fwd limit

[xxrealmsxx]

I 've been watching the srt-4 ever since it came out because for some reason i equate it, if not put it above my gst. My question is what do you guys think is the hp limit for a fwd car? with my gst if i ever get my liscense back and have the damn car running good i was going to be happy with a 400hp mark as long as it's reliable, at least thats what i keep telling myself. I saw zac83's post of a dyno sheet and the question just hit me, so hell what do you guys think if anything at all? I think, or feel rather that more than 500hp is just too much fwd but then again i've never driven a car with that much power to the front wheels.

 

[Herbal Essences]

Yeah, all that power is more or less wasted on a drag racing fwd DSM, well for the most part atleast.

 

[fireredGST]

Originally posted by Herbal Essences
Yeah, all that power is more or less wasted on a drag racing fwd DSM, well for the most part atleast.

Thats why theres a FWD DSM in the 9s right ? :thumbdown

 

[TurboDropTop]

yea theres 1 FWD DSM in the 9's. with the HP to run 8's if it was AWD. That 500HP SRT-4 will prolly run high 12's if that (he mentioned only 1500 invested, obviously none of that in suspension or slicks) if it was a AWD DSM it would be able to run prolly 11's on stock suspension and tires. who cares tho. to each thier own.

 

[fireredGST]

Why does everyone make such a big deal out of AWD ? After 1st gear AWD is just drivetrain loss. While the AWD might be quicker in the 1/4, on the freeway AWD is going to get walked by a FWD. Whats so bad about FWD theres so many Honda FWDs civics in the 10s. Whats so bad about FWD ? the challenge that you have to know how to actually drive ? AWD is just dump and go, no skill is required for that shit.

 

[Defiant]

What's the SRT-4 weigh? FWD loses less the lighter the car is- look at what the original Mini-Coopers were doing in the early sixties. But as weight goes up, FWD has less and less sports utility. By the time you get up to an El Dorado.... well.

 

[VexRacing]

Hey go as much horsepower as youd like. Yes all wheel drive is awesome but front wheel drive is still fully functional to be fast. A lot of the full out drag cars ie (hondas and such) are running front wheel drive. Theres no reason to fight over which is better because if its a dsm its bad a$$. As well as anyone that enjoys there car and has fun with it.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

fireredGST Why does everyone make such a big deal out of AWD ? After 1st gear AWD is just drivetrain loss. While the AWD might be quicker in the 1/4, on the freeway AWD is going to get walked by a FWD. Whats so bad about FWD theres so many Honda FWDs civics in the 10s. Whats so bad about FWD ? the challenge that you have to know how to actually drive ? AWD is just dump and go, no skill is required for that shit.

If it's just drivetrain loss after 1st gear than how come some high power fwd dsm's spin in 3rd and 4th gear (smithey)? Obviosly the awd is helping after the launch in keeping wheelspin to a minimum. All those fast fwd's have to overcome a lot more obstacles in getting there power to the ground. A ton of money has to be put in to stiffen the suspension up to reduce weight transfer, put massive slicks up front, and in the case of that 9 second dsm a wheelie bar. FWD may be better from a roll but when you start making some serious power you're going to be spinning from a highway roll too. If "the challenge" is what you're looking for then have fun. Just because you have to try and control wheelspin does not mean that you are a better driver nor is it that easy to race an awd car. They get some wheelspin too just not nearly as much. Try controlling a 4-wheel spin.

That 500HP SRT-4 will prolly run high 12's if that (he mentioned only 1500 invested, obviously none of that in suspension or slicks)

I believe the guy said that people were in the 12's with 1500 invested, not him. He has obviously spent more than that. It looks like he is just trying to find the limits of the stock motor right now. I'm sure he'll spend the money on slicks and suspension when the time comes.

 

[zac83]

Theres a very simple way to answer the how much is too much question.

It's all about traction control. they make 1000 horsepower FWD cars go down the track without any wheelspin.

We'll simply figure out how much boost/timing to run in first gear so we can launch hardest and not spin, then we'll figure out how much 2nd can handle, then 3rd, then we'll be running full out in the rest of the gears. The management that we're getting should handle all of these problems for us. The car will still be able to make 600-700 horsepower down the track without traction problems.

Once we get the engine maxed out, then we'll bring the rest of the car up to par

 

[96TSi_Chris]

Originally posted by fireredGST
Why does everyone make such a big deal out of AWD ? After 1st gear AWD is just drivetrain loss. While the AWD might be quicker in the 1/4, on the freeway AWD is going to get walked by a FWD. Whats so bad about FWD theres so many Honda FWDs civics in the 10s. Whats so bad about FWD ? the challenge that you have to know how to actually drive ? AWD is just dump and go, no skill is required for that shit.

Nothing is particularly "bad" about FWD. But the fact of the matter is he mentioned reliability. I dont know about everyone else, but it snows here. Try getting a FWD w/ 400 hp up a snow hill, hell my puny 300 hp FWD wont make it up that hill. Plus youve got to factor money into the equation. Sure you can outrun a AWD in the 1/4, but how much more money have you put up? And its not dump and go, if that were the case, everyone would be running 13s. You actually have to pin point a decent launch point in a AWD as well. Its just not AS difficult as a FWD.

 

[fireredGST]

Originally posted by 96TSi_Chris
Nothing is particularly "bad" about FWD. But the fact of the matter is he mentioned reliability. I dont know about everyone else, but it snows here. Try getting a FWD w/ 400 hp up a snow hill, hell my puny 300 hp FWD wont make it up that hill. Plus youve got to factor money into the equation. Sure you can outrun a AWD in the 1/4, but how much more money have you put up? And its not dump and go, if that were the case, everyone would be running 13s. You actually have to pin point a decent launch point in a AWD as well. Its just not AS difficult as a FWD.

Wont LSD and some DRs help the traction problem ?

 

[Eclipsed]

After driving both I like AWD. My Spyder would spin on a cold night going about 55 mph. Plus is auto. I just like the AWD for convience. But think of it this way. Where do most of the races you race happen? From a roll. Id say about 5 out of 30 races have actually been from a stop that I've been in. So FWD would help me more there. But still AWD is better in my opinion. With that power some of us are making AWD helps well beyond first gear.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by fireredGST
Why does everyone make such a big deal out of AWD ? After 1st gear AWD is just drivetrain loss. While the AWD might be quicker in the 1/4, on the freeway AWD is going to get walked by a FWD. Whats so bad about FWD theres so many Honda FWDs civics in the 10s. Whats so bad about FWD ? the challenge that you have to know how to actually drive ? AWD is just dump and go, no skill is required for that shit.

If you ever get a car that makes real power you will realize how stupid your post is.

After 1st gear :thumbdown

 

[96TSi_Chris]

Originally posted by fireredGST
Wont LSD and some DRs help the traction problem ?

Sure it will help, but its not gonna cure all your problems. And i said snow, try taking radials in the snow and let me know so i can be there to laugh at you.

The point is, an AWD will go faster, cheaper. You can make FWD fast, but i hope you have a good job and a understanding g/f.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by fireredGST
Wont LSD and some DRs help the traction problem ?

It will "help" a 300hp or less fwd car quite a bit but if you are making 500hp or more you will spin slicks all the way down the track.

 

[TSi999]

Originally posted by 96TSi_Chris
Sure it will help, but its not gonna cure all your problems. And i said snow, try taking radials in the snow and let me know so i can be there to laugh at you.

The point is, an AWD will go faster, cheaper. You can make FWD fast, but i hope you have a good job and a understanding g/f.

How will it be cheaper Chris?? A 2nd gen B Eclipse GS-T usually goes for around 7-9K from what ive seen where the GS-X models are bringing in around 4-5,000 more dollars!!

 

[MyRidzPhucked]

Thats because everyone wants a turbo awd car after they maxed out their fwd car. My car is stock and the traction control sucks ass. Torque steer has gotten me in trouble a couple of times, at least not killed.

It also depends on what you own, who you see on the road, what you think your girl would like better. There's too many factors to bring in the equation. If you can AFFORD the awd in the first place then obviously there is less to worry about. That extra drivetrain, especially when its 13 years old or more, wont be as reliable... then you got even more problems. Thats why I'm stuck with 2 spinning wheels, i dont need more shit.

And anything can be made perfect, just gotta put time into it. I can personally invision a fwd getting perfect traction if you can adjust fuel, air and boost in every single gear. Shouldnt be hard at all if its all electronical.

 

[96TSi_Chris]

Originally posted by TSi999
How will it be cheaper Chris?? A 2nd gen B Eclipse GS-T usually goes for around 7-9K from what ive seen where the GS-X models are bringing in around 4-5,000 more dollars!!

I was talking about once you get into modded, you will go faster for cheaper w/ the awd. I wasnt talking about the price you pay for the car, my bad for the confusion.

 

[boostedinaz]

It all depends on what YOU want. Sure and AWD will beat you at the track and you will beat it on the freeway, and a truck will tow more than you. So what. If you dont tow then you dont need a truck. If you are at the track all the time then an AWD would be easier to get better time slips. If you see alot of people on the freeway go FWD. There is no limit to anything until you make it the limit. A friend of mine has a Z28 and he is happy with mid 12's and 330 WHP, thats his limit. His friend has a SC Z28 that puts 650 WHP and gets squirly at the freeway at 90 MPH and he wants more.

Find what you want and go with that.

Michael

 

[Eclipsed]

Originally posted by boostedinaz
It all depends on what YOU want. Sure and AWD will beat you at the track and you will beat it on the freeway, and a truck will tow more than you. So what. If you dont tow then you dont need a truck. If you are at the track all the time then an AWD would be easier to get better time slips. If you see alot of people on the freeway go FWD. There is no limit to anything until you make it the limit. A friend of mine has a Z28 and he is happy with mid 12's and 330 WHP, thats his limit. His friend has a SC Z28 that puts 650 WHP and gets squirly at the freeway at 90 MPH and he wants more.

Find what you want and go with that.

Michael

Exactly. Some people just dont get that there will be better cars out there. So what. Get done what YOU want and be fine. If you dont go to the track then go FWD.

Im just sick of these debates/fights/arguements within DSMs. FWD against AWD. N/T against Turbo. Guys, we got enough drama dealing with the domestics and honda guys. Lets keep it together.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by Eclipsed
Exactly. Some people just dont get that there will be better cars out there. So what. Get done what YOU want and be fine. If you dont go to the track then go FWD.

Im just sick of these debates/fights/arguements within DSMs. FWD against AWD. N/T against Turbo. Guys, we got enough drama dealing with the domestics and honda guys. Lets keep it together.

True, true... lets stop arguing... everybody knows FWD is the best so lets all just get along. :laugh:

 

[xxrealmsxx]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
True, true... lets stop arguing... everybody knows FWD is the best so lets all just get along. :laugh:

hehehehe

i didnt want to start an argument guys just wanted to read everyone elses thoughts through a little discussion. Lets just say i learned a few things thanks for the input all.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by boostedinaz
It all depends on what YOU want. Sure and AWD will beat you at the track and you will beat it on the freeway, and a truck will tow more than you. So what. If you dont tow then you dont need a truck. If you are at the track all the time then an AWD would be easier to get better time slips. If you see alot of people on the freeway go FWD. There is no limit to anything until you make it the limit. A friend of mine has a Z28 and he is happy with mid 12's and 330 WHP, thats his limit. His friend has a SC Z28 that puts 650 WHP and gets squirly at the freeway at 90 MPH and he wants more.

Find what you want and go with that.

Michael

Arguing about AWD vs. FWD is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded.

 

[fwdtsi]

That joke was funny a year ago.

 

[EuroGSTSpyder]

I am totally happy with my FWD......and I got some good mods to it ...Not the most and certainly not the best but still some power and I am totally happy.Yes there is traction control problems sometimes.....but how often do I run at the trax to start with? Not many..and I can still spank alot of cars on the highway...

I think this discussion on AWD vs FWD is way outa proportion most of the times. Get what ya want and be happy with it.If youre not..then sell and trade for something else....simple as that.