fwd street turbo?

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

the 56 trim is an excellent turbo... i don't see what you all have against it... you do need some more support for it than you would a 50 trim though (like you'll want to raise your rev limiter).

properly set up that 56 trim will walk the shit out of any of you 50 trim guys..

as for the springs, you can get them if you want, the only advantage aftermarket springs have on our engines is weight really, stock head is good to 8000-8500 RPM or so. honestly running a 16g you should never see high enough RPM that the better springs will matter.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
the 56 trim is an excellent turbo... i don't see what you all have against it... you do need some more support for it than you would a 50 trim though (like you'll want to raise your rev limiter).

properly set up that 56 trim will walk the shit out of any of you 50 trim guys..

Of course it will properly setup, its bigger and flows more.

Its a great turbo, but not for the STREET. Stroker motors or drag cars can benefit from the RS60/65, but a 2-liter 4 cylinder is going to have a hell of a time spooling a turbo that larger anywhere below 4000rpm's. The only benefit a larger turbo will have is on race gas, the 50 trim is going to walk all over the larger turbos at street boost and street gas. Streeeeeeeeeeet.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by Groomz
Of course it will properly setup, its bigger and flows more.

Its a great turbo, but not for the STREET. Stroker motors or drag cars can benefit from the RS60/65, but a 2-liter 4 cylinder is going to have a hell of a time spooling a turbo that larger anywhere below 4000rpm's. The only benefit a larger turbo will have is on race gas, the 50 trim is going to walk all over the larger turbos at street boost and street gas. Streeeeeeeeeeet.

complete bullshit.

the bigger turbo is going to be able to make more power than the smaller one, even on pump gas, maybe the difference won't be as big, but it'll be there. the powerband is different as well. as you mentioned, the SC61 isn't going to spool till 4000 RPM or so.. if you can't handle that find a different car to go fast in. it's not that bad. if you had any real experience with it you'd know this. the powerband of the SC61 is superior to the 50 trim's for drag racing. when was the last time you went below 4200 RPM on the drag strip?

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
complete bullshit.

the bigger turbo is going to be able to make more power than the smaller one, even on pump gas, maybe the difference won't be as big, but it'll be there. the powerband is different as well. as you mentioned, the SC61 isn't going to spool till 4000 RPM or so.. if you can't handle that find a different car to go fast in. it's not that bad. if you had any real experience with it you'd know this. the powerband of the SC61 is superior to the 50 trim's for drag racing. when was the last time you went below 4200 RPM on the drag strip?

Maybe you missed the fact I said the word street in bold letters. Here it is again just in case:

STREET

This term ( street ) is generally referred to for "street" cars, or vehicles driven on public roads ( ie streets ). A smaller turbo ( ie RS49 ) is ( IS ) better suited for a street ( STREET ) car. Get it?

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by Groomz
Maybe you missed the fact I said the word street in bold letters. Here it is again just in case:

STREET

This term ( street ) is generally referred to for "street" cars, or vehicles driven on public roads ( ie streets ). A smaller turbo ( ie RS49 ) is ( IS ) better suited for a street ( STREET ) car. Get it?

no i don't get it. plenty of people drive around with a big turbo. if you're building a FAST car you should have another form of transportation anyways. race cars aren't daily drivers, unless you're a rich bastard.

the SC61 is a superior choice for a FWD car because it has a more appropriate powerband that works better with the FWD system (easier traction). HOWEVER i would not reccomend that turbo without it's supporting mods, which are a little more than the 50 trim.

no, you probably wouldn't want to daily drive an SC61 powered car, although i know several people that do. but racing isn't about getting groceries or making beer runs, or the daily commute as comfortable as possible. racing is about GOING FAST.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
no i don't get it. plenty of people drive around with a big turbo. if you're building a FAST car you should have another form of transportation anyways. race cars aren't daily drivers, unless you're a rich bastard.

the SC61 is a superior choice for a FWD car because it has a more appropriate powerband that works better with the FWD system (easier traction). HOWEVER i would not reccomend that turbo without it's supporting mods, which are a little more than the 50 trim.

no, you probably wouldn't want to daily drive an SC61 powered car, although i know several people that do. but racing isn't about getting groceries or making beer runs, or the daily commute as comfortable as possible. racing is about GOING FAST.

Again, you keep coming back to drag racing and race cars ( neither of which I mentioned ). My recommendation is for a street driven car with a good spool time and good top end power. Feel free to keep telling us that a bigger turbo is going to make more power. You have an intuitive grasp of the obvious.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by Groomz
Again, you keep coming back to drag racing and race cars ( neither of which I mentioned ). My recommendation is for a street driven car with a good spool time and good top end power. Feel free to keep telling us that a bigger turbo is going to make more power. You have an intuitive grasp of the obvious.

maybe an intuitive grasp of the obvious is something you need to learn?

spool != everything

the SC61 WILL BE MORE "STREETABLE" due to LESS wheelspin cause by a slightly slower spool.

care to try again?

 

[bigjangin]

the rs49(good ol' 50 trim) will be more streetable than an sc61. When I hear someone say a street car, I think a car that is daily driven and behaves like a normal car. Yes the bigger turbo will be better than the 50 trim at the track. A well tuned 50 trim should be more than enough for anyone just looking for a FAST car. If you are trying to be the fastest and break into the 10's or 9's or something, then by all means get a huge turbo that wont spool to 4500+

but racing isn't about getting groceries or making beer runs, or the daily commute as comfortable as possible. racing is about GOING FAST.

A street car isnt about ONLY racing, its about getting groceries or making beer runs AND racing. Its great to be on your way to the grocery store and smoke a camaro. Whats not great is having a full blown drag car so you drive a geo metro around as a daily driver. Where's the fun in that.

 

[BrnOutKing]

My car is my DD I take it to the Grocery Store every week. I drive 20 miles each way in Rush hour traffic 5 days a week for work.

Doing it for the last 4 years. All I have to say about Large Turbo's not being good for Street cars? (complete Crap!!)

I've had my S20G on my car since the 6th day of owning it. My car Starts to spool at around 3800rpms and doesn't hit full spool till 4200rpms.

I've had it on my original 96 FWD GS-T and now on my 95 GSX. And my personal experience is I should have gone straight 60-1 from the get go. (well not unless you've been to some sort of driver training class's like SCCA to learn how to drive first before you try to go fast)

In traffic you're rarely on boost so turbo doesn't matter. Driving to and from the grocery store. isn't an issue cause either your in traffic or the lanes are somewhat open? (so eitherway your either off boost or on boost)

I know with a 56 trim on the street Full spool up on my friends 1G is around 4600rpms. (that's only 400 rpms more then my S20G) which is maybe like 1/4 sec slower spull up then my S20G. Which is insignificant and something you won't care about, as once on boost you'll be pulling like a bat out of hell. If you have a properly set up car.

Anycase. It's not as bad as people think. I also drive a basically Stock 1G AWD. And hands down I'd drive my 95 to work in rush hour over the 1G anytime. I like having the power to be able to pass if I want to, as well as helps for the on/off of the highways. Personally I feel safer in my 2G.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by BrnOutKing
My car is my DD I take it to the Grocery Store every week. I drive 20 miles each way in Rush hour traffic 5 days a week for work.

Doing it for the last 4 years. All I have to say about Large Turbo's not being good for Street cars? (complete Crap!!)

I've had my S20G on my car since the 6th day of owning it. My car Starts to spool at around 3800rpms and doesn't hit full spool till 4200rpms.

I've had it on my original 96 FWD GS-T and now on my 95 GSX. And my personal experience is I should have gone straight 60-1 from the get go. (well not unless you've been to some sort of driver training class's like SCCA to learn how to drive first before you try to go fast)

In traffic you're rarely on boost so turbo doesn't matter. Driving to and from the grocery store. isn't an issue cause either your in traffic or the lanes are somewhat open? (so eitherway your either off boost or on boost)

I know with a 56 trim on the street Full spool up on my friends 1G is around 4600rpms. (that's only 400 rpms more then my S20G) which is maybe like 1/4 sec slower spull up then my S20G. Which is insignificant and something you won't care about, as once on boost you'll be pulling like a bat out of hell. If you have a properly set up car.

Anycase. It's not as bad as people think. I also drive a basically Stock 1G AWD. And hands down I'd drive my 95 to work in rush hour over the 1G anytime. I like having the power to be able to pass if I want to, as well as helps for the on/off of the highways. Personally I feel safer in my 2G.

well said, although it will spool a bit quicker than 4600... the real problem here is people trying to give advice on things they have no experience with..

the answer to the arguement is this..

is the 50 trim enough for the guy? no doubt really
is it the BEST choice? that can be argued, really depends on what he really truly wants out of the car
is the 56 trim "too big" for the guy? would it be a "bad choice"? no, it is not "too big", if the man wants it there is perfectly good evidence to support it as a just as good, most likely BETTER choice for his application

 

[sidoze]

Originally posted by Groomz
Good turbo also. It has made 350whp and 376 lbs-ft of torque at 22psi. If you have a 2G, I would recommend this turbo, but only for AWD. FWD would be traction limited with its fast spool characteristics. A larger turbo ( RS43 or RS49 ) would be better for FWD with a slower spool and more top end.

350?

How big of a shot of nitrous did that take?

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by sidoze
350?

How big of a shot of nitrous did that take?

2 of the big ones, overnight from japan!

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
complete bullshit.

the bigger turbo is going to be able to make more power than the smaller one, even on pump gas, maybe the difference won't be as big, but it'll be there. the powerband is different as well. as you mentioned, the SC61 isn't going to spool till 4000 RPM or so.. if you can't handle that find a different car to go fast in. it's not that bad. if you had any real experience with it you'd know this. the powerband of the SC61 is superior to the 50 trim's for drag racing. when was the last time you went below 4200 RPM on the drag strip?

Isn't that guy over at talk with a PTE 56 trim a NOVA guy(nukefizzle) or something? Maybe you can set something up. I would like to run a 56 on pump gas if you can make that happen.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by sidoze
350?

How big of a shot of nitrous did that take?

http://www.wincom.net/trog/wastegate_actuator.html

Don't cry too much.

 

[Groomz]

For those of you too lazy to click the link.

 

[BrnOutKing]

I thought of something else that is a pro for going with a larger turbo.


Gas milage/consumption. with a larger turbo since the spool up is higher you won't be "on boost" as often as if you had a smaller turbo.

Which will save on Gas as well. All that stop and go in rush hour, stop light to stop light on the way to the grocery store, bla, bla ,bla. You won't be on boost as much consumption will be lower, you'll save money.


Just more food for thought. Yes for the average person a 50trim is large enough. But since the 56 is the same price why not go with that?

MY friends 56 trim is his only car and he drive's it every day as his DD and as of yet has no complaints. And it's here in MN were we have like 3 feet of snow on the ground. And he hasn't had any problems yet driving it in snowy weather either.

-brian

 

[jdmawd]

Just more food for thought. Yes for the average person a 50trim is large enough. But since the 56 is the same price why not go with that?

Because its huge,and it spools slow. The throttle response is like a wet sponge. You need lots and lots of supporting mods to achieve its full potential. To each his own I guess. Id never put a huge laggey turbo on my street car but that's me.

 

[VRMAN]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy


the SC61 WILL BE MORE "STREETABLE" due to LESS wheelspin cause by a slightly slower spool.

care to try again?

Flawed thinking and skewing of the definition of streetable. Just because the 50trim spools quicker doesn't mean he'll be breaking out of traction everytime to turbo spools. Driving a car with a huge 56trim and the thing going from no pull to bat out of hell is NOT fun NOR streetable when going to get groceries and running erands.




Burnout king: In case you didn't know, a Super 20G isn't considered all that big in the DSM turbo realm. So your story doesn't even count. You just have a slower spool average size turbo.

 

[sidoze]

ok im gonna be a bi*** for a second, but thats because i love you guys

i have a 50 trim at 20psi, stock cams. 1st does not spin unless i drop it at a stupid rpm like an idiot. 2nd skips traction but if you let the throttle out even a touch its smooth as silk. if you shift into 3rd really hard like you want the tranny to die it will spin too.

but the thing is the same goes for the 56 trim, jsigone has one and its the same way. if you cant drive and your dumb about it your not going to have traction no matter how big or small the turbo is.

the 50trim is a little big for most people i'd say from just driving the damn thing everyday, 16gs are a lot of fun, can easily run on stock injectors and an afc..have a great time with the car without much hassle.

tuning the 50 trim to where i have it now was tough, and it was mostly done for me by guys who already have had the same setup and blown there motors learning the ropes.

if your asking a forum of people you dont know what turbo to buy then you should probably go safe and get a clipped 16g or a 20g, most people dont have the psycho in them to want to run a 50 trim all day long.

groomz: I see they did it on a dyno jet....an INERTIA dyno. I make 350+ on those too! Isnt that great?! On a loaded dyno I make 280, at 14-16 psi on the loaded dyno I make 213 hp...on an inertia I make 280. The 350 is for when im at 20-21 psi.

Kinda understand what Im getting at? Sure it can spin a big roller to 350hp but is it actually doing that on the freeway? Im not so sure. Running 16g cars that have "the same" power I win? Anyway another thing I noticed....

thats freaking marco tuning it, if he tuned my car I bet Id put down 400+ on that dyno =/ Damn fishstick...

just because dre made 503 doesnt mean you should tell someone to get a 50trim because they say they want 500hp...I think it'd take me a garret 60-1 with a stage5 wheel and NAWZ to do the same thing dre does on pumpgas with a small turbo.

blah Im just pissy, dont listen to me...have a nice day everyone

 

[Groomz]

Dynojet Research of Belgrade, Montana invented the "inertia" dynamometer in 1989 to test motorcycles. In 1994, it introduced the first inertia dyno for cars and light trucks, the model 248C. An inertia dyno differs from a brake dyno in several ways: 1) it has no active power absorption device 2) it’s more accurate , 3) it’s less expensive, 4) it’s easier on the vehicles being tested and 5) it’s easier to use. Some of the technology that made an inertia dyno feasible was the personal computer’s ability to make rapid computations

Dynojet says that the inertia type wheel dynometer is more accurate than a loaded or brake type dynometer.

 

[IAMCLP1]

Ok guys I am really haven mixed feelings… I have the quaife lsd with the nice 2600, and my dsm-link will be in the mail next week to me, and all the “good” supporting mods.

Right now I am thinking about the 50 or 60 trim with a .82 a/r… anyone with personal experience give me there thoughts? I need lag for more traction but still want to be able to have fun… I want to try and do things right the 1st time…
My goals are only high to mid 12’s, but keep in mind this is my daily driver and it has to be reliable.

I was going to go with the Evo II 16G but that is out of the question now, and I think I have also put the 20g out of the question.

Corey
“In hunt for the “perfect” fwd turbo”

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by IAMCLP1

“In hunt for the “perfect” fwd turbo”

http://www.agpturbo.com/

Best deal out there. Top line quality also.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

fwd

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

corey you have seen my agp garret kit you should know its the best out there.