tabbo Speed Shop (posts here - mods "there" - very, very good source) confirmed my suspicions that the grenade ring on the Tensioner can be used to set the Tensioner Pin Gap - a.e. - When you can move the grenade ring in & out you are around minimum spec (where you want to be). You can do this method before reinstalling your Plastic Covers (from hell). I have cross-checked it with drill bit & it works. TYPICAL DSM POS Manual - doesn't tell you this - the damn translator didn't even know what the freaking pin was for... this pin is no doubt how they did it at the factory.

You may have picked up some trash at the upper Fuel Filter housing joint - you may have to disassemble & re-torque - make sure you put a wrench on the hex on top of the filter or you may have damaged filter, hence the leak at top hex... My new fuel Filter came with an Index part that keeps the fuel line from turning while you torque it - kinda cool - If your Filter is original might as well change it out - a good aftermarket store has the part now.

Yes the FPR is on Driver's end of Fuel Rail.

Mine ticked as long as I had the Dino Oil in it - Quit with Valvoline full Synthetic - I would NOT put STP in a DSM - nothing wrong with checking for leaks with your Dino Oil...

Some Water pumps have dowels for the pulley - If the P/S Pulley is "flopped" - (that's quite easy to do) it's seems like your crank would then be farther out from the motor so I don't understand the farther back part. Just remember that everything is as difficult as possible so the P/S Pulley goes on the hardest way to put the bolts in - of course - it's DSM... You don't have a bad crank Pulley do you? Very common - mine was "checking out"...
 
That is some good info regarding the pin...thanks.

As for the wp...it may be possible I had the outer wp pulley on back wards. When I took it off yesterday I noticed it was dished on one side more than the other...doh!! I wish the water pump had a dowel pin. It was a pita to get both pulleys lined up...hmmm?? That gets me thinking. There are two pulleys that go on the water pump correct? The power steering (goes on first); then the water pump pulley which mates with the ps pulley on the wp? The crank pulley seems okay imo.

I am picking up some Full Synthetic oil today as well as a good oil filter. I hope this quiets them down. I am going to run it with out the t-belt covers for about 50 miles just so I can check the belt and tensioner after each drive. I will try to keep under 4500rpm during this time.



Thanks Again.
 
You are going to find it much easier (still a PITA) to check the Tension from underneath with the grenade pin than a drill bit once you have the Water Pump & P/S pulleys on. I line up the water pump bolt hole with the "web" on the pump & then try & do something that takes 3 hands. A 1/4 inch drive ratchet, etc, is MANDATORY to get that front end of the motor back together, especially the covers.
 
Call me dumb but I am not too sure what you mean by the "web on the pump". Either way its going on tonight.

I am gonna try to get it on the ground tonight. I am so tired of seeing it on stands. Anyhow, I purchased the Vavoline 20w 50 in hopes of getting rid of the lifter tap (nothing has me worried more at this point)...The only filter they had in stock (Pepboys) was a regular Fram PH3950. Hopefully this will be sufficient enough for 50 or so miles before I change the oil again. If I can get it on the ground tonight I will post later with the results.

Regards
 
Web = the support in the casting towards the seal area - basically it's a point of reference to help line up all the damn Water Pump Pulley & P/S Pulley holes to the threaded bolt holes you can't see.

I've been happy with Valvoline 20W-50 Full Syn - some of the guys say they wouldn't run 20W but most of those guys are in the freaking Arctic - places like Wisconsin, etc... My car is in a garage even when it starts in the "winter" - it's just not that cold - THOSE GUYS ARE COLD!

Remind me again - do you still have your water to oil cooler in place? If so go ONLY with Mitsu Filters after this little test run - I don't care what any thread anywhere says - the gasket cross section is different on the Mitsu Filters - you can crush your P.O.S. Water to Oil Cooler - contaminate your oil & KILL your motor - OR - spit an Oil Filter gasket on the highway & KILL your motor when you dump all your oil on the Interstate using ANY other Oil Filter than a Mitsu if you are running that POS Water Cooler - been there - done that - got lucky & my son had his eye on the Oil Pressure gauge when it blew the gasket (I had the Water Cooler too with a non Mitsu Filter) . There are numerous threads & a "fair" VFAQ on this phenomenon - half of them bullshit - I speak the truth.

The best thing is to do is to shitcan that Water Cooler - fit up an air to oil cooler in the driver side vent behind your fog lite (I'm going with smaller fog lamps at the outer part of the big middle bumper vent) - You MAY have an Oil Filter Housing capable of that already - if so - you DON"T need a 90 Filter Housing like everybody says you do because you are in freaking TEXAS & you don't need the Low Oil Temp Oil Cooler Shutoff Valve that is present in the 90 Oil Filter Housing - You just need ports to hook up the Air to Oil Cooler - which mine had & hopefully yours has those ports - some 91's & up may not have those ports - basically they have the N/T Oil Filter Housing & the BS Water Cooler. I bought an Aftermarket Cooler, 2 fittings & special Oil proof hose - entire Mod less than $100.00

Get to work.
 
Again, my thanks for the oil cooler info. I do still have the water-oil cooler. I guess I'll call around today for the mitsu filter. I will have to look into the oil cooling mod. My old Conquest Tsi had a nice size air cooler for the oil. I bet the oil eye bolts are the same size as well. As for the water pump/ps pulleys...it took me less than 5 minutes to get them back on last night. I used a allen wrench small enough to fit in the bolt holes. I slid the ps pump on the wp then lined up the holes and stuffed the aw in the top hole to hold it in place. I then got the wp pulley and lined up the extra holes on both pulleys, pulled out the aw and gently placed the wp pulley over the ps pulley and slid the aw back in the top hole...cake! I almost couldn't beleive how easy it was. I cracked eleven knouckles getting it the first time.:D . Either way I changed the oil using the vav 20w 50 and the lifters tapped for a good 4-5 min. I dropped the car and went for a very short round-the-block drive. The first stop sign I hit....sweet silence. The idle was perfect imo. Very smooth and very quiet NO LIFTER TAP. I sat there a minute just gathering it all in. Got it back in the garage and checked for leaks...none. Checked the oil on the dip stick and it was nice pretty with out any sign of water. The only thing is the darn fuel filter is still leaking a little. Guess I'll ask mitsu for this too. Thanks for all the help.
 
As I said - the aftermarket now has that Fuel Filter too... Just get rid of that water Cooler asap - it's a freaking time bomb. What style Oil Filter Housing did you have? Unused taps or no taps? Those Allen plugs are really in there - I think they loctited them at the factory - I pulled the housing off & as soon as I heated them a little with a propane torch they popped loose.

How did it pull?
 
I have the 90 filter housing with unused taps. Unfortunately I had to use one tap for the RRE SS Oil Feed line since the stock head feed bolt hole was stripped. I also used a torch and my jack bar on the end of the allen wrench to break the allen bolt loose (with the housing still mounted on the car)

As for how the car pulled...I didnt get on it. I think the highest I went was 35mph and 3500rpm. I was thinking a break in was necessary. Maybe not.
 
Actually, how can I tell if I do have the water oil cooler? Looking at it, it looks just like the air cooler my Conquest had?
 
GREAT! Pix at http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator-index.html

It's a stupid little anodized aluminum thing that sits between your Oil Filter Housing & your Oil Filter with 2 coolant lines sticking out of it - It's no uncommon for them to be left in place even when a guy hooks up an air to oil cooler. If that's the case you can still get rid of it by using a 24MM Deep Well socket to pull the big hollow bolt - cut ALL the long threads off the bolt - then Loctite about 1/2 th threads into the Oil Filter Housing like a traditional setup on a regular motor. IMO - with that setup you can run any Oil Filter out there with no danger of spitting out an Oil Filter gasket. With a de-hosed Water Cooler you don't have to worry about contaminating your oil with anti-freeze but the cooler can still crush & STILL spit an Oil Filter gasket at the worst possible time...
 
Well I guess my car is air cooled. I dont have anything like that on or near my oil housing. That's good...one less thing to worry about. I'm itching to get on (stock) boost tonight...is it too early?
 
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