fuel pump rewire ?

[kreepscort]

Well Im doing my fuel pump rewiring today and using the directions from this site:

http://www.raktron.com/fuel/rewire5.html

The only thing I've noticed is that on other website instructions they switch the 87 and 30 pins on the relay. The raktron directions say to use 87 for the power feed from battery, and the wire from the connector goes to the 30 pin. In other directions they say to do the opposite, 87 for connector pin and 30 for battery power feed wire. Is there some explanation for this or does it just not really matter wich one I use? I want to do it rite the first time. Hope someone can answer this, thanks!

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

I assume those are the terminals that are connected when power is applied. if that's the case it doesn't matter. It's not like electricity is directional.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

30 is actually the primary side (to battery) of the relay. 87 is the normally open secondary side (to device), while 87A is the normally closed secondary side (to device).

However, as stated, from an electrical flow standpoint it doesn't matter as long as you hook up to "30" and "87".

30 - feed wire from battery
87A - Not used
87 - when cutting stock 12V pump wire, this is to the pump
86 - when cutting stock 12V pump wire, this is to the car
85 - ground

But if you want to do it correctly............hook it up as shown above and here (relay wires hooks up in the same fashion no matter what car, just the car end of things might differ):

http://vfaq.com/mods/pump-relay.html

 

[kreepscort]

Ok then, I knew there had to be a reason, Thanks alot guys!!!

 

[WHITE GST]

30 is actually the primary side (to battery) of the relay. 87 is the normally open secondary side (to device), while 87A is the normally closed secondary side (to device).

However, as stated, from an electrical flow standpoint it doesn't matter as long as you hook up to "30" and "87".

30 - feed wire from battery
87A - Not used
87 - when cutting stock 12V pump wire, this is to the pump
86 - when cutting stock 12V pump wire, this is to the car
85 - ground

But if you want to do it correctly............hook it up as shown above and here (relay wires hooks up in the same fashion no matter what car, just the car end of things might differ):

http://vfaq.com/mods/pump-relay.html

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO THE ORIGINAL GROUND WIRE AT ALL RIGHT? JUST CUT THE POWER WIRE?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

The ground wire is not called out to do anything with; however, the ground is as important as the "hot" wire and as susceptible to current overload. The main reason you upgrade the OEM feed is amp flow and distance over a "too small" wire for the application. The ground travels the same distance as the "hot" wire does.

When I did mine I cut the ground short (6-8") and attached it to the structure. Be sure to sand/grind away any paint/coating for a good ground.

 

[WHITE GST]

The ground wire is not called out to do anything with; however, the ground is as important as the "hot" wire and as susceptible to current overload. The main reason you upgrade the OEM feed is amp flow and distance over a "too small" wire for the application. The ground travels the same distance as the "hot" wire does.

When I did mine I cut the ground short (6-8") and attached it to the structure. Be sure to sand/grind away any paint/coating for a good ground.

I rewired my pump yesterday but i din't touch the ground wire, i guess i'm going to cut it and attach the pump side wire to the same place i got the ground for the relay,

THANKS!!

 

[4wd-Eclipse]

I highly recommend adding 20A or 30A fuse between the battery and pin# 30 of relay.

 

[WHITE GST]

I highly recommend adding 20A or 30A fuse between the battery and pin# 30 of relay.

I'm using a 15A right now but i'll put in a 25A tonight,,

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP, EVERY ONE!!

 

[DSMunknown]

I know this is a slightly old thread, but I wanted to add a few things to it.

Just finished my fuel pump rewire yesterday. I also used the Rakton guidelines. Nice write-up BTW. Thank you Mister Mark Purney. You have made it nice-n-easy for us many lost souls.

Anyways, I just had a few questions:


Is the 2G Turbo Spyder fuel pump assembly compatible with the 2G Turbo FWD Coupe? I ask this only because I noticed (as some of you may have) that the FP connector is centered nicely in the middle of the plate, and is in a nice reachable direction. So I am wondering if I could possibly switch out my current FP assembly for one from a 2G Spyder. Here is a picture from a 2G Turbo Syder just for reference (you can also see it in the Raktron link provided).

Now I have already taken out my own FP assembly when I installed a Lancer Evolution VIII FP, but I never really took the time to examine the position of the connector and if (and how) it could be changed to my liking.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Now I also noticed in this photo (and during the install) that part of the original wires were utilized (both the positive and ground wires on the white FP connector). Has anyone taken the time to fully replace this small section during the rewiring process? If not, why not? I would do it myself (or at least give it an attempt) but my DSM is a DD. Maybe if I were able to get my hands on an extra FP connector I would give it a go. Obviously, that little section of wiring isn't too much of a restriction, but it's still a restriction nevertheless.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Finally, what's the general rule regarding the grounding wire distance between the connection and the body frame? Is it something like 12-18 inches (maximum length) that is recommended? (That is to say, 12-18 inches or shorter, with shorter being prefered.) I can't recall. Anyways, I think it's a good little fact to remember when doing this install. Something to keep in the back of your mind.


Now it's time for some random comments.

After I finished the install, the car started up fine and I took it for some "spirited driving". On the drive I noticed I could hear the FP and the notorious "whine". I never ever heard this before the rewire. Keep in mind that my back seat was still down in my basement, and the cover plate was just dangling in the wind (both before the rewiring process and after). I just thought it would be interesting to note this for future reference. Perhaps I won't hear it once the cover plate is properly reinstalled and the rear seat is put back in.

I would also like to stress another point, which Mr. Purney neglected to mention ---> utilize soldering flux! Read more here about some of my views on the importance of soldering flux.

As for finding an appropriate grounding point for the 2G Turbo FWD Coupes, I suggest drilling a small hole near the edge of the cover plate access area (you know, the big hole right under the cover plate). Find an appropriate nut and bolt that will fit through, and there you go.

If you're desparate and are running short on time like I was, you can try something else. There are two black brackets holding the bottom of the right rear seat back rest to the body. Loosen one of the 12mm bolts, shove the grounding connector under there, and tighten the bolt back down. (Make sure it's nice and tight; you don't want it to fall out.) This is what I did for a temporary setup. Obviously, I plan on going back and doing it right, but for now it works. (Maybe I'll throw up a photo later if I get a chance, and you'll see what I'm talking about.)

Hope that helps.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Is the 2G Turbo Spyder fuel pump assembly compatible with the 2G Turbo FWD Coupe?

Couldn't say. But I can say that on MY 98 GS-T the FP assembly had a pressure sensor on top along with the feed connection, maybe that's why the feed is off to the side...IDK.

Now I also noticed in this photo (and during the install) that part of the original wires were utilized (both the positive and ground wires on the white FP connector). Has anyone taken the time to fully replace this small section during the rewiring process? If not, why not? I would do it myself (or at least give it an attempt) but my DSM is a DD. Maybe if I were able to get my hands on an extra FP connector I would give it a go. Obviously, that little section of wiring isn't too much of a restriction, but it's still a restriction nevertheless.

I personally have NOT, and would not even bother....track car maybe, but not a DD. The main reason to upgrade the wires to as close to the pump connector as possible is for voltage drop. The smaller OEM wiring is just not large enough to push the amperage required to run the pump at higher revs/flow at such a distance. However, as long as you're within say 2-6 inches you should be fine for DD/occasional track days.

Finally, what's the general rule regarding the grounding wire distance between the connection and the body frame? Is it something like 12-18 inches (maximum length) that is recommended? (That is to say, 12-18 inches or shorter, with shorter being prefered.) I can't recall. Anyways, I think it's a good little fact to remember when doing this install. Something to keep in the back of your mind.

You could actually run the ground (same size as the feed wire) all the way back to the firewall grounding point if that's what you wanted to do. Although most people just "nail-it" close to the pump. Just make sure you've cleaned up to the bare metal before attaching the ground. Plus it's not a bad idea to primer the area after the ground is attached to reduce any rust that may appear.

After I finished the install, the car started up fine and I took it for some "spirited driving". On the drive I noticed I could hear the FP and the notorious "whine". I never ever heard this before the rewire. Keep in mind that my back seat was still down in my basement, and the cover plate was just dangling in the wind (both before the rewiring process and after). I just thought it would be interesting to note this for future reference. Perhaps I won't hear it once the cover plate is properly reinstalled and the rear seat is put back in.

The reason most people hear a "whine" after the re-wire is generally due to running the "feed" wire next to the speaker wires. The speaker wires WILL pick up voltage if the power wire is not in some loom or separated from the speaker wires somehow.

I would also like to stress another point, which Mr. Purney neglected to mention ---> utilize soldering flux! Read more here about some of my views on the importance of soldering flux.

As for finding an appropriate grounding point for the 2G Turbo FWD Coupes, I suggest drilling a small hole near the edge of the cover plate access area (you know, the big hole right under the cover plate). Find an appropriate nut and bolt that will fit through, and there you go.

Good points!

 

[steve]

Make sure to use only rosin based flux for electrical connections. The welding fluxes and plumbing fluxes can be corrosive and will damage your wiring over time.

Steve

 

[DSMunknown]

You could actually run the ground (same size as the feed wire) all the way back to the firewall grounding point if that's what you wanted to do. Although most people just "nail-it" close to the pump. Just make sure you've cleaned up to the bare metal before attaching the ground. Plus it's not a bad idea to primer the area after the ground is attached to reduce any rust that may appear.

I was under the understanding that a maximum distance between the negative terminal and grounding point was to be kept at a certain distance. I must have heard wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I was going to mention scraping off any paint or coating to get down to the bare metal for a solid grounding point, but I assumed everyone knew that. Thanks for the little side note.

The reason most people hear a "whine" after the re-wire is generally due to running the "feed" wire next to the speaker wires. The speaker wires WILL pick up voltage if the power wire is not in some loom or separated from the speaker wires somehow.

Hmmm. I'll see what I can do about that. Maybe rerouting the wire or encasing the wire with some sort of protective harness will do the trick.

The reason I mentioned that was because I have constantly been saying the OEM Lancer Evolution VIII fuel pumps are extremely quiet and do not whine, like some of the Walbro 190 and 255lph pumps tend to do. I'll see if I can't "fix" this minor issue and see what I can come up with.

Make sure to use only rosin based flux for electrical connections. The welding fluxes and plumbing fluxes can be corrosive and will damage your wiring over time.

Steve

Thanks for that clarification Steve. It's an important one. Again, I made the mistake of assuming. I assumed people understood that certain types of soldering jobs required certain types of solder (and thus the same would go for certain types of soldering flux). Thanks again for that important note.

 

[UofACATS]

.. the OEM Lancer Evolution VIII fuel pumps are extremely quiet and do not whine, like some of the Walbro pumps tend to do.

You are right.

I installed an evo9 pump this afternoon. The loudness was about the same as stock, just sounded a little "different." I bet in your case, the difference is because the cover was not on, which also means your back seat lower cushion is not there, which had it been present, would further muffle any pump whine.

Did you run the car with the seat and cover removed to gauge the loudness difference once the new pump was installed?

Is your pump rewired?


Really, for me, it's not a discernable difference.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I was under the understanding that a maximum distance between the negative terminal and grounding point was to be kept at a certain distance. I must have heard wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

Probably just got confused or led down the wrong path with the difference between sensor wiring and general electrical wiring.

General electrical wiring such as fuel pump, stereo, amp, lights, etc use a "floating" ground that basically means you just "nail-it" where-ever you can...the car's made of metal and it will find it's way back so long as the connection is good.

Sensor wiring is a bit different and more susceptible to wire lengths between the feed, ground, and signal wires due a lot to the different resistance characteristics between length, gauge, wire type, etc.

 

[tsimiz]

Subscribed

 

[SoonToBeDSM06]

I am about to install a supra pump in my tank so would I need a larger fuse since they tend to require more current than most of the denso pumps?

 

[DSMunknown]

You are right.

I installed an evo9 pump this afternoon. The loudness was about the same as stock, just sounded a little "different." I bet in your case, the difference is because the cover was not on, which also means your back seat lower cushion is not there, which had it been present, would further muffle any pump whine.

Yeah, I already stated that my rear seat is out of the car, and the cover plate is still just dangling around. I'm sure I'll hardly be able to hear it once I get the cover plate properly secured and rear seat reinstalled.

Did you run the car with the seat and cover removed to gauge the loudness difference once the new pump was installed?

I'm sure it was in the back of my mind, but no I did not. I was basically fighting against time and the sunset (working in the dark sucks bigtime). Sure, I could have pulled it into the garage, but there is no match for adequate sunlight that streams through all the windows and makes it easier to see. Which is precisely why I was in a hurry. It's amazing how well a soldering gun works when left plugged in for over 20 minutes.

I also couldn't find an adequate little nook for the fuse relay to hide in, so that kept me from properly bolting on the cover plate, and thus preventing me from installing the rear seat.

Is your pump rewired?

Uhhhhmmm... yes.

 

[Locke]

Make sure to use only rosin based flux for electrical connections. The welding fluxes and plumbing fluxes can be corrosive and will damage your wiring over time.

Steve

There is also rosin core solder, which doesn't need additional flux. It doesn't cost much more than solid solder.

 

[steve]

What I wrote applies equally to standalone flux and well as flux cored solder.

I was commenting on the prior posts and the included link that sadly quotes a reference to welding/brazing flux.

Steve

 

[Locke]

I was merely pointing out to everybody else the availability of rosin core solder, as opposed to buying a bottle of rosin flux separately to use with solid solder wire. I quoted you only because you brought up the differences in fluxes, and the need to use the correct type.

I suppose I should have been more complete in my previous post.

 

[steve]

Got it. My mistake for thinking you were trying to correct something I said.

 

[UofACATS]

Yeah, I already stated that my rear seat is out of the car, and the cover plate is still just dangling around. I'm sure I'll hardly be able to hear it once I get the cover plate properly secured and rear seat reinstalled.

Yes, but then you also stated,

The reason I mentioned that was because I have constantly been saying the OEM Lancer Evolution VIII fuel pumps are extremely quiet and do not whine, like some of the Walbro 190 and 255lph pumps tend to do. I'll see if I can't "fix" this minor issue and see what I can come up with.

I guess you were speaking of the wire, not the actual pump. Looks like I misunderstood.

As a suggestion, you could wait until the cover is replaced, and the rear seat is back in place before attempting to fix any whine.

Uhhhhmmm... yes.

Just trying to help, I have an evo pump in my car and no whine.

 

[DSMunknown]

Thought I would come back and throw up some photos like I promised. Click below.





The photo below shows where I shoved my ground wire down, and it also shows how the plate was not securely bolted down. This is how I drove around for about a week or so.

LINK 1

This next photo shows how cluttered the fuel pump assembly area was.

LINK 2

This one is a close up of the same area.

LINK 3

Here are a few photos of the relay and all the twisted wiring (I know, shame on me). Remember, I took these photos about a week after my first try doing the rewiring process. The tape was just not staying on. Just think if I didn't care to go back and fix my mistakes and left this entire area alone for a long while.

LINK 4
LINK 5
LINK 6
LINK 7
LINK 8
LINK 9

What did I learn about my first try? To leave plenty of "slack." You can always cut off any excess, but adding on more wiring is much more of a PITA.

I also learned that giving the FP plug connector plenty of room is a good thing. Having the relay closely connected to the white plug isn't a good thing for two reasons. First, the relay becomes just one more thing to work around when taking the FP plug off or pushing it back on. Secondly, having the relay sit right on top of the FP assembly will not allow you to bolt down the cover plate (which is the issue I ran into). When using longer wiring between the relay and everything else, you can then afford to shove the relay aside to wherever you please without issue. Here are some photos with my second attempt.

LINK 10
LINK 11
LINK 12
LINK 13

As you can see, I took my time. In the Rakton guide, the author states that standard eletrical tape (when properly applied) will seal and hold just as well as using heat shrink. IMHO heat shrink holds the slight advantage over eletrical tape (to say the least). Maybe it was because I was in a bit of a rush, or I didn't take my time to properly wrap the relay connections with the tape, or maybe it was because the area of the relay is very tight and trying to wrap tape with three other prongs in the way isn't as easy as it looks. Whatever the reason, I chose to take my effin' time and use shrink wrap all the way around the entire rewiring process. And look what patience and diligence got me - a very nice clean setup.

BTW in the four photos above, I gave myself about 10 inches of slack - plenty of room to make minor errors or to stuff the relay at almost any angle under the rear seat I chose.

Also, the relay in the four photos above is from NAPA. I chose to go with a universal relay. The part number is AR167SB. I initially went to Radio Shack (per the instructions) and purchased that relay, but decided instead that the NAPA universal relay would make for a much cleaner install. Also, I only found one of the five items (that the the install guide calls for) at my local Radio Shack (one of those small stores in the mall). Perhaps I would have had better luck going to a large Radio Shack (one of those "Super Stores"), but the Radio Shack customer service representative told me I probably wouldn't have much better luck finding the other parts. So I suggest your local NAPA parts store instead.

 

[thekellbeast]

I didn't really have much of a problem fitting the relay under the cover. I gave myself about a foot of slack in the new 10ga power and ground lines that went to the relay. Then I found a spot for the relay to the side, and coiled the extra wire underneath the metal.

The one thing I didn't do though, is run a new wire for the ground from the plug. I figured that the ground isn't that important, but now it looks like it is. I'll have to pull the cover and redo the ground. I'll take tons of pics when I do it.