"Good Ole EVO III 16g days"... Just my thoughts

[90laserRSfwd]

So, for no particular reason, it dawned on me today, that I REALLY MISS the good ole 16g days. I remember when ARP studs, walbro pump, 750 - 950cc injectors, Link, boost gauge, wideband, ACT 2600, and a FMIC was sufficient. Not billet wheeled this, L19 that. No Turbo Tuff I beam rods, trillion compression pistons, crazy fuel choices (e based, oxygenated race fuel, methanol powered). The simpler times. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing all the new stuff venders are coming out with, it just seemed like a little bit ago (probably 5 - 10 years in actuality) everyone's mod list was a close match with the above listed. Maybe add a MAFT or AFPR.

There were cars ACTUALLY out there driving, on the street, and the track, now I see nothing. It's rare I ever see a DSM anymore. I see tons and tons of build journals, but I don't really see the cars on the street. I guess it's time has come and gone, and more and more cars are being restored then driven. Which is awesome, I just miss the "cheaper" simpler fun times. Not sure if anyone feels the same, just thought I'd throw it out there, and add a few old pic's I came across today..

 

[ThunderChild]

I wasn't into dsms ten years ago, but I can understand where you're coming from. It's the evolution of automotive enthusiasts.

Personally, I drive my talon as much as possible (sitting in it while I write this) and I still am fixing/upgrading as I go.

It's also hard for people to get these cars and drove them because the majority were treated so poorly to begin with, noone wants to deal with the headache, or when they do its too valuable to them to "just drive it".

There's a few other dsmers around me, but they are few and far between for sure.

 

[19gsx91]

Heynow! I'm rocking almost that complete mod list!! And I drive my car EVERY day. evoIII 16g on pump gas trying not to knock at 25psi! I've put over 30k miles on it since I got it 2 years ago and It's parked november-march. I'd say you just gotta drive farther north but I've only ever seen a handful of local DSMs, The "show" cars are guys that can't relate and the 18 years olds are kids I don't understand. Yes I know what you are saying. Nawwatimsayin? I never knew that was a word...

If it makes you feel any better I run an open 3" exhaust and about once a week I get asked what my car is and why it "sounds like that" (I'm that guy that leaves his car running when I go in the gas station.. Don't judge me!)

 

[Justin Lauscher]

I run a tdo5 20g that was an evo III and I drive my car every chance I get. I know of 2,2g dsms in my area and 3 1gs. Mine is the only one to get dailyd of course haha. Meth injection soon!

 

[pauleyman]

I started to park this 2gb talon when I got it in 2011. It was so flawless at 52k miles. Very similar situation with my 90 at 35k miles but at that time it wasn't rare (1992). Wasnt cheap either. I decided against parking the 2gb and ive driven it every day since. 109k on it now. No regrets. Still modding.

 

[Nate355RS]

I know exactly what you mean. It's so much fun trying to get every last pony from simple mods. And it's so much less stress beating on a cheaper setup. I have all the parts to replace my GVR4 drivetrain if anything blows. But I'd probably cry if my 1g motor took a dump.

 

[19gsx91]

Yeah I'd be pretty upset if my 92 gave up.. In hindsight I really should of parked this car under a cover somewhere on jackstands.. 1 owner 92 6/4 5 speed setup with extremely low miles and bone stock when I got it.. ah well.. I love driving it too much

 

[doubleclutch]

Maybe it is just me, but that mod list is exactly what I am going for. I must be am "old timer". I love the platform and making 900hp is cool, but at the end of the day I want to be able to drive the thing for 2 hours and not have to worry about race fuel, overheating, special radiators and fans, and the lack of reliability that comes with pushing the engine to it's limits.

You all should come back to the "slow" world so we all can actually drive somewhere.

 

[AdR]

That's pretty close to my setup (16G with 20G comp, just ARP'd everything, 3" exahust, big intercooler, 650cc injectors and an intake). Nothing fancy, just drivable pleasure. I have to say, my Talon has been very reliable. I've enjoyed driving the snot of it everywhere. Two - three hour trips one way are a non-issue even with the old oem radiator, now with the Mishimoto it's even less. Garage queens are not something I'm interested in owning.

 

[19gsx91]

Yup, I put over 400 miles a week on my car, and put 150 on it yesterday going from work to STM to home, My only complaint is one of my wheels is bent so 75 on the thruway sucks everyone I know local with a DSM is either a garage queen or is torn apart

 

[weasel1G]

I've never even driven mine . I'm rebuilding it from the ground up. I do miss driving my FWD 1GA with a 16G.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

FWD 16g cars are an animal all there own! I've seriously never seen a car blow the tires off 1st - 3rd as easily as a FWD DSM with a 16g and a decent setup. Talk about holding on for deal life..

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who remembers, and enjoyed the 16g times (or is still living the fun simple 16g life!). Maybe just for fun, I'll swap out the 42r for an EVO III 16g. Possibly even some 30psi / e85 FWD street fun. We'll see.

 

[Murdertalon]

So Where I'm at I know a couple dsm guys, I know of one other one that has a almost stock 2g that DD's his. I'm keeping mine stock for now and only plan on going to a slightly larger (maybe 16g) later and basically only the mods you posted above. I like to try and keep mine on the road I've had it for 4 years ish and its been drivable for about two of that (due to taking 6 months to replace parts when I bought it) and.. I over heated it last winter and warped the head -screwed up compression. My DSM was so beat in when I bought it.. everything Ive gotten to has been so worn its not even funny when I replaced the brakes they were metal on metal and the rears the slides were rusted in place and not releasing.

The main thing I want to keep low rpm boost engagement so I can hit some autocross, also Im going to do a full energy suspension bushing install later. The t25 comes on full boost and I shift at 5/6k never try to go above that (I know what kills 7 bolts and its redline rpm shifts) -that and pushing the clutch in to start it. so no clutch mod is a must.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I feel perhaps one of the (many) reasons, that you don't see these simple setups as much anymore, is that with the cars getting older (and having been abused for a most of there life) most of the major systems are in need of a rebuild (bushings / suspension, motor, trans, t case / rear diff, wiring issues, body work, etc.). You have to start with a good car if you intend for it to preform well.

The guys that are doing restoration work to the cars (body work, repaint, replacing bushings, wiring harness rebuilds, etc.), stop driving the cars as often because they have so much time and money into the car. Not wanting to lose a car to an idiot driver or freak accident, which would be devastating, is completely understandable. I guess it's just natural to look back on the fun times and want them to continue...

 

[Tanro]

I just got my first dsm in 7 years to daily drive. I mean I have backup cars, but I bought this car to build up as a 16g + Supporting mods daily driver.

I will be on the prowl dor a 97/98 Talon AWD. I love me a 2gb talon. That will probably be a more serious build.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I feel perhaps one of the (many) reasons, that you don't see these simple setups as much anymore, is that with the cars getting older (and having been abused for a most of there life) most of the major systems are in need of a rebuild (bushings / suspension, motor, trans, t case / rear diff, wiring issues, body work, etc.). You have to start with a good car if you intend for it to preform well.

The guys that are doing restoration work to the cars (body work, repaint, replacing bushings, wiring harness rebuilds, etc.), stop driving the cars as often because they have so much time and money into the car. Not wanting to lose a car to an idiot driver or freak accident, which would be devastating, is completely understandable. I guess it's just natural to look back on the fun times and want them to continue...

I think we see more complicated setups because the platform has been around so long and it's so easy to get used performance parts on tuners and facebook. You can go on facebook and find every part you've ever wanted for cheap except it will be used. I think people know that, and why would they keep a 16g setup when they can find a big turbo and big injectors and big everything because it's all out there for pennies. I catch myself thinking this way often. I'll decide to stick with something simple then I see some awesome turbo for sale or a nice set of 280 cams etc. There are just some many parts out there for cheap. I'm not saying it's wrong or right but just reality.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

Definitely agree with you Jayson its scary as sh!t driving around now on public roads in PA because other drivers tailgate so hard and basically drive like they want to crash and wreck their car. There is a huge difference in how drivers react to me when im on WJ Jeep vs. my DSMs...don't know if its jealousy or what but remember when you weren't in the DSM game how hard it was to acquire a turbo DSM you could afford around 2000-2005?

Folks drive way more aggressively when I'm in the DSM. They must be thinking " woooo I see racecar I'm racecar too (2015 Honda Civic) must speed past this DSM". While your in your car driving safely and all you can do is sit back and say .

And remember what it was like to be like these people before the DSM and 16g days turned you into an ASE certified mechanic? We paid for our freedom with ticking lifters, crispy ISC motors, leaking everything and hard work. I'd do it all again going back in time.

The 14b/16g/20g days were fun Revive the 16g days!!!

 

[Vegas Smith]

I do it funny that a lot of people have told to me stick with my 16g car even though they are driving around in 800hp cars etc. If you miss your 16g so much then why not downgrade? I think it's a case of the good ole days. Everything was better and more simple in the past yet we don't ever try to go back to that. Life was much more simple in the 1800s!! I don't see anyone ditching their iphone for a telegraph though. Nobody is ditching their two-story a/c home for a log cabin in the woods.

 

[19gsx91]

I think they're referring more to just a simpler setup there Vegas, You can line my car up against 500-600 horsepower cars all day long and I can still hang with them.. I can also drive to and from the track WHILE getting 25mpg. no trailer or race fuel required. The thing some people forget about high horsepower cars is all it takes is one mistake, one slip up, one bump in the road under acceleration and things goes sideways REALLY fast.

I think the people telling you to keep the 16g are just saying with that setup you can still run it hard and not kill someone or something.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I'd do it all again going back in time.

The 14b/16g/20g days were fun Revive the 16g days!!!

It's seriously tempting to just lose the 42r and go back to a 16g. It just seems like everyone's in a rush to go into the 9's (or quicker) these days, and that's fine, but I miss the white knuckle driving experience that the "hit" of the 16g gives (especially in a FWD car). Plus, honestly, I don't have $10,000 for a PPG dogbox trans setup right now. I've spent $1,000's of dollars the last couple months getting the car setup to run the 42r, and need tens of $1,000's more.

I think a lot of members stories go something like this...

Buys DSM. Starts making power. Wants to go faster. Screw it build a race car. $1,000's of dollars in and 1/2 way threw the build, I miss the 16g days I could just drive my car. Parts car out.

I see the 400whp on pump gas (and all but 500 on c16), that Curt's car made http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/499awhp-on-a-16g.292196/ (mind you this is out of reach for most as far as the realm of possibility of duplication the setup). Reading how the car went 10.3's at 135ish mpph, makes me wonder why I even bothered go for a 42r. The power band in a 16g seems awesome for a street driven car. I didn't buy my car to hide in the garage / trailer. I wanna drive it.. Anyone selling an EVO III 16g

 

[Murdertalon]

I think a lot of members stories go something like this...

Buys DSM. Starts making power. Wants to go faster. Screw it build a race car. $1,000's of dollars in and 1/2 way threw the build, I miss the 16g days I could just drive my car. Parts car out.

Life just got real real right here. Yeah this is why I haven't let my curiosity or my friends with insane ideas get ahold of my dsm goals. Street driving ability is top priority. I dont care if your jacked up 600hp cummins diesel is faster in a strait line (yes I get guys in trucks like this wanting to race me) I like to go drive mountain roads and little smooth gravel and pavement mix enjoying some g's pulling around corners while hitting the boost. thats where I have fun. I also get shit all the time because I dont want to street race your non turbo subaru wrx on the main streets though town with cops itching to bust street racers.. I cant believe some of the kids in the town I live in. good luck getting a job without a license.

I guarantee you I could put my dash cam in and laugh at 3-5 people launching against me on downtown and main roads of my town while I leave the light like a snail, then acting like they won a street race.. kids I dont even bother with your civics because I cant risk my license I'm an adult.

 

[19gsx91]

I dont want to street race your non turbo subaru wrx

WRXs are turbos. Just not horribly fast unless it's built like my cousins car, and even then, its not fast for long (bcuz subaru)

Your not alone murder, I constantly get people trying to mess with me, When I used to talk to my cousin about the civics/integras (turbo and non) I was smoking in my camaro he kept asking why I was picking on the little guy, it's not even fair, the guy in the civic had no idea there was more money under the hood then his entire car +setup cost. Since my eyes were opened I mostly laugh it off (except the VTEC THIS spark plug cover, half the honda guys get mad, half the honda guys laugh) Now I perk up if I see new 5.0 mustangs, (I walk those all day long in the GSX) idk it's about the mentality I guess. I just enjoy the thrill of it, I'm less interested in winning

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Your not alone murder, I constantly get people trying to mess with me

This is the EXACT reason I don't take my 1g out. I'm not trying to get involved in the license suspension / fines end of the spectrum. I just like to see DSM's out and about. I'm not saying I've never street raced or "engaged in a speed competition" we all know the truth when it comes to modify and testing with the "butt dyno"

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but with all the experience we all have NOW (some 10 years later), IF you guys could go back and build a 16g setup all over again (let's just say starting with a decent stock car for this example), what mods would you chose using today's available parts.. (for the love of god, please no one say MAFT).

I'll start...
ARP head studs with MLS gasket
BSE
FP manifold
EVO III 16g
Punishment or simular o2 dump
3" turbo back exhaust
Punishment FMIC kit w/ real Greddy Type S BOV
BR7ES plugs / NGK wires
Link v3 on SD / Innovate MTX-L wideband
Boost gauge
ACT streetlite flywheel / 2600 / solid 6 puck
Rewired walbro 450 pump
Fuel lab FPR kit
ID1000 injectors
Hallman Pro MBC
3" intake with filter

 

[19gsx91]

I'm running almost that exact setup, I think 950s+ would be more appropriate for me since I'm running 80% IDC on 850s when it was at 26psi.

No 6 puck, my 2600 with a street disk is aggressive now. I will be upgrading to a southbend clutch setup whenever this dies out. in the past week I've been in gridlock traffic about 4 times that moved forward 6 feet at a time, I couldn't imagine what that would of been like, an hour doing that with a 6 puck clutch.

I would not run an MLS head gasket at all, Or BSE for that matter.

Per the advice of the wisemen, I'd rather run a composite HG because IF anything that happens to spike cylinder pressure, the HG will fail, and not something much more expensive.

Other then that yeah, FIC 850s, 1g BOV, Ebay MBC and no SD for me, otherwise that's my setup.

The good news about people trying to pass me from a stop or anything like that is I can make my point in 2nd gear, Whereas the very high horsepower cars risk stomping on it and risking their license.. it wouldn't be worth it to me either