GM-TRANSLATOR with S-afc

[92GVR4#333]

here is the list ---

Turbo FP3065
tial BOV
fmic huge
EVO III MANI
GM translator w\3 inch maf
2.5 to fmic 3.0 to TB
660 Injectors
BnM fuel pressure reg
walbro 255 fuel pump
venom fuel rail
2.4 hundai sonata g64b
eagle rods
forged pistons 9to1 comp
balence shafts removed
champhered oil passages
GVR4 oil pump
rotating assembly balenced

the short version--would I be shooting my self in the foot and over running the translator if I used my afc as well as the tuning abilities of the translator? I like the RPM adjustment and would like to keep my fuel that well tuned...as a side note any one doing propane yet?

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

an SAFC has rediculously more tuning capabilities than than the MAFT. use the MAFT to open up the intake and get rid of the stock MAF.. do all your tuning via AFC.. the tuning through the MAFT is very very basic.

 

[TalonRacer18]

Just leave the translator at all zeros, because you have already tuned with the safc, the translator will just screw you up. If you are willing to retune thoo.....Just set the translator at a good number, then fine tune it with the safc.

 

[92GVR4#333]

thanx I just wanted to confirm what I was thinking on the tuning end...

 

[DCJ98GST]

I always thought it is recomended that you tune with the MAFT as close as possible and then fine tune with the S-AFC.

The MAFT is far superior to the SAFC in determining the proper A/F ratio.

 

[TalonRacer18]

That's what i said.

 

[kpt4321]

It worries me that you have that huge mod list, yet you don't know how to utilize a MAFT/SAFC combination.

Also, you may want to consider using a 3.5 inch MAF, that is what Mike Licht from Ramchargers suggests. With 3 inch IC piping, that would work perfectly.

Either zero out the MAFT and then tune like you normally would with the SAFC, or tune with the MAFT first then the SAFC.

What the heck do you mean, "over running the translator"?

 

[TalonRacer18]

so you are saying you have a 2.4 block?

 

[92GVR4#333]

yes as far as overrunning the translator---fuel mapping problems--just wanted confirmation there would be no interference

yes I have a 2.4 hybrid---that is the short list

my questions have been answered till next time...

keep it open as long as you need just turn off the lights when you leave

 

[TalonRacer18]

How is that 2.4 block working for you? Is it any good/

 

[92GVR4#333]

better than expected....need to finish the tune and it will be a monster

 

[TalonRacer18]

Does it give you a bigger kick off the line, with that extra .4 torque?

 

[92GVR4#333]

itis about a week from completion I will update on the butt dyno

 

[TalonRacer18]

sweet!

 

[aliengotpsi]

Hey I want to start off saying I would never use this pos thing! just keep the 2g mas it works much better, We were on the dyno for 38 pass's and over 3 hours, for some reason the gm screwd up the boost and would change a/f from run to run and act up alot, so then we put a 2g mas back in and workd tons better.

MY .02

Kevin Smith
Straightline Specialties

 

[RipperXX]

um just cause you had problems dont mean everyone will, ever think you didn't wire it right or something wasn't makeing a good connection?

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by aliengotpsi
Hey I want to start off saying I would never use this pos thing! just keep the 2g mas it works much better, We were on the dyno for 38 pass's and over 3 hours, for some reason the gm screwd up the boost and would change a/f from run to run and act up alot, so then we put a 2g mas back in and workd tons better.

My response:

If you were having problems then you didn't have it installed properly, or don't what you are doing to begin with.

I have units installed on 2 DSM's and it works FLAWLESSLY on ALL of them.

1 of them is a 1g and one is a 2g.

AFR (based on in car widebands) can be held solid time after time.

Both are setup as "blow" thru.

The comment "gm screwd up the boost" tells me you don't have a clue about the MAF or DSM's in general. The MAF has NOTHING to do with the "boost". It's an air meter. It measures air FLOW and has NOTHING to do with "boost".

My "guess" on the problems, assuming it was set up in "draw thru" mode is that the installation was ####ed up. Allowing unmetered air into the engine. Things like catch cans with filters will cause this. So will leaving the valve cover breather hose hanging open.

So, in general. Don't blame a product because it wasn't installed or used properly.

Hal

 

[DCJ98GST]

Hal

Did the the translator/MAF improve performance noticably more in the 1G than the 2G?

 

[Hal]

No it didn't.

But it wasn't a "stock" 1g either. We replaced a VPC with the 3" MAF/MAFT combo. So there really wasn't an intake restriction to begin with.

The 2g saw a lower boost threshold (faster spool up) after installing the MAF/MAFT combo.

Check out the DSM Tech area of the NABR public board for more details.

Hal

 

[swordfish]

Originally posted by aliengotpsi
Hey I want to start off saying I would never use this pos thing! just keep the 2g mas it works much better, We were on the dyno for 38 pass's and over 3 hours, for some reason the gm screwd up the boost and would change a/f from run to run and act up alot, so then we put a 2g mas back in and workd tons better.

MY .02

Kevin Smith
Straightline Specialties

Did you have the right MAF? There are a ton of people that just go to a junkyard and get a MAF and really have no idea what they have. I have installed 2 now with AFC's and both of them are flawless. Here is a pointer to everyone who wants to try the MAFT. Spend the extra money and order you MAF from www.gmpartdirect.com That way you know you are getting the right part.

jeff

 

[aliengotpsi]

Hey please dont say I dont know what Im doing, cause I do! all I want to say is , its not worth the money. We ran the blow design, we also ran a s-afc, and set the horse power in a box to 0's across the board, and just tryd to tune with the s-afc, ya it seem'd fine in all untill we got on the dyno, we were on there for 3 hours and over 35 pass's. I know the maf should have nothin to do with the boost but for some reason it wouldnt stay where we wantd it to stay, when we put on the 2gmas boost was rock steady. We did get 340hp @ wheels on pump gas.

Mr. Hal yes I know alot about dsm's yes i know what a mas does, Reads amount of air that goes by. At my shop we have 8 dsms 2 of them are 12's on stock 14b's and 2 others have 60-1 turbos running 11's I guess you kinda have to know something about the car if you can make it run 11's? Im not tring to fight im just saying I dont like the gm maf with translator box, doesnt help over a 2g mas and if you think it does please post some dyno numbers.

my .02

Kevin Smith
Straightline Specialties

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by aliengotpsi
doesnt help over a 2g mas and if you think it does please post some dyno numbers.

What do dyno numbers have to do with this?

We're not talking about Supras

The 2g MAF with all h/c's installed is a good maf up until around 350/380 grams per second of air flow. Did you know that?

Above that it it starts to lose accuracy.

So, for MOST people a GM MAF in a 2g is overkill.

If myself and others can make it work, why can't you?

Hal

 

[91nbtsi]

I am the guy that had the GM MAF trans that aliengotpsi is talking about. Just want to start out by saying what he has said is all true. For some reason my boost would get crazy creep towards redline with the GM MAF. I had the 3" sensor, which I know for a fact was the correct sensor, off a 3.1 lumina. I had it in a blow through setup. I have a 60-1 turbo, cams, built engine, spearco 216 FMIC with 2.5" piping, etc.., I had the sensor mounted half way up on my upper pipe. I Had it installed correctly and all the settings correct, trust me I checked everything over like 10 times. So we get it on the dyno, and start making pulls. One run my A/F would be one way, and the very next run with no adjustments it would almost totally flip over the A/F curve. We were getting super pissed off and couldn't figure out what was going on. No matter how we adjusted my wastegate actuator and boost controller i would get horrible boost creep, but it was weird because it would all of the sudden really creep bad at about 6k rpm. After 38pulls and not being able to get a steady A/F we decided it was enough. One more note, it seem that the GM MAF was richening up as boost went up for some reason as well, another thing that had us puzzled. So the next day I throw back on my 2g MAS just to see if that would affect my boost problems, because I have a 39mm internal gate and there is no way I should get the creep I had. Well, go out and drive around, Weird!! my boost stays rock solid at 15lbs!!! Hmm, you tell me what was causing the creep My whole driveability of the car from idle to full throttle was 10 times better with the 2g MAS compared to the GM. I'm sorry but It was a pos on my car. Maybe for someone who isn't out to make alot of power and doesn't care how well their car is tuned, they GM trans. would be great but what is the point of getting this because that is exactly what it is talked up to do. I witnessed on my own car how it doesn't work up to par for me. If you are a person who actually needs to reduce your intake restrictions because you are over-running a 2g MAS, I suggest you don't waste your time and go right to a standalone.

Any questions, feel free to ask. Sorry for the long post. Nate

 

[Hal]

I can tell you EXACTLY why you were getting boost creep.

When you get a lot of timing retard, combined with a excessively rich fuel mixture you wind up with fuel actually burning in the exhaust manifold.

Much like an anti-lag system.

Too bad your "tuner" couldn't figure that out.

As far as the MAF/MAFT goes, it sounds like a bad install or setup.

Was the white wire hooked up, and if so to what?

Was the purple wire hooked up, and if so to what?

What was the settings on ALL of the dials (including AUX) as well as the dip switches?

What OTHER things (like an AFC) were hooked up at the time, and what were those settings?

Was the MAF hacked (h/c removed and/or ported)?

The symptoms you describe are indicative of a boost leak AFTER the MAF (split coupling comes to mind), or the MAFT was setup for "contoured fuel enrichment).

The MAF/MAFT works great for me, and I'm pretty sure I make more power than you do, even at over a mile above sea level (122 mph traps in a 3460lb car).

I don't suppose you guys even bothered to ask Ram Chargers for help either did you?

You guys had a problem, couldn't figure it out, so the product is "junk" even though a large number of people are using it with a great deal of success.

Oh well, I guess it must be junk then since your "tuner" is such an expert.

Hal

 

[swordfish]

Just installed another one for a local today. Went out and beat on it for a while and everything is great. This is a MAFT/DSMlink setup. So I'm 3 and 0.

jeff