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ECMlink Hard Knock Life "1G AWD cruise knock"

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all black 4G63

Proven Member
254
43
Aug 5, 2019
Chicago, Illinois
I have been noticing knock when driving around and sometime enough to pass the 5 degree threshold that flashes the MIL at you.

Im just wondering in the log I have attached if this is something to worry about? I notice that most of the knock occurs during low RPM tip in. However, I'm not 100% sure.

I am running the stock turbo with a fully built motor. "weird I know, but the turbo and manifold are weeks out" I have a AFPR set a based pressure 38psi. Im using EVO 8 560's and have not adjusted the DA timing tables much.

Please let me know what you think
Thank you
 

Attachments

  • log.2022.06.14-01.elg
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You can use water and do the same thing. We did that way back in the 70's. It will steam clean the cylinders, just don't add so much that it stalls the motor. My mother in laws old Ford Fairlane got that treatment from me and I had the biggest black soot circle in my gravel for the longest time. It purred like a kitten after that too. Just thought I'd throw that out there, it is much harder to do on a forced induction motor.
I'll take a look at the log in a few, when I am done here at work.
 
I took a look at your log. I don't know who built your timing and fuel tables but, if it were me, I would put a Stock 2g tune into it and work from there. You are commanding too much timing at too low of a load. The 1g/2g/Evo8 stock files can be found HERE on the ECMLink site. Save your current files (any log that is current) so if you don't like what the car is doing you can copy them back to your tune. It is just what I would do and do on my DSM's. Let us know how the car likes or dislikes it.
 
I took a look at your log. I don't know who built your timing and fuel tables but, if it were me, I would put a Stock 2g tune into it and work from there. You are commanding too much timing at too low of a load. The 1g/2g/Evo8 stock files can be found HERE on the ECMLink site. Save your current files (any log that is current) so if you don't like what the car is doing you can copy them back to your tune. It is just what I would do and do on my DSM's. Let us know how the car likes or dislikes it.
Aggressive timing curve indeed. Have you checked the gap on the plugs?
 
Something sure seems wrong in your log. At the 852-856 second mark, you finally do a "WOT" pull for 4 seconds and the car only gained 283 RPM.....it surely should have picked up speed better. Have you done any tests such as a boost leak test to take care of any of those? I would suggest it. The log doesn't look like the car is boosting.
Try to get a log of Full Throttle (WOT) in 3rd gear from 3000-redline or let out when the knock sensor flickers, so we can see where, in the timing and fuel tables, the car is looking for its information. I like to see a KOEO full throttle push of the accelerator to know the TPS is calibrated correctly also. It is something I do on each log, at the beginning, to show that my TPS is set properly.
KOEO=Key on Engine off
Marty
 
Something sure seems wrong in your log. At the 852-856 second mark, you finally do a "WOT" pull for 4 seconds and the car only gained 283 RPM.....it surely should have picked up speed better. Have you done any tests such as a boost leak test to take care of any of those? I would suggest it. The log doesn't look like the car is boosting.
Try to get a log of Full Throttle (WOT) in 3rd gear from 3000-redline or let out when the knock sensor flickers, so we can see where, in the timing and fuel tables, the car is looking for its information. I like to see a KOEO full throttle push of the accelerator to know the TPS is calibrated correctly also. It is something I do on each log, at the beginning, to show that my TPS is set properly.
KOEO=Key on Engine off
Marty
Hey 90 TSI good to hear from you. I really appreciate you taking the time to look at the log. I know it is not full of useful info. however, I will have the 3rd gear pull tomorrow.
Thank you!
 
BPR6ES unless you are running high compression and a lot of boost, then the 7s' or 8's might work better. ( I run the 8's at .018" because of the boost I run, 30-40psi)
 
Aren't they suppose to "Auto Light"???? ROFL
Yes most of us do use NGK Copper plugs.
 
Thank you for the reply’s and information. I purchased the NGK 6ES and will update after I perform the boost leak and compression tests so that not to waste anyones time.
Anthony.
 
shame on me, I have boost leaks everywhere!
IAC valve, vacuum plugs and now I'm fighting the lower injector seals.. I'm using a FIC rail I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I ordered new seals for now??
Hopefully this takes care of the boost leaks and then ill move to compression testing,

I did also install the LC2 wideband.

thank you
 
Nice Update!
Get those leaks taken care of and the car will respond to you much better. It's surprising how many little (or big) leaks you can run across. Glad you did that test, very wise of you!
The LC2 will be able to give feedback as to how rich or lean the motor is running at any given time so make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks that would skew the readings (but don't break exhaust studs off in the head, be careful).
You are doing the right thing, keep us informed so we can help.
 
Nice Update!
Get those leaks taken care of and the car will respond to you much better. It's surprising how many little (or big) leaks you can run across. Glad you did that test, very wise of you!
The LC2 will be able to give feedback as to how rich or lean the motor is running at any given time so make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks that would skew the readings (but don't break exhaust studs off in the head, be careful).
You are doing the right thing, keep us informed so we can help.
Thanks, just jumping ahead here a bit and wanted some insight on what everyones doing with Open Loop max octane A/R ratios. "i ask since people have been successfully racing these cars for 30 years..
I was surprised to see the stock table with 9.3:1 @ 4000RPM and up! That is crazy, i wonder if the mitsu engineers where trying to combat knock them selves based on that aggressive spark table they calibrated!
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My set up is slightly weird and old school;
JE forged Piston Close to 9:1
Crower Rods
Race bearings "forgot the brand name"
balance shafts are eliminated
helical cut oil pump gear "all Mitsubishi parts"
HKS MLS head gasket, block is bored .020"
match port and polished head with 1mm oversized Ferrrea valves and titanium valve springs
HKS 272 EX and 264 IN
STOCK TURBO
STOCK SMIC
STOCK EXHAUST MANIFOLD AND o2 HOUSING
3" open exhaust

LOL I know...the turbo and manifold are literally in the mail but are weeks out....
Fuel lap set-up, pump to motor all juiced up with AFPR
EVO 8 injectors...LOL "ran out of moneys"

thanks.
 
well i have an update. I fixed the boost leak at the IAC motor o ring and some of the intercooler pipes, but still have a leak at the throttle body shaft seals, 'parts are on the way. I also had a boost leak at the lower injector seals, but even after replacing them and the upper seals they still leak. Im wondering if it is because of the FIC rail or EVO injectors?

Even with the two smaller leaks I took a 3rd gear pull log. The vehicle has poor acceleration and seems to be missing some power and slight knock, but better @ 100 octant fuel. maybe its the combination of small boost leaks and stock turbo and intercooler. I'm using the AEM true boost set up getting somewhere around 15-17 psi. However in the log you can see the boostest. starts to tapper off for some reason?

on the other hand I also notice that when flooring it at low RPMs to begin my pull the boost lags...it stays around 10 psi for a bit then begins to increase. I do have a major leak at the compressor housing, could this be my issue?
 

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  • log.2022.07.06-05.elg
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Well, I'm no tuner but I would say your "fat". The A/F's look too rich to me and I would lean them out under WOT. I am seeing 9.8 - 10.0 and that just seems to rich. I hope some other members look at your log and see what they say. I'd go to the sliders and pull some fuel out and see how she runs on it, and log it of course. Your idle afr's seem ok. Thats just some things I see. I will look at it some more when I get my work done :shhh:
Also, we need to log boost, not that I see anything wrong but I can only see your estimates.
 
I would smooth 0-150hz and uncheck "disable MAF compensation w/sd operation". You want adjustments to be smooth, no peaks and valleys.
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Have you made changes to your maxoct timing map? I would load stock 2g map. This and leak at compressor are why it's running bad. AFR's at WOT aren't too bad for what you're targeting, but like Marty said, you can run leaner at WOT in 11's. AFR's in cruise need a little work.

I wouldn't really worry about the .4 knock you see in the last log.
 
thank you for the feed back.

I will replace the throttle body shaft seals today and re-test,

I am running the stock EVO 8 A/R map and timing map.

I will attempt to use the 2G and see what happens.

Thank you,

p.s. is anyone familiar with FIC 1200 cc injectors? I am unable to find the Bat.Adj values for these injectors with base 37psi fuel pressure.
 
thank you for the feed back.

I will replace the throttle body shaft seals today and re-test,

I am running the stock EVO 8 A/R map and timing map.

I will attempt to use the 2G and see what happens.

Thank you,

p.s. is anyone familiar with FIC 1200 cc injectors? I am unable to find the Bat.Adj values for these injectors with base 37psi fuel pressure.
If you cant find it or no one chimes in, contact FIC.
 
See post number 6 for 1200cc Hi Z's. :thumb:
I knew I started that thread for a good reason ROFL
Also, be aware that most, if not all, are calibrated at 43.5 lbs/fuel pressure and is what a lot of us run since those values are for that rated pressure. Bump your FP up and go with those numbers listed on the 1200's FIC sheet.
 
thank you for the info. I was hesitant on increasing the fuel pressure, but it does make sense.when i actually need the 1200's I'll probably start with 39psi like the data sheet says, or just go straight to 43psi?

on the other hand, I replaced the throttle body shaft seals and now when boost testing at the the throttle body elbow I can reach 30 psi and it maintains pressure for a couple moments, so i assumes that is good. However, the compressor housing is junk and can barely build more than ten PSI with the boost leak tester at the turbo inlet. (is there and O-ring there?)

So I went for another ride and did some pulls (the log is attached) The knock is virtually gone ( I changed to the 2G Timing table, but kept the EVO A/R map as it is a little leaner then the 2G, the power is better).
However, the boost is very strange,,,,,When I floor it the boost goes to 10 PSI and stays there and barley increases. I am using the AEM X series true boost gauge and solenoid. Even If i max the duty cycle to 90% it barley build above 10psi. I mean I reached 14pis at one point, but something is seriously wrong. Maybe it my BS leaking stock turbo or the AEM true boost control?

Anyone experience something like this.

I really appreciate everyones time.
Thank you
 

Attachments

  • log.2022.07.07-01.elg
    77.8 KB · Views: 20
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