Garret GT equivalent to the 50 trim?

[BryanK]

Hey, I've been reading all the posts on how great the 50 trim does on pump gas, and I'm just wondering if garret came out with an equivalent compressor blade in the GT series. The GT's are apparently more efficient or whatnot, so I thought it would be interesting to see if they could top the 50 trim. I've also heard somewhere that the GT's are meant more for higher boost applications, so they might not have even bothered trying. I dunno... I'm pretty ignorant on the matter, so feel free to pipe in with any info.
BryanK

 

[DCJ98GST]

Well I can help you with half of your question. The Garrett GT-30 CHRA part No. 700177-0011 has a compressor map that is very similar to the 50 trim. It actually flows a little more than the 50 trim 50 lbs/min compared to 48 lbs/min. It is just as efficient. I have seen the compressor maps for both. You can see the trims and sizes of the wheels here:


http://www.turbofast.com.au/GTseries.html

Slowboy does make a hybrid using this wheel, he calls it the GT-11 (not on the site). I think it is $1350.

Also AGP will build it with the SPF manifold, wg, dump tube, o2 housing, and full garrett turbo setup for $2100.

As for the other part of your question about the GT series only good for high boost. I have heard the same thing, but dont know if it is true.

It does seem like alot of people are selling their L2R and buying the old standard T3/T4's ?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
It does seem like alot of people are selling their L2R and buying the old standard T3/T4's ?

Because MOST people care more about pump gas performance than high boost/c16 performance. For some reason the DSM community has not had success with the GT 30 wheel on pump gas. As for ditching bolt on to move to a t3/t4. Exhaust flow is a good thing. Can you make tons of power on a 7cm housing? Of course it has been proven time and again. But its EASIER to do it going Garrett.

 

[DCJ98GST]

So you think that maybe the reason people have not had good pump gas results with the GT-30 is because the the turbo's used are usually a bolt on hybrid with the 7 cm turbine housing? Maybe. But the Green is a really good pump gas turbo and it uses the 7 cm housing.

Also isnt the 7 cm mitsu housing the same as the garrett .48 A/R or is the garrett superior?

You would think that the L2R would be a better pump turbo then the 50 trim just due to the much larger compressor size and more efficiency.

 

[ChicagoGSX]

IMO full Garrett is still the best way to go.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
So you think that maybe the reason people have not had good pump gas results with the GT-30 is because the the turbo's used are usually a bolt on hybrid with the 7 cm turbine housing?

That could be part of the problem. But as I have said you can make tons of power in a Mitsu housing. I just don’t think the GT30 wheel was designed with pump gas in mind.

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
Maybe. But the Green is a really good pump gas turbo and it uses the 7 cm housing.

I think the Green just has one of those magic maps that just works great on a 2L DSM at pump gas boost levels.

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
Also isnt the 7 cm mitsu housing the same as the garrett .48 A/R or is the garrett superior?

Off the top of my head I’m not positive. That sounds just about right. I do know that both the 7cm and 8cm housings are much smaller than a .63ar exhaust housing.

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
You would think that the L2R would be a better pump turbo then the 50 trim just due to the much larger compressor size and more efficiency.

I am by no means a turbo expert but from what I have seen the manufactures tend to fudge maps for some reason or another. Take a look at the map for a 60-1 you would think it the worst turbo ever but it has done so well on DSMs its above reproach. I don’t want to say too much about the L2Rs or I will end up arguing with GSX4Life all night on AIM. All I know is why argue with success? PTE sells bolt on 50 trims for 995 with an internal gate. How can you beat that?

 

[bigfoot]

I agree full Garrett rules. But I dont want to buy a manifold if it isn't an improvement over ported 2G. All the well built equal length ones cost over $1,000. What ever happened to the HKS recast in SS? And I hear AGP is offering the L2R with a 8cm housing, gains 30-40 hp.

 

[BryanK]

The Garrett GT-30 CHRA part No. 700177-0011 has a compressor map that is very similar to the 50 trim. It actually flows a little more than the 50 trim 50 lbs/min compared to 48 lbs/min. It is just as efficient. I have seen the compressor maps for both. You can see the trims and sizes of the wheels here:

So if this is true, why don't we see more people out there testing them? It sounds logical to me... if garrett has taken a great compressor blade and made it better (flow more) than I would think people would be jumping all over these.
BryanK

 

[GreenEagle]

Yes, the compressor side of the 700177-0011 is very similar to the 50 trim, (even slightly more efficient). However, I believe the turbine side is smaller than the stage 3 exhaust wheel used in most 50 trim T3/T4 hybrids. Keep in mind this will affect the overall power-making characteristics of the turbo. The only way to know if it's as good on pump gas would be a back to back dyno test, which I doubt anyone has done.

 

[Z1500]

You guys all make me laugh. Where are you getting this data on the 700177-11 being = to the 50t? It's completely inaccurate.

Kevin

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by Z1500
You guys all make me laugh. Where are you getting this data on the 700177-11 being = to the 50t? It's completely inaccurate.

Kevin

UH, I have both compressor maps in front of me.

 

[Kingdom]

Originally posted by Z1500
You guys all make me laugh. Where are you getting this data on the 700177-11 being = to the 50t? It's completely inaccurate.

Kevin

I havent looked at any compressor maps, but you can probably answer this question for us. What is the closest wheel to the 50trim from the GT series?

 

[Z1500]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST


UH, I have both compressor maps in front of me.

UH, I think you have the wrong map. Can you email it to me? I can reverse look it up by the test number.

Kevin

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by Z1500


UH, I think you have the wrong map. Can you email it to me? I can reverse look it up by the test number.

Kevin

I sent you the 10, 11, and 12 maps to your [email protected] address. Let us know whats up. Hopefully you can clear this up.

 

[MaineDSM]

What the hell happened here? I'm quite curious.

 

[motofool]

hrmm..

 

[DCJ98GST]

I sent him the maps and he said that the map I had was not for a ball bearing turbo? But was not very clear about it. He then said that he had the turbo for the map that I sent, and it isn't the GT-30, 700177-0011? So I dont know. I never wrote back for a clarification. I think it is the right map because it said 700177-0011 at the bottom of the map.

This is from memory because I have the maps at work and the emails are old.

 

[bigfoot]

I understand why people like the GT maps, I've got them, and they look great. But until I see real world results from someone running pump gas I'm not biting. Besides you really can't beat a 50 trim. Having said that, I'd like to see a GT-13 dyno on pump as an alternative to the 60 trim.

 

[Z1500]

The map in question is apparently being given out by some other turbo shop and is being represented as the map for the 700177-11. It is in fact the map for a non ballbearing GT37 w/ 6 bladed 52trim. Totally different compressor wheel, not even close. This is one of the new threaded bore GT turbos you can see the specs and even this same map in the new Garrett catalog here.

We of course have this 52trim GT37 for testing

There's a lot of BS and bad info out there, be careful who you listen to.

Kevin

 

[jdmawd]

kevin could a 50 trim be built with a ball bearing center?

 

[DCJ98GST]

Alright,

Now that I am at work I can look at the maps, and Z1500 you are RIGHT! On the bottom of the map it says GT3776/T04 52 **0.70 GT37 TO4 and it looks like the phantom chart listed on the garrett pdf file at the GT37 location.

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by bigfoot
I'd like to see a GT-13 dyno on pump as an alternative to the 60 trim.

That been done many times. The -13 uses the 60-1 compressor wheel.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by Z1500


We of course have this 52trim GT37 for testing

Kevin

I guess this is what your site is refering to as; "stay tuned for the series of GT technology"?

 

[Sleepr DSM]

I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm completely wrong here.. but anyway;

The GT-13 to my experience refers to the Garret Center cartridge CHRA part number 700177-0013. Did you catch the 13 on the end?

On this site:
http://www.turbofast.com.au/GTseries.html as well as two others listing Garret part numbers the Gt-13 is listed as having a 60 trim wheel. Coincidentally, the SBR-GT13 is a 60 trim wheel, not a 60-1.

GT30
n/a
700177-0013
n/a
Trim: 60
TO4S
2.32/3.22
HP rated: 550
Compressor flow: 60
n/a
Turbine trim: 84
2.16/2.36

 

[Ben K]

Some certain websites have the exducer size of the -13 listed incorrectly. Trust me on this, the exducer is 3.00. It is a 60-1 wheel.

Do the calculation, the 60-1 is a 60 trim also

Inducer - 2.32
Exducer - 3.00

Inducer squared / Exducer squared
5.3824/9 = .598044 = .60 = 60 trim

As well as the 60 trim T04E

Inducer - 2.29
Exduver - 2.95

Inducer squared / Exducer squared
5.2441/8.7025 = .602597 = .60 = 60 trim

These two wheels are in different families. The 60-1 is in the T04S family of turbos along with the 63 trim T04R <-(yummy). The 60 trim is in the T04E family.

Do the calculation of the incorrect wheel sizes for the -13
2.32, 3.22
Trim comes out to be approximately a 52, totally wrong.