Going to see a 4G63T Motor for sale tomorrow. Tips please?

[Falcon55]

Well as some of you know, my motor has severe rod knock and a rebuild is out of the question (it will cost more than a swap). So I spoke on the phone with a guy my friend knows that sells motors and eclipses. I mentioned if there was any sludge and he said "Nah, none of that." But then again, you never know and i'll still check for it. We arranged to meet up tomorrow so I can check out the motor. If I decide to buy it, it will go to me for $700, which isn't bad.

Now any tips besides opening the valve cover to check for sludge, because that's about all I know how to do, . I would also assume to check the crankshaft for any scoring and try to turn it, but I don't know how to do that.

Anything else I need to know and how to do it? I would appreciate it because I need to know what i'm going to get myself into with this used motor.

Thanks!

 

[alansupra94]

Ask him for compression numbers. I assume this is a 1G motor you are buying.

Most people that sell engines offer some kind of warranty. I would look into that as well.

 

[Falcon55]

Nah, it's a 1996 2g 7-bolt 4G63T with a little over 100k miles on it. He said it also has a new timing belt on it and it runs fine. I know it sucks to get a motor one year earlier than your car, but who cares, as long as it doesn't have crankwalk and it runs like a champ. I'm in some desperate times and I gotta go do what is necessary. Not to mention for $700 and free local shipping to anywhere I want, you can't complain with that!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that i'm going to ask him for a warantee when I see him tomorrow, so that's out of the question too. I'm just trying to find out what else to physically look at in the engine and how to do it aswell. Any help I would appreciate!

 

[kawboy]

The 96's used a different cam sensor then yours.

I also wouldn't reccomend buying a used motor with over 100k (especially a 96 7 bolt)

Find a clean 6 bolt or get yours rebuilt

 

[DSM1G90]

100k on a motor for that price without knowing of any crankwalk issues nor can you check it out with the tests that you've seen on some of these forums, I'd flash 600 in his face and see if he takes it.

 

[juanjose]

hey not trying to jack ## post but im looking for a rear axle and u said the that guy u getting the engine from sells eclipses and engines, maybe u can help me thank u.

 

[Falcon55]

^Sorry bro, I know your local but the guy only rips out motors and sells eclipses. He doesn't pull out rear axles, but for that you can easily go to a u-pull-it junkyard down here and get a good working rear axle for dirt cheap. There's a u-pull-it right on 441 north, right past griffin road in broward. I've been there before, you should check it out.

The 96's used a different cam sensor then yours.

I also wouldn't reccomend buying a used motor with over 100k (especially a 96 7 bolt)

Find a clean 6 bolt or get yours rebuilt

What? I thought 95-99 4G63T motors were all the same, with barely noticable visual changes in the engine bay area for the 97-99 models. Different cam sensors? So that means a 1996 motor will not work on my car?

I want a clean 6 bolt so bad but they are way too expensive on ebay and none of them are local. Only closest thing I found was a 1999 motor with only 68k miles for $600, but it was sold quickly by the same guy. So that 96 7-bolt motor I described is the last engine he has left.

100k on a motor for that price without knowing of any crankwalk issues nor can you check it out with the tests that you've seen on some of these forums, I'd flash 600 in his face and see if he takes it.

Even though I told him on the phone i'm fine with $700... No lie, i'm always low balling people and I was seriously going to ask him for $600 in his face after saying the motor has over 100k miles, it's a year older than my car which isn't good and finally make a lie about how i'm currently looking into a 98 motor with less miles for around $650. Then i'll tell him 6 Benjamins is all I have for his motor and he'll have no choice but to take it, !

 

[Dsmj89]

I agree with kawboy. Think about it, who knows the condition of that motor. Just by taking off the valve cover won't reveal that much. I would just rebuild your current motor or look into a 6 bolt.

 

[Falcon55]

^I wanted a 6-bolt bad and i'm local in the same area as you. I already searched craigslist in south florida (even orlando, jacksonville, tampa, gainsville, ft. myers, daytona beach, even in pensacola), I searched ebay and I even searched google (not like crazy though) and I was shit outta luck, only a high price 1g 6-bolt motor from JDM in craigslist orlando was what I found.

I found this motor off of ebay and it's from the same guy who sold the 96 motor with 102k miles (ad may still be on craigslist).

If I can choose, I would rather get a 6-bolt motor overall. But if I had to go with a 7-bolt motor, at least a 97-99. I'm looking at it this way, at least i'm going to get my car running well then sell it and get a 2g GSX, so it doesn't matter if a 96 motor goes into it, since i'm selling my car for a GSX regardless. Right?

 

[stealthtt24]

Someone said ask him about compression numbers, I wouldnt. He could just lie about it, take a leak down tester and an air compressor or better yet see if he has one and perform the leak down test. That will tell you whats up with the motor for sure. Cheap insurance!

 

[slow4g6392tsi]

Someone said ask him about compression numbers, I wouldnt. He could just lie about it, take a leak down tester and an air compressor or better yet see if he has one and perform the leak down test. That will tell you whats up with the motor for sure. Cheap insurance!

Some leak down testers and compression test kits can be calibrated to read differently so I would stick with bringing your own.

 

[JusMX141]

What? I thought 95-99 4G63T motors were all the same, with barely noticable visual changes in the engine bay area for the 97-99 models. Different cam sensors? So that means a 1996 motor will not work on my car?

The '95-'96 Cam Angle Sensor reads from the back of the intake cam gear....yours reads from the opposite side of the intake cam, near the throttle body. You'll have to swap intake cams (the '97-'99 cams are threaded internally) and sensors in order to make this work.

Here's how the '95'-96 cam gears look:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Only closest thing I found was a 1999 motor with only 68k miles for $600, but it was sold quickly by the same guy. So that 96 7-bolt motor I described is the last engine he has left.

Damn, you missed a deal there. The '99 motors are considered the most durable 7-bolt to own, while the '95-'96 motors are supposedly the least durable....although my buddy has 139k hard, hard-driven miles on his '95 7-bolt and it's still as strong as the day it was built with 180psi across the deck.

Then i'll tell him 6 Benjamins is all I have for his motor and he'll have no choice but to take it, !

He could tell you to kiss his a$$. Better take $700 just in case if you really want to get your car running.

 

[Falcon55]

Some leak down testers and compression test kits can be calibrated to read differently so I would stick with bringing your own.

Damn, bringing my own may be out of the question unless if I get my friend's in time before I see the engine tomorrow morning (he also owns an 1998 Eclipse Spyder GST). These are great suggestions that I appreciate, I will phone in my friend tomorrow morning ASAP.

But does anybody have any physical suggestions which can be simply done with some handy tools? Such as removing a valve cover to check for sludge for example? Thanks!

 

[talondave]

sludge isnt going to show you a spun bearing.....your going to have take a chance.unless he will let you take the oil pan off.

 

[Falcon55]

^That's what I was thinking about, I can drop the oil pan and check if the crank is scored, but then when it comes to what my friend told me about trying to turn the crankshaft, I don't know how to do that. Or I don't know how to look for bearings by dropping the oil pan, i've never done it, .

The '95-'96 Cam Angle Sensor reads from the back of the intake cam gear....yours reads from the opposite side of the intake cam, near the throttle body. You'll have to swap intake cams (the '97-'99 cams are threaded internally) and sensors in order to make this work.

Here's how the '95'-96 cam gears look:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Damn, you missed a deal there. The '99 motors are considered the most durable 7-bolt to own, while the '95-'96 motors are supposedly the least durable....although my buddy has 139k hard, hard-driven miles on his '95 7-bolt and it's still as strong as the day it was built with 180psi across the deck.


He could tell you to kiss his a$$. Better take $700 just in case if you really want to get your car running.

Hold up, so if the engine comes with the whole long block and intake manifold only, then will I still be able to swap intake cams or not?

Also about the 99' engine I found, hell yea that was a deal. But then again it wasn't my fault it slipped, the day I found out about it on craigslist, I called him the next day and he told me he sold it weeks ago. I was like "then why do you still have the ad up? Wtf?" and he apologized, then said he didn't have enough time to take it down. Needless to say, I wish I found out about it alot earlier!

I'm going to take $700, but only showing him $600 and if he complains, then i'll throw in $640 or break it even at $650... Trust me, I know how to hustle someone (on ebay, he was asking for $1,000 initially, got him to give it to me for $700 and i'm still not satisfied)...

 

[JusMX141]

But does anybody have any physical suggestions which can be simply done with some handy tools? Such as removing a valve cover to check for sludge for example? Thanks!

This isn't 1967- newer oils hardly sludge at all. I can recall stories of old engine builders removing valve covers from cars and the sludge was so thick there was a perfect imprint of the valve cover still on the engine after it was removed. A lot has changed in 40 years.

Just grab the flywheel or crank pulley and try to move it in and out. If it does this, stay away:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i605.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/svar/Crankwalk_0001.flv">

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2Fp0I3bhuM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2Fp0I3bhuM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Trust me, I know how to hustle someone

By offering him $100 less? Not really....a good hustler would say "well, I can't see the engine run, and it does have over 100k on it....I'll give you $400 cash and we'll load it up right now."

 

[talondave]

take a 1/2 drive rachet and put it in the center bolt of the crank pully and turn it...........then if you can take the oil pan off check for movement on the rods...just grab the rods with your hands and try to move them around a little side to side is ok but up and down not so good.

 

[talondave]

yes that is nasty thrust play!

 

[Falcon55]

This isn't 1967- newer oils hardly sludge at all. I can recall stories of old engine builders removing valve covers from cars and the sludge was so thick there was a perfect imprint of the valve cover still on the engine after it was removed. A lot has changed in 40 years.

Just grab the flywheel or crank pulley and try to move it in and out. If it does this, stay away:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i605.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/svar/Crankwalk_0001.flv">

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2Fp0I3bhuM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2Fp0I3bhuM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



By offering him $100 less? Not really....a good hustler would say "well, I can't see the engine run, and it does have over 100k on it....I'll give you $400 cash and we'll load it up right now."

Damn, you don't know how much that really helped! If I knew how to give positive rep points, I would definitely give some but I don't know how!

Also $400? , he would laugh tho. If someone can pull that off, then it's an excellent hustle no doubt. But then again, I got him to drop it from $1,000 to $700 and now, trying to get it to $600. I'm trying to have him drop the price 40%, which isn't bad at all. Even a 30% price drop isn't bad. Now $400, I doubt anybody will drop anything more than half off nowadays unless if someone works as a negotiator for the FBI or something.

take a 1/2 drive rachet and put it in the center bolt of the crank pully and turn it...........then if you can take the oil pan off check for movement on the rods...just grab the rods with your hands and try to move them around a little side to side is ok but up and down not so good.

Damn, you don't know how easy that is to read but how hard it is to comprehend with a visual example in my head. Can anybody provide videos or pics of what you just described, because that will be an extremely great benifit to know. Then I guess i'll be all set for tomorrow morning.

 

[talondave]

just check for the things that we told you about and you should be ok. main thing make sure the motor turns over.

 

[Falcon55]

^Aiight, will do. It's just that the last thing u mentioned about the rods:

then if you can take the oil pan off check for movement on the rods...just grab the rods with your hands and try to move them around a little side to side is ok but up and down not so good.

I don't have a visual representation of this in my mind, it's kinda hard to comprehend and I might need a either a pic or video. Sorry, it's just that my knowledge is a little limited when it comes to these cars.

 

[talondave]

thats ok......got to start some where.....i just dont have any videos or or pics right now sorry...........maybe someone might.

 

[Falcon55]

^^^Hold up, I think I found what i'm looking for. Look at Justin's first photobucket video above of the Evo 4 engine with crankwalk, see it? Speed up the video to 00:55 seconds left, where it says "Crankwalk - Oil Pan removed"

See those 4 little individual bearings (if i'm correct) overlapping the crankshaft? They have 2 screws (top part of bearing and bottom part of bearing) with the bearings in between the screws, see what i'm talking about? Are those the bearings i'm supposed to look for?

Then I grab them, move them left and right (from the position of the video) which is fine. But there should be no up and down movement (forward and back from the position of the video) and if there is up/down movement, then stay clear of that engine, right?

See what i'm talking about? Try to bear with me on this one, trying to learn here, haha!

EDIT: Actually it's not only 4 individual bearings, I just noticed 5. See them? There are 4 slots of space where you can see the crankshaft slightly moving from left to right, in between the 4 slots of space, that's where the bearings are located, correct?

 

[talondave]

this might help.....ok on the two bolts on the rod that hold the rod on the crank....take each hand on each bolt and try to move it up and down it shouldnt move up and down.do this on each rod. no movement then the rods bearing should be good.

 

[Falcon55]

Sorry about my previous post above, where I mentioned 2 screws on the second paragraph, I meant 2 bolts DAMN IT!

Why did I say screws, I meant bolts! BOLTS! I'm kinda lacking right now, I think it's lack of sleep! And I have to wake up early to look at this motor, not good!

Ok but onto what you were referring to, your talking about the 2 bolts that hold the rod bearing into place beneath the crankshaft, correct? A little side to side movement is ok, correct? But no up/down movement what so ever, right?