FP2x worth the extra money over 272's

[Slippi84]

Ok this is pretty straight forward. I'm trying to make aroun 500whp and cams are the last part I need bolt on wise to get there but I don't know if it's worth it to get fp2x cams over dks 272's. I would use the dks 272's without buying any additional parts as my head is a rebuilt one and the spings and such are new, but if I go fp2x I will have to get manley springs. I did the math and between the spings and the cams it's close to 600 bucs for the fp2x setup and and i can get dks 272's for 365 shipped. In a nut shell are the fp2x's worth the 250 bucs for a 500whp car reving to 8k tops.

 

[talon1987]

where can you get the hks cams for 365 ... that sounds cheap is that a pair or each ??

 

[1fast97gsx]

Yea dude, 272s generally are around 550 shipped. That means a $50 difference...

 

[GVR4592]

He said Dks cams not Hks cams. As in ffwd regrinds.

 

[nanokpsi]

If all you want is 500whp, then you don't need the FP2xs. I would never run regrinds though. Not only are they going to wear (it will probably take more than 1 year) but the will not have any reasle value. You can pick up a good set of used cams and almost sell them for what you paid for them some time down the road.

 

[Slippi84]

One these are DKS 272's from ffw and they are 365 shipped with a 40 dollar core charge.
Two I'm not askin you guys if you like regrinds these cams have already been tested and work just fine if I go this route I will not be worried about resale aor longevity as both satisfy me in both areas.

The question is are the fp2x's that much better than the 272's or even needed to get to the 500whp mark. 272's have been on fast cars and have done nice but if fp2x's are nigh and day better then it's worth it to bite the bullet.

 

[Dark_Horse]

There's a graph floating around this site somewhere of the FP2 cams vs the 272s. The 272s were better on the bottom end...but above 6700rpm, the FP2s started to gain and by 8,000rpm were about 25whp higher.

With the FP2x grind the bottom end won't be lost (or won't be lost as much) plus you'll have more power up top. I've never seen a graph comparing FP2s to FP2xs, so I don't know how much more top end you'll get. Is it worth it to spend an additional $400 for this increase in top end? That's up to you.

Or...You could try out the FP3 setup since plain ol' Crower springs will work just fine. I know their site says it's for stroker motors, but since you're only reving to 8,000rpm it should work just fine on a 2.0l. Lots of people are running FP3s on the 2.0 with no problems. FWIW the FP3s out muscle the regular FP2s almost everywhere in the powerband.

Link to FP3 vs FP2
Link to HKS 272 vs FP2 Go to post # 86

 

[nanokpsi]

Two I'm not askin you guys if you like regrinds these cams have already been tested and work just fine if I go this route I will not be worried about resale aor longevity as both satisfy me in both areas.

They've been tested and proven....to mechanically work. That's about it. I havn't seen any dyno graphs with them, cam comparisons, etc. PLus they haven't been around long enough to say they are proven to last. However, Web's cams were initially regrinds and they wore out. Reground cams just aren't as strong as OEM cams, or cams made from a new billiet core. That is a fact.

Since there are no dyno comparisons, the only thing people have to legitimately go in is their reliability. Your asking people to speculate here.

Mod cheap, mod twice. Why do you think that regrinds aren't prolific in any other moderen day tuners car? You think it might have somehting to do with a vast majority of DSMers being cheap skates?

 

[talon1987]

o my fault thaught he said hks

 

[44pirate]

I ran the HKS 272 in my 2G, now I have the COMP 200, which are the FP2. I have any dyno sheet or hearsay, what I can offer is my buttdyno point of view=alot more topend from FP2.

 

[Slippi84]

They've been tested and proven....to mechanically work. That's about it. I havn't seen any dyno graphs with them, cam comparisons, etc. PLus they haven't been around long enough to say they are proven to last. However, Web's cams were initially regrinds and they wore out. Reground cams just aren't as strong as OEM cams, or cams made from a new billiet core. That is a fact.

Since there are no dyno comparisons, the only thing people have to legitimately go in is their reliability. Your asking people to speculate here.

Mod cheap, mod twice. Why do you think that regrinds aren't prolific in any other moderen day tuners car? You think it might have somehting to do with a vast majority of DSMers being cheap skates?

Forget the fact that i'm talkin about dks and not HKS. The point is are fp2x's worth the investiment over 272's performance wise. I think I'm just gonna go fp2x as I don't want to lose what little low end power i'll have and this is my dd.


Edit By the way thanks to the guys who left useful input

 

[nanokpsi]

Forget the fact that i'm talkin about dks and not HKS. The point is are fp2x's worth the investiment over 272's performance wise. I think I'm just gonna go fp2x as I don't want to lose what little low end power i'll have and this is my dd.


Edit By the way thanks to the guys who left useful input

If thats the case, I would say the fp2xs will give you a nice performance edge. Also, if you will be limited to around 500whp for one reason or another, then the bigger cams will let you do it with less boost. Plus you will come away with a little more power on pump gas as well.

 

[diambo4life]

I run a set of HKS 272's and stock valvetrain in my car revving to 8,300rpm. Why? Because they have been PROVEN to work well. I am not biting on the FP cam craze just yet. Isn't there a guy who swapped his 272 cams out for some FPX cams that were supposed to make more power and gained NOTHING??? Nanokpsi may know who I'm talking about. I think his name on here is Algatan. All I'm trying to say is that I have NOT yet seen a back to back dyno comparison on a car with known mods where the FP cams made appreciably more power than the 272s.

 

[Dark_Horse]

All I'm trying to say is that I have NOT yet seen a back to back dyno comparison on a car with known mods where the FP cams made appreciably more power than the 272s.

Did you not read my post above where I have the link to the back to back dyno test for HKS 272 & FP2?

 

[Slippi84]

Thing is I have been reading about retarding the exhaust cam a tooth and getting like 3-400rpms sooner spool .

With that said I'm thinkin that fp2's and not fp2x's would be a better choice because the fp2's will give me plenty of top end for my goal and with the retarding of the exhaust cam I woul dsee fp2x typ spool down low and not have to by new springs like it has been said hks272/fp2's are good with stock stuff

 

[vintagemuscle]

They've been tested and proven....to mechanically work. That's about it. I havn't seen any dyno graphs with them, cam comparisons, etc. PLus they haven't been around long enough to say they are proven to last. However, Web's cams were initially regrinds and they wore out. Reground cams just aren't as strong as OEM cams, or cams made from a new billiet core. That is a fact.
Since there are no dyno comparisons, the only thing people have to legitimately go in is their reliability. Your asking people to speculate here.

Mod cheap, mod twice. Why do you think that regrinds aren't prolific in any other moderen day tuners car? You think it might have somehting to do with a vast majority of DSMers being cheap skates?

i think it has more to do with young kids who just want to say that they have "HKS" cams. the main reason these "tuner" aftermarket parts are so expensive is because of dumb kids who will pay anything for a name. regrinds have been around forever and have been proven to last as long as any other cams. since one company made faulty regrind cams you are going to bash a whole different company. where are you getting this misinformation? you are basically saying spend twice the price for the exact same product minus the fancy "HKS" name. do you also advocate the purchase of HKS turbo's and spend 2 to 3 times as much when you can get the same turbo without the fancy name for much less. sure the HKS cams are proven but until you give me proof that the DKS cams are crap then don't post useless information.

 

[diambo4life]

Did you not read my post above where I have the link to the back to back dyno test for HKS 272 & FP2?

Did it sound like I did not? Did you dyno HKS 272's and FPX cams back to back on your own car? Or do you base your claims from a vendor's "testing" of their own product?

I am more interested in seeing what a regular everyday DSMer here gained from switching the cams, not some fluff dyno chart of a car that we do not know anything about. Sorry that chart does not do anything for me. I can show you TWO people on here making 500whp+ who either lost power on the FP cams or didn't gain anything by switching to them from the HKS pieces.

People buy HKS cams becasue they have been PROVEN! Namebrand and price aside. I will pay more for them ANY DAY since I know what I'm getting.

I am not saying HKS cams are the best, just stating that I haven't see anything that convinces me that the FP2 cams are better.

 

[Dark_Horse]

I base my claims on the fact that FP is a very reputable vendor and I take them at their word. Since I have never had HKS cams, nor would/am I be willing to pay $600 to get a set of 272s, I will never be able to dyno test both.

If the data was really unreliable or had been tweaked, wouldn't they have showed that FP2 cams whooped the 272s over the entire RPM range and not just above 6700rpm?

Regarding your 2 people that lost HP or stayed the same, do they have dyno proof?

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah call me dumb but I was never considering authentic HKS 272's. DKS 272's = same cam less money

 

[nanokpsi]

Regarding your 2 people that lost HP or stayed the same, do they have dyno proof?

It is actually a thread on the private dsmlink forums. However, it is believed that his turbo is maxed out at his point (temps, etc) so there isn't any more room for power.

 

[diambo4life]

I base my claims on the fact that FP is a very reputable vendor and I take them at their word. Since I have never had HKS cams, nor would/am I be willing to pay $600 to get a set of 272s, I will never be able to dyno test both.

If the data was really unreliable or had been tweaked, wouldn't they have showed that FP2 cams whooped the 272s over the entire RPM range and not just above 6700rpm?

Regarding your 2 people that lost HP or stayed the same, do they have dyno proof?

Oh Yes..both were dynoed. One of those guys has a 2.3 with a 3065 (as quoted by nanokpsi above) and the other guy had a 2.4 with a T67. The 3065 didn't not see any gains *AT ALL*, and the T67 guy actually lost power. Only changes made were swapping of the cams. Not saying FP is bad, but sometimes I think people just seem to bite at anything that's offered out there. Personally, knowing what I know, if I was to buy another set of cams today, I would make the same purchase.

 

[nanokpsi]

Oh Yes..both were dynoed. One of those guys has a 2.3 with a 3065 (as quoted by nanokpsi above) and the other guy had a 2.4 with a T67. The 3065 didn't not see any gains *AT ALL*, and the T67 guy actually lost power. Only changes made were swapping of the cams. Not saying FP is bad, but sometimes I think people just seem to bite at anything that's offered out there. Personally, knowing what I know, if I was to buy another set of cams today, I would make the same purchase.

Who lost power with them? I've certainly never seen that one before. I believe the 3065 car was out of turbo for his climate/elevation.

 

[bluegs-t]

Who lost power with them? I've certainly never seen that one before. I believe the 3065 car was out of turbo for his climate/elevation.

also diambo4life, was the tune on the car with the t67 with 272's, the same tune with fp2x's? i would ask the guy if he was tuning all out with the fp's. we all know that different parts will require different tunes. also, what was the temperature of both dyno runs, and was it the same dyno used? what was the humidity like? were the cams even swapped out on the same day? get the guy to post in this thread his set-up and answers to my questions with dyno charts. then, and only then, are we going to make a rationale decision to believe said statement. you also stated something about hks's being PROVEN, what makes you think that the fp's haven't proven themselves?

 

[logic]

(Edit: removed brain fart.)

Have you emailed Forced Performance about them (including relevant details about your setup)? They've been quite helpful with me in the past regarding products they sell.

 

[Slippi84]

The "FPx"-series cams are stroker cams. Good choice for a 2.3L or 2.4L, but you might consider sticking with the FP2s, HKS 272s, COMP 101200s, etc. for a 2.0L.

Have you emailed Forced Performance about them (including relevant details about your setup)? They've been quite helpful with me in the past regarding products they sell.

This is false. The fpx series cams were made to increase ramp speed and be used with dual valve springs setups. Dsm-onster has posted about his fp2x's before and has said he spools faster than stock cams and pulls up top like a raped ape. FP3/3x's and 4/4x's are stroker cams and even with that said I have seen guys run plain fp3's on a 2.0 but I wouldn't go there with those.


To everyone saying that they don't believe that the fp series cams make more power than the hks 272's and such I'm sorry but no matter what a 25whp diffrence is gonna be seen on a daily car or a track car. Of course not as drastic perhaps but any cam that can make 25whp more than another cam is definately better in my book. I rev high enough to see these gains as I will shift around 8k. If you shift at or before the stock revlimiter then ok maybe they're not for you but if you shift higher I def think that either fp2's or fp2x's will be a better choice then more expensive and less power producing HKS 272's. WHen your dealing with DKS 272's then you have a dilema as is the reason I started this thread. Is the $360 plus core charge of $40 bucks w/o springs or retainers($400) worth buying over the $441(shipped) & $139(shipped) for a grand total of $580 simply to save a buck???